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PunK BeaR

Parking Rage

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A pensioner has been banned from driving after being filmed on CCTV shunting a car which was blocking access to his garage.

Ronald Pemberton, 83, used his Peugeot to push a Ford Ka which had parked in front of his lock-up.

The incident caused chaos as the Ka was shunted into the road outside a primary school.

Two weeks later he was caught repeating the offence outside Cabot Primary School in St Paul's, Bristol, by pushing a silver Mazda into the road.

Pemberton, of St Paul's, pleaded guilty at Bristol Magistrates' Court earlier this year to dangerous driving for the first incident on November 24, 2009.

He denied the second offence on December 9 last year but was found guilty by a jury.......

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Although this isnt major news, i found it quite interesting as where i live i occasionaly get blocked in by inconsererate drivers. I am often tempted to push them out of the way but have never done it. The reason i haven't is more to do with potentially damaging the other's car rather than the principle of moving anothers car without their consent. I appreciate this guy pushed the car into a busy road next to a school and also supposedly caused some damage. However the articles suggests that the act of pushing another car out of the way is a criminal offence, which is news to me.

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Good on him I say! The ka owner shows a complete disregard for other people's access. I bet the bloke has this every day and something inside finally snapped.

Did anyone notice the class parking on the biz zig-zags by the people-carrier driver?

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If I needed to go somewhere and some idiot had left his car blocking me in, I would have done just the same.

I think the bloke was right, although I would probably have bust the side window of the offending car, taken the handbrake off and rolled it out of the way, as opposed to ramming it with his car.

I suspect the "dangerous driving" bit comes from the fact that he could have pushed the car into the path of another car, or into a pedestrian.

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The fact that he was prosecuted but not the owner of the car causing the blockage is outrageous, but not surprising.

About 3-4 years ago the building with which my house shares a communal driveway providing access to the street was refurbished. Time after time the builders' vehicles would block us in or out, often late into the evening when they went to the pub after work. The police didn't want to know - a civil matter, of course. They didn't even want to know when we told them that builders were coming back from the pub, clearly drunk, and then driving away.

They certainly did want to know, however, after we'd procured a supply of A3 sized sticky labels stating that the vehicle was trespassing on university property (we got them from a friendly porter) and would be clamped if found again, and stuck them over the windscreen. They have a particularly vicious adhesive that only a lot of elbow grease can shift. The bogies warned us that if anything like this happened again, they would begin a criminal damage investigation.

The bottom line - you should be able to do anything you like that is preventing your vehicle from being legally transported from your private land or garage onto the public highway, up to and including blowing the offending car up, just as long your action doesn't endanger other lives or property. This man's action clearly didn't, and he shouldn't have been prosecuted.

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I suspect the dangerous driving bit is attempting to drive through the blue chap....

key the ***t out of the other side next time mate...

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Full Article

Although this isnt major news, i found it quite interesting as where i live i occasionaly get blocked in by inconsererate drivers. I am often tempted to push them out of the way but have never done it. The reason i haven't is more to do with potentially damaging the other's car rather than the principle of moving anothers car without their consent. I appreciate this guy pushed the car into a busy road next to a school and also supposedly caused some damage. However the articles suggests that the act of pushing another car out of the way is a criminal offence, which is news to me.

It doesn't though. He was convicted of dangerous driving, not pushing someone else's car out of the way, it just happened that it was in relation to pushing another car with your own. If he did it under different circumstances he may not have been convicted. There was a similar case a few years back where a woman did the same thing over a parking space argument.

he should have dealt with it by reporting the offending car to the police for obstructing the highway - assuming that the piece of land it was on waspart of the highway.

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The fact that he was prosecuted but not the owner of the car causing the blockage is outrageous, but not surprising.

About 3-4 years ago the building with which my house shares a communal driveway providing access to the street was refurbished. Time after time the builders' vehicles would block us in or out, often late into the evening when they went to the pub after work. The police didn't want to know - a civil matter, of course. They didn't even want to know when we told them that builders were coming back from the pub, clearly drunk, and then driving away.

They certainly did want to know, however, after we'd procured a supply of A3 sized sticky labels stating that the vehicle was trespassing on university property (we got them from a friendly porter) and would be clamped if found again, and stuck them over the windscreen. They have a particularly vicious adhesive that only a lot of elbow grease can shift. The bogies warned us that if anything like this happened again, they would begin a criminal damage investigation.

The bottom line - you should be able to do anything you like that is preventing your vehicle from being legally transported from your private land or garage onto the public highway, up to and including blowing the offending car up, just as long your action doesn't endanger other lives or property. This man's action clearly didn't, and he shouldn't have been prosecuted.

I disagree. What he did was extremely dangerous. He pushed another car into a road. He was unable to control the other car and could have injured or killed someone. There are other ways of dealing with stuff like this.

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Good on him I say! The ka owner shows a complete disregard for other people's access. I bet the bloke has this every day and something inside finally snapped.

Did anyone notice the class parking on the biz zig-zags by the people-carrier driver?

Off the original topic, I thought that when zig-zags were first introduce that parking on the or overtaking on the was a points/endorsement offence?

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I disagree. What he did was extremely dangerous. He pushed another car into a road. He was unable to control the other car and could have injured or killed someone. There are other ways of dealing with stuff like this.

Other effective ways that don't leave you hanging around for ages? Was the other car's handbrake not on? Was there any realistic chance of it rolling off and crashing into someone? Thinking up implausible "what ifs" isn't a way of deciding what's dangerous and what isn't. This blanket danger assumption is one of society's plagues. Another one is the "Must always have someone in authority around to do anything."

The only half reasonable thing I can see, based on that report, that he should be done with is inconveniencing others in turn, although some of that too has to lie on the shoulders of the moron who parked there in the first place. Other people in turn should've shoved the car out of the way when it blocked them, and sod any damage caused to it.

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Because then that's criminal damage and then you're in a whole different place, compared to causing an obstruction.

I once parked in front of a company gate (without knowing). My car was collected from the pound the next day. I didn't begrudge them that at all.

Yes, the law not being aligned with common sense again IMO. It's damage which are the consequences of doing something bloody stupid. Serves him right.

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[quote name=Oh Well :(' timestamp='1289988529' post='2789972]

Spot the white man.

Indeed the old guy has no doubt watched his neighbourhood go down hill and become ethnically cleansend and snapped over the lack of respect and consideration shown by the new arrivals , disgusting decision imo .

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Other effective ways that don't leave you hanging around for ages? Was the other car's handbrake not on? Was there any realistic chance of it rolling off and crashing into someone? Thinking up implausible "what ifs" isn't a way of deciding what's dangerous and what isn't. This blanket danger assumption is one of society's plagues. Another one is the "Must always have someone in authority around to do anything."

The only half reasonable thing I can see, based on that report, that he should be done with is inconveniencing others in turn, although some of that too has to lie on the shoulders of the moron who parked there in the first place. Other people in turn should've shoved the car out of the way when it blocked them, and sod any damage caused to it.

Nope, sorry. I'm not getting into another pointless argument on here about things which are plainly obvious. Pushing an unattended and uncontrolled vehicle into a road (or just about any busy public space) is dangerous. End of. If other people think differnetly then fair enough.

If he had injured or killed someone (however unlilkely that may have been) then no one would be trying to argue that what he did wansn't dangerous and you can't describe something as dangerous based solely on the outcome.

If the guy had tried everything possible to stop it happening then he may have had some legitimate mitigation for what he did. If it is private land were there signs up; was there a sign on his garage door?; had he talked to the owner to get it stopped?; if it's part of the highway then had he reported to the police about obstruction?

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Nope, sorry. I'm not getting into another pointless argument on here about things which are plainly obvious. Pushing an unattended and uncontrolled vehicle into a road (or just about any busy public space) is dangerous. End of. If other people think differnetly then fair enough.

That's dodging the issue. Why is it dangerous? What's so dangerous about it? Did he just shove the car out into a busy road without being able to see what was coming along it? You'd have a point then (I can't actually see the video at the moment, so you may be right). Or would it rely on some unlikely chain of events to stand a chance of hurting someone? How likely was the shoved car to roll off unpredictably on its own? I'm fed up with this blanket "This action is dangerous" attitude.

If he had injured or killed someone (however unlilkely that may have been) then no one would be trying to argue that what he did wansn't dangerous and you can't describe something as dangerous based solely on the outcome.

No, I'm not suggesting at all that it's dependent solely on the outcome. If he had killed or injured someone he might've just been very unlucky. In the same way as you can't assume any particular action is always dangerous, you can't assume that it's always safe. What probablity was there of hurting someone in this action? That's what determines the danger. In the same way as you can do something very dangerous and get lucky you can do something pretty safe and get unlucky. Pogo stick across a minefield and you might get across it alive. Sit quietly at home and you might get hit by a meteorite.

If the guy had tried everything possible to stop it happening then he may have had some legitimate mitigation for what he did. If it is private land were there signs up; was there a sign on his garage door?; had he talked to the owner to get it stopped?; if it's part of the highway then had he reported to the police about obstruction?

You think someone should have to put a sign on their garage do if they don't expect people to park in front of it? That's utterly ridiculous. Presumably the owner wasn't there at the time, so couldn't be talked to - and you shouldn't have to talk to someone to prevent them from doing something so inconsiderate. As for the police, you do seem to have been browbeaten into the attitude that you can't do anything yourself whenever you encounter a problem. That attitude will lead you to calling for a qualified electrician the next time you need to change a lightbulb.

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Did anyone notice the class parking on the biz zig-zags by the people-carrier driver?

I'd say working class with middle class aspirations

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One assumes there was a no parking sign up? I can't see one and there was car parked right next door.

Anyway, there are better ways of dealing with it. He could have caused a serious accident, nearly ran over one of the milling pedestrians and all because he was fed up.

Personally, I would be most upset, but would have punctured all the tyres and sat back and watched from my window.

Better just to let the air out of all the tyres, old chap. That way you're not doing any damage, but the twit is almost just as fecked.

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Better just to let the air out of all the tyres, old chap. That way you're not doing any damage, but the twit is almost just as fecked.

My thoughts exactly - presumably that's not classed as criminal damage is it? You could even put up a sign saying 'danger, parking here may cause tyre deflation' or something. It would be quite good, well until the car owner smashed your head in and sued you for emotional distress, that is..... :(

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Yes. You're quite right.

Someone once boxed me in in a car park. When he came out I asked him what he was playing at. At which point he played the hardman and said that if I didn't shut up it 'would get serious'. He was a right fat little ****** and about as threatening looking as John Inman.

I dunno - i'd feel fairly threatened if I walked into the kitchen to this.

_42655295_inmanscrub_250.jpg

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Interesting concept appearing in this thread - 'I strongly object when other people do inconsiderate things, but I am allowed to do inconsiderate, dangerous and illegal things.'

Really?

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Good on the 'ol bugger. Please who park infront of garages deserve all they get.

I used to live the apartment lifestyle in an executive luxury 2 bed (with en suite). You know, the ones with only 1 allocated parking space each but marketed to "young professional couples" who by definition all come with 2 cars. A small number (including mine) had garages; and due to the lack of parking mine was frequently parked in front of, by one frequent offender in particular who felt he deserved to park there because it was physically closes to his girlfriend's flat, and would even do so if there were spaces available.

After a few polite requests not to park there anymore were completely ignored I took to going out for leisure drives at 3AM, and repeatedly woke them up to get him to move his car by way of the extremely loud entry buzzer.

Still took him 2 or 3 times to get the message.

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What the old guy did was slightly dangerous although i dont think its as dangerous as some are making out. There are plenty of vehicles with large blind spots when reversing. Regardless, nobody was hurt in the incident. I think the court came down ridiculously hard on him (although there was a second incident of which there are few details). Did the person in the Ka even get a slap on the wrists for being stupid and parking where he did? No, because what he did was not illegal, just inconsiderate.

The unfortunate moral of this story / court decision seems to be thats it ok to be an @rse and block someone in but its better to ensure there is a busy road / pavement / school behind you because there is less chance of anyone pushing your car out of the way, as they are likely to be prosecuted if they do so.

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Interesting concept appearing in this thread - 'I strongly object when other people do inconsiderate things, but I am allowed to do inconsiderate, dangerous and illegal things.'

Really?

Who ever said that? If it's my post you're referring to then I think you've misunderstood it. The only case that should possibly stand against the car shover is the inconvenience his actions in turn gave to others. The "dangerous" case hasn't been shown. I don't advocate doing something dangerous, my claim is that "dangerous" in this situation is based on a whole pile of rather unlikely "what ifs" - when deciding if something is dangerous or not as important as considering what might happen is considering how likely it is. There might be a dangerous case, but there's no reason for assuming so based solely on the facts presented (other than possibly the video that I've not seen yet). Finally, I'm more interested in right or wrong than legal or illegal. I won't condemn anyone who does something illegal if I don't think it's also wrong, and have no respect for anyone who would. Similarly I am perfectly willing to codemn legal actions that I find wrong like, erm, wasting time posting here when I should be working (hey, at least I'm an honest hypocrite!)

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Old man should find the address of judge - not difficult.

Go there in his car.

Quitely park in front of the Judges driveway - blocking him.

Get set up in a pals car across the road with a video camera.

Wait and see.

Now this may have nothing to do with the actual offence that he resulted getting done for. However this action is what pushed the old bloke to undertake the 'dangerous' action. Would be interesting to see how the Judge reacted in the same situation. Maybe he would also end up doing something 'dangerous' as a result.

In any case if I were the old man it would make me feel better. And he would be doing nothing wrong or illegal. That has already been proven - by the Judge himself. Perfect. :D

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Nope, sorry. I'm not getting into another pointless argument on here about things which are plainly obvious. Pushing an unattended and uncontrolled vehicle into a road (or just about any busy public space) is dangerous. End of. If other people think differnetly then fair enough.

If he had injured or killed someone (however unlilkely that may have been) then no one would be trying to argue that what he did wansn't dangerous and you can't describe something as dangerous based solely on the outcome.

If the guy had tried everything possible to stop it happening then he may have had some legitimate mitigation for what he did. If it is private land were there signs up; was there a sign on his garage door?; had he talked to the owner to get it stopped?; if it's part of the highway then had he reported to the police about obstruction?

The Ka had its handbrake on (as the old chap initially tried to push it out of the way). Therefore all he was doing was pushing the Ka with his car, with the Ka being just an extension of his car, similar to a trailer or caravan. There was little chance of the Ka rolling away into the road. Feel sorry for him. Some parts of the UK now resemble the third world in driving standards for obvious reasons.

Edited for spelling

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  • 146 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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