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Toto deVeer

Abundant Cheap Energy...

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Is the world still operating on 19th century energy technology? Well, considering the dependence on oil that most of the world economy exhibits, one would conclude so. In essence it is a 150 year old economic model that is badly in need of revision. The countries that are still building out their economies on this basis, including China, for example, may find themselves leap-frogged by new energy technologies that are around the corner. Much like the mobile phone has eliminated the need for extensive wired infrastructure, and airplanes have eliminated the need for fixed long distance travel routes, new energy sources will also permit radical transformations in the way economies operate around the world.

An amazing new scientific breakthrough was reported on November 17fh at CERN....the capture and brief storage of antimatter. Why is this important? NASA is developing antimatter-powered manned spacecraft that, with just one-millionth of a gram of antimatter will be able to travel to Mars. With 10 grams this trip could be reduced to one month. At the moment, with the best available technology, the trip requires 11 months. The implications for power generation, even distributed power generation in the future are enormous.

Antimatter is the holy grail of energy sources. It is potentially infinite in quantity.

Matter-antimatter reactions are 1,000 times more powerful than the nuclear fission produced in nuclear power plants and 300 times more powerful than nuclear fusion energy.

The major drawback with antimatter to date has been the ability to capture it. But CERN are illustrating that it can be done.

As we say, there is no matter, there is only energy.:

CERN Press release

Geneva, 17 November 2011. The ALPHA experiment at CERN1 has taken an important step forward in developing techniques to understand one of the Universe’s open questions: is there a difference between matter and antimatter? In a paper published in Nature today, the collaboration shows that it has successfully produced and trapped atoms of antihydrogen. This development opens the path to new ways of making detailed measurements of antihydrogen, which will in turn allow scientists to compare matter and antimatter.

HowStuffWorks

In October 2000, NASA scientists announced early designs for an antimatter engine that could generate enormous thrust with only small amounts of antimatter fueling it. The amount of antimatter needed to supply the engine for a one-year trip to Mars could be as little as a millionth of a gram, according to a report in that month's issue of Journal of Propulsion and Power.

Matter-antimatter propulsion will be the most efficient propulsion ever developed, because 100 percent of the mass of the matter and antimatter is converted into energy. When matter and antimatter collide, the energy released by their annihilation releases about 10 billion times the energy that chemical energy such as hydrogen and oxygen combustion, the kind used by the space shuttle, releases. Matter-antimatter reactions are 1,000 times more powerful than the nuclear fission produced in nuclear power plants and 300 times more powerful than nuclear fusion energy. So, matter-antimatter engines have the potential to take us farther with less fuel. The problem is creating and storing the antimatter.

Edited by Toto deVeer

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The enormity and importance of this very first step cannot be overstated.

I think you've made a pretty good stab at it.

Antimatter is not an energy resource, it's a potential energy storage technology.

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Doesn't antimatter require energy to create it? In other words it is like super-dooper battery; an energy storage device, not a source.

EDIT: Beaten to it by mirage!

That's a good question. They've produced anti-hydrogen. How this could be manufactured is another issue, but the ability to produce and ever so briefly store it has been illustrated.

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I think you've made a pretty good stab at it.

Antimatter is not an energy resource, it's a potential energy storage technology.

Yes. Plus storage can be a bit tricky. Would make for some pretty effective weapons, since an AM-tipped sniper bullet could take out a fleet aircraft carrier..

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Doesn't antimatter require energy to create it? In other words it is like super-dooper battery; an energy storage device, not a source.

EDIT: Beaten to it by mirage!

well, yeah, and 60bn money things.

question?

if anti matter is outside of this universe, how did they know they even captured any at all.....or maybe they just htink they did....gotta show something for the BS experiment they are doing.

creating conditions at the beginning of the universe....give me a break.

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As an aside, as a kid I remeber writing a sci-fi story for my English essay where the ultimate weapon available to the futuristic space infantry was something called a 'MAM' bomb. (Matter-Anti-Matter.) It didn't just destroy worlds; it destroyed solar systems.

I remember a book where the thing was called "contra-terrene"....it led to a fall out of strange black flakes that absorbed all heat and light, that led to a new ice age.

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Yes. Plus storage can be a bit tricky. Would make for some pretty effective weapons, since an AM-tipped sniper bullet could take out a fleet aircraft carrier..

:lol:

Durch's weapon can take out a solar system...

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Find me any system that is loss-less.

They pump huge amounts of energy into their collider to generate and capture this antimatter hydrogen. I suspect the losses in this experiment to be gargantuan.

No solution to energy problem, end of.

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question?

if anti matter is outside of this universe, how did they know they even captured any at all.....or maybe they just htink they did....gotta show something for the BS experiment they are doing.

Then again, who would have thought, in 1950, that by the 1960/70's nuclear fusion could be used for commercial power generation on such a large scale?

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Find me any system that is loss-less.

They pump huge amounts of energy into their collider to generate and capture this antimatter hydrogen. I suspect the losses in this experiment to be gargantuan.

No solution to energy problem, end of.

Just 30 years ago a reasonably capable computer would have taken up an entire building.

Now computers that are thousands of times more powerful can be carried in a briefcase.

In another 10 or 20 years you will have pocket computers that are as intelligent as human beings.

Think about it...

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well, yeah, and 60bn money things.

question?

if anti matter is outside of this universe, how did they know they even captured any at all.....or maybe they just htink they did....gotta show something for the BS experiment they are doing.

creating conditions at the beginning of the universe....give me a break.

Well, it isn't "outside this universe", it's all pretty well known stuff. There's just not a lot of it about naturally (some fairly common radioactive decays emit positrons, for example, which fairly obviously annhialiate against the first electron they meet to produce a photon).

The point already made stands though - with no real natural source of antimatter then it's no use as an energy source. It might be useful for spacecraft, if you can generate on Earth then fuel the spacecraft (or better still do it in orbit so it won't blow a huge crater if you get it wrong), providing all the extra mass required to stop it blowing the spacecraft apart doesn't more than make up for the extra energy density of the fuel.

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An amazing new scientific breakthrough was reported on November 17fh at CERN....the capture and brief storage of antimatter. Why is this important? NASA is developing antimatter-powered manned spacecraft that, with just one-millionth of a gram of antimatter will be able to travel to Mars. With 10 grams this trip could be reduced to one month. At the moment, with the best available technology, the trip requires 11 months. The implications for power generation, even distributed power generation in the future are enormous.

Antimatter is the holy grail of energy sources. It is potentially infinite in quantity.

The major drawback with antimatter to date has been the ability to capture it. But CERN are illustrating that it can be done.

As we say, there is no matter, there is only energy.:

Storing anti-matter is one thing, making it is another.

How much energy does it take to make an atom of anti-hydrogen? The minimum amount is half of the energy it releases when it reacts with matter. Which means that you'd have to get that process to be more than 50% efficient to get a net energy gain. I doubt we have anything like that yet ( I'm guessing more like 5% ).

Until we get net energy gain to a positive number all we have only gained ( from an engineering perspective not a scientific one ) is a new high energy density fuel for very expensive applications, like this NASA one you mention. To put things in perspective currently we do not have a cheap way to make hydrocarbons, instead we dig it out of the ground. However unlike hydrocarbons at least there is potential for a net gain.

Secondly and less importantly, they only captured a single anti-hydrogen atom for 0.2 second. I think this is impressive, but not yet useful in an engineering way.

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Just 30 years ago a reasonably capable computer would have taken up an entire building.

Now computers that are thousands of times more powerful can be carried in a briefcase.

In another 10 or 20 years you will have pocket computers that are as intelligent as human beings.

Think about it...

I have thought about it, those points made are true/quite possible. But any energy source that takes more energy to create the stored potential energy than it can release is useless as an energy source - apart from providing portable power in certain circumstances.

Edited by OnlyMe

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Well, it isn't "outside this universe", it's all pretty well known stuff. There's just not a lot of it about naturally (some fairly common radioactive decays emit positrons, for example, which fairly obviously annhialiate against the first electron they meet to produce a photon).

The point already made stands though - with no real natural source of antimatter then it's no use as an energy source. It might be useful for spacecraft, if you can generate on Earth then fuel the spacecraft (or better still do it in orbit so it won't blow a huge crater if you get it wrong), providing all the extra mass required to stop it blowing the spacecraft apart doesn't more than make up for the extra energy density of the fuel.

so it doesnt exist then?

and they are guessing they had some?

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Just 30 years ago a reasonably capable computer would have taken up an entire building.

Now computers that are thousands of times more powerful can be carried in a briefcase.

In another 10 or 20 years you will have pocket computers that are as intelligent as human beings.

Think about it...

"Hey man, I reckon the 100m sprint world record will be 0.01 seconds in 30 years time"

"How do you figure that? It's 9.5 seconds now."

"Take a look at computers, 30 years ago a reasonably capable computer would have taken up an entire building. Now computers that are thousands of times more powerful can be carried in a briefcase."

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so it doesnt exist then?

and they are guessing they had some?

It exists. It doesn't exist in any decent quantity or for any significant length of time as the stuff we have found has only been made as a result of radioactive decay.

We can make it, by using particle accelerators. It doesn't last long when we do as seen by the quote from the BBC article

The team proved that among their 10 million antiprotons and 700 million positrons, 38 stable atoms of antihydrogen were formed, lasting about two tenths of a second each.

This is a very important piece of research to physicists. But I don't think it is very significant to those concerned with energy generation, the economy or house prices.

Edited by SomethingHasToGive

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We have nuclear submarines that are designed to run on a sealed reactor for their entire service life (many decades). There is no shortage of matter and we (well I don't personnally) have a very comprehensive understanding of spltting atoms. We have not yet fully unleashed the power of nuclear and even with current technology could satisfy our energy demands for at least the next 2,000 years. We'll be turning garbage into viable energy sources in a few hundred years and all zooming around on hover boards. Personally, I'm in no hurry to fire up my laptop on antimatter and am just thankful this one test didn't annhilate us.

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It does exist.

Try here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positron

and here

http://en.wikipedia....sion_tomography

if you wish to educate yourself.

thats not anti matter...thats a thing with an opposite charge.

or is my populist view of anti matter, ie, an equal and opposite that if they came together would cancel out?

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We have nuclear submarines that are designed to run on a sealed reactor for their entire service life (many decades). There is no shortage of matter and we (well I don't personnally) have a very comprehensive understanding of spltting atoms. We have not yet fully unleashed the power of nuclear and even with current technology could satisfy our energy demands for at least the next 2,000 years. We'll be turning garbage into viable energy sources in a few hundred years and all zooming around on hover boards. Personally, I'm in no hurry to fire up my laptop on antimatter and am just thankful this one test didn't annhilate us.

of course it didnt. to produce anti matter then have it "dissappear..with no energy emmssion that didnt blow up the continent ( as claimed it could), means, they didnt produce it.

Or, it has no energy benefit at all....the energies cancel out...leaving......nothing at all.

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  • 246 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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