Leaving the UK.

[dunroamin]

lived in sydney for 6 months. commuted on a train alongside the harbour that passed the opera house every morning. fantastic (imo!)

vote: sydney - but its just so far away

[laurejon]

Sydney has to be the best place on earth.

A lifestyle to die for, fantastic for kids, and although it looks a long way away you can get there in 30 hrs.

I wont be long before it takes 30 hrs to travel on the train from the South Coast to London.

[Quokka]

Sydney has to be the best place on earth.

A lifestyle to die for, fantastic for kids, and although it looks a long way away you can get there in 30 hrs.

I wont be long before it takes 30 hrs to travel on the train from the South Coast to London.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have often read here that the Aussie bubble is worse than the UK.

I have never believed this. Th Economist figures here seem to prove it.

[laurejon]

I can believe it.

I lived there for two years 98-2000 and in that short period property went balistic, and carried on up to this date.

Its on the wane now but you would still have to be a millionaire to own a semi detached bungalow on the north shore.

Like any capital city, cheap houses are four hours drive outside the city.

I am at a loss to see what has provided Australia with such a boyouant economy other than the property market as it seems the world and his wife in Sydney are involved in property.

I suspect that hard times are ahead but so long as you got food in your stomach and the sun is shining, who cares.

[Quokka]

I can believe it.

I lived there for two years 98-2000 and in that short period property went balistic, and carried on up to this date.

Its on the wane now but you would still have to be a millionaire to own a semi detached bungalow on the north shore.

Like any capital city, cheap houses are four hours drive outside the city.

I am at a loss to see what has provided Australia with such a boyouant economy other than the property market as it seems the world and his wife in Sydney are involved in property.

I suspect that hard times are ahead but so long as you got food in your stomach and the sun is shining, who cares.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think my wording wasn't good there, but the figures show the UK bubble is worse.

147(uk) to 113(aus) 1997-2004

Also the Aussie economy would appear to be in a lot better shape than the UK.

We have just been given tax cuts based on a large budget surplus.

As long as China keeps growing we will do well.

Edited May 14, 2005 by Quokka

[laurejon]

I assume you are an Ozzie.

What is driving the Australian Economy?.

I am expecting to be out there soon, but I have serious doubts about how its all going. My friends who are over there are telling me to come on in, the waters lovely but reports of 20% drops in Sydney House Prices is making the decision a bit tougher.

I know they have a suplus but we too once had a surplus and it didnt take long for it to turn into a record deficit.

What is being exported to China, with all the Telstra and Mitsubishi stuff going on it looks like the work is being outsourced without any benefit to Australia.

[dunroamin]

forget the economy.

aussies actually love the place they live. its beautiful. its sunny. its lovely.

they don't all spend time slagging off the system or their government.

they have australia day ffs where they are all out on the streets thanking the lord that they live there rather than some dreary (although much cooler) place like engerland.

am basing my opinions on 10 years ago when i was playing out there but can't see that it will have changed much apart from the house prices.

bet they all still think they are lucky bastards.

any of the aussies care to comment?

[Quokka]

I assume you are an Ozzie.

What is driving the Australian Economy?.

I am expecting to be out there soon, but I have serious doubts about how its all going. My friends who are over there are telling me to come on in, the waters lovely but reports of 20% drops in Sydney House Prices is making the decision a bit tougher.

I know they have a suplus but we too once had a surplus and it didnt take long for it to turn into a record deficit.

What is being exported to China, with all the Telstra and Mitsubishi stuff going on it looks like the work is being outsourced without any benefit to Australia.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm British, but been here a long time.

The Australian economy is being driven by a resources boom.

This is a regular occurrance, but the Chinese market is bigger than anything thats gone before. So may last longer than normal.

It's interesting that you are not aware of the Aussie dependance on raw material exports. I have the feeling that a lot of Sydneysiders have not a clue where the money comes from.

I would take the fall in prices in Sydney as a good sign.

You just need to time it right.

Edited May 14, 2005 by Quokka

[David from Oz]

I live at Manly Beach on the north shore of the harbour. That picture of the boat is the Manly ferry that takes commuters to and from the city. No-one is ever going to convince me that London or the UK is a better place to live, However...

I am at a loss to see what has provided Australia with such a boyouant economy other than the property market as it seems the world and his wife in Sydney are involved in property.

I'm at a loss also. It seems that 75% of the Australian economy seems to revolve around building, renovating and selling houses. See quote from this story: Confusing economic data ahead of Budget

STEPHEN LONG: Well, three quarters of the jobs in the economy flow directly or indirectly from the housing sector

The money that fuels the housing sector is all borrowed (indirectly) from overseas. Australia's trade deficit is horrendous, worse that the U.S. at >7% of GDP (see:

Australia's Current Account Deficit 1996-2005)

I know they have a suplus but we too once had a surplus and it didnt take long for it to turn into a record deficit.

We have a budget surplus of 1% of GDP. We have a current account deficit which is seven times larger

The Australian economy is being driven by a resources boom.

True to some degree. Certainly true in Western Australia where house prices are still booming. The large budget surplus is largely due to taxes on soaring mining company profits.

In short, Australia is a commodities economy. When commodity prices are high (like now) the economy booms, the Australian dollar soars, and we all madly plough money into real estate. When commodity prices fall we will have a thumping recession because all we do down here is dig stuff up out of the ground and sell it to the Chinese, and build houses for each other.

Here are some more enlightening charts:

Australia's household saving goes negative

Housing credit surges past business credit

Banana republic here we come.

Cheers, David.

[ubuntu]

Like any capital city, cheap houses are four hours drive outside the city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You lived there for 2 years but still don't know Sydney is not the capital of Australia!

[David from Oz]

You lived there for 2 years but still don't know Sydney is not the capital of Australia!

Its the capital of NSW. All state capitals are called "capital cities" in Australia.

[zzg113]

Also the Aussie economy would appear to be in a lot better shape than the UK.

We have just been given tax cuts based on a large budget surplus.

LOL! The Aussie economy's in such good shape that it's has a trade deficit larger than America's and widely acknowledged to be more appropriate for a Banana Republic than a developed First World nation!

As long as China keeps growing we will do well.

You must be cacking your pants at the prospect of a yuan revaluation then.

BTW, that Economist table that you posted only tells us the % change between 1997-2004. If Australian house prices already cost 6 times average earnings before 1997 and the average UK house only 4 times, the Ozzie bubble would be bigger despite seeing (slightly) less growth in house prices during that time.

http://www.economist.com/finance/displaySt...tory_id=3722894

Edited May 14, 2005 by zzg113

[rootsnall]

Rootsnall, could you give a short itinerary of the countries/places this comprised of? Agree with you re: the Australian property bubble, it's like the UK on steroids (mainly because of a crazy tax system which is like rocket fuel to the bubble).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A bit Oz biased, 7 years Oz mostly Sydney, some Melbourne and Oz country, 18 months Paris, a bit in Saudi, spent a fair bit of time in NZ and Sth Africa, a couple of years beach bumming/travelling elsewhere ! I enjoyed it all but eventually got home sick and returned to my beloved Blighty. Sydney is a fantastic place to live but I reckon peaked a decade ago when the average prof Brit could move there, get a good job and buy a decent house and everything else was cheap and on tap. Property has now gone potty there ( negative gearing ie. you can offset BTL losses against your personal tax bill has led to a very distorted market that I think will pop in a big way at some stage, when ? ) and most other things are getting more expensive and more exclusive. As Sydney has developed into a big city it has started to gain all the problems ( crime, drugs, terrible traffic problems, pollution, etc ) that other big cities around the world have and a lot of Brits are a bit blinkered because the only see the nice North Shore and trendy Eastern Suburbs. A few miles inland and its a different world ! Saying that if you get a decent job there and fancy a few years living in a heavily subsidised BTL flat on the harbour it is fairly hard to beat and I'd highly recommend it ! Not over keen on Melbourne, a dull version of Syndey but OK, the rest of Oz including the other cities is what I'd class as 'good clean living' territory, great weather but not much going on and hard work for some Brits who've grown up in built up Blighty. New Zealand even more so on the good clean living front but miles from anwhere and anything ! Paris was good, a slightly more exotic London but very much a big expensive city, 6 quid a pint ! Saudi, an awful place but good pay. Sth Africa lots of potential but scarily unsafe. In short everywhere has its upsides and downsides, the UK isn't too bad in comparison !

Edited May 14, 2005 by rootsnall

[Quokka]

LOL! The Aussie economy's in such good shape that it's has a trade deficit larger than America's and widely acknowledged to be more appropriate for a Banana Republic than a developed First World nation!

I love bananas..

You must be cacking your pants at the prospect of a yuan revaluation then.

BTW, that Economist table that you posted only tells us the % change between 1997-2004. If Australian house prices already cost 6 times average earnings before 1997 and the average UK house only 4 times, the Ozzie bubble would be bigger despite seeing (slightly) less growth in house prices during that time.

http://www.economist.com/finance/displaySt...tory_id=3722894

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

6 times earnings in 1997 ?

please post your source

[homeless]

always suprises me why a country of such size as australia with such low population would have any kind of housing bubble at all

heck plonk me a cabin down 20 mile out in the sticks i would be happy enough

[fed up renting]

There are some things I liked about not living in the UK, mainly the fact you're not surrounded by media culture as much. Its easy to ignore another countries celebrities and politics. Some things are also better, prices, transport and health care mainly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was recently in Australisia and could not believe how much media stuff revolved around the UK news

Sitting on a hotel courtesy bus at 5.30AM to hear over the local radio that Posh had had her latest sprog why would they be interested in stuff like that?

[zzg113]

I was recently in Australisia and could not believe how much media stuff revolved around the UK news 

Sitting on a hotel courtesy bus at 5.30AM to hear over the local radio that Posh had had her latest sprog  why would they be interested in stuff like that?

Virtually all Ozzies are Brits in one way or another. Either their great-grandfather was transported there from the UK in the 1800's, or they themselves emigrated to Oz in the late 50's and 60's :

http://migration.ucdavis.edu/mn/more.php?id=3035_0_5_0

Between 1946 and 1972, Australia subsidized the immigration of one million British "Ten Pound Poms," who paid a nominal 10 pounds to emigrate to Australia.

Australia and New Zealand are like one big outpost of the UK in the middle of the Pacific and Indian Oceans.

[Quokka]

I was recently in Australisia and could not believe how much media stuff revolved around the UK news

Sitting on a hotel courtesy bus at 5.30AM to hear over the local radio that Posh had had her latest sprog   why would they be interested in stuff like that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They're more interested in the Royal Families than you are, Windsors & Becks

[George]

Got a deposit saved up, just need to get out, can't afford to wait for Englands house prices fall 40% could take years. Too many VI's and greedy people. They're asking 135k for new 2 bed flats. Cant afford that. Council tax as well would be £100 on top then you have to pay £70 for non existent maintenance. Talking a grand to pay every month nearly. Hopefully I can have a better life in Canada, with my deposit it shouldnt be a huge mortgage!

[Quokka]

Got a deposit saved up, just need to get out, can't afford to wait for Englands house prices  fall 40% could take years. Too many VI's and greedy people. They're asking 135k for new 2 bed flats. Cant afford that. Council tax as well would be £100 on top then you have to pay £70 for non existent maintenance. Talking a grand to pay every month nearly. Hopefully I can have a better life in Canada, with my deposit it shouldnt be a huge mortgage!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Canada looks to have the cheapest housing of all the popular destinations.

But finance is not a good reason to emigrate.

[ubuntu]

Got a deposit saved up, just need to get out, can't afford to wait for Englands house prices  fall 40% could take years. Too many VI's and greedy people. They're asking 135k for new 2 bed flats. Cant afford that. Council tax as well would be £100 on top then you have to pay £70 for non existent maintenance. Talking a grand to pay every month nearly. Hopefully I can have a better life in Canada, with my deposit it shouldnt be a huge mortgage!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

George, did you manage to get a Canadian mortgage with those people I mentioned on the overseas forum?

[Property Dreamer]

But finance is not a good reason to emigrate

If not for that reason then what else is there?

[Quokka]

If not for that reason then what else is there?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you can't think of one - don't go!

[Gtr London FTB]

forget the economy.

aussies actually love the place they live. its beautiful. its sunny. its lovely.

they don't all spend time slagging off the system or their government.

they have australia day ffs where they are all out on the streets thanking the lord that they live there rather than some dreary (although much cooler) place like engerland.

am basing my opinions on 10 years ago when i was playing out there but can't see that it will have changed much apart from the house prices.

bet they all still think they are lucky bastards.

any of the aussies care to comment?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is a very different place now than it was 10 years ago. If it was still the same I would probably be back there.

[Immigrant]

Good luck to all of you who plan to emigrate.

Let's just hope none of you are among the large number of people on this forum who are so vociferous against immigrants to the UK. I hope you don't think that immigrants who come here are "stealing jobs" from the locals, while you are an asset to the economies in which you will work.

Nothing wrong with moving abroad to try to find a better life for yourself - I just wish people wouldn't be so hypocritical about it.

Good luck to you all.