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3000 To Go At The Manchester Police

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Thousands of job losses within Greater Manchester Police were being unveiled today.

We understand that up to 1,400 civilian jobs will be axed over the next three years and up to 1,500 police officer posts will be lost as huge spending cuts begin to bite. Most of the police officer jobs are expected to go through natural wastage – retirement and a recruitment freeze.

Some entire departments - including public relations are understood to be vulnerable.

But the number of civilian jobs axed will depend on whether the force activates a regulation which means police officers with 30 years' service must retire.

The A19 clause is rarely used. It could allow the force to shed between 100 and 200 police officers' jobs.

But force bosses are anticipating it may be the subject of a legal challenge.

Other civilian back-room posts, some of which are likely to go, are in human resources, fleet vehicle maintenance, cleaning, finance, IT and training.

Tomorrow, 1,900 uniformed and civilian staff working in the areas under threat will attend two sessions at Bolton Wanderers' Reebok Stadium to hear which of them will lose their jobs. The force currently has 4,152 civilians and 8,000 officers.

The force's 840 police community support officers could also be under threat.

One insider said: “When 80 per cent of the force budget is spent on staff wages, and at the moment we can't make police officers redundant, it is obvious where the cuts will be made."

The force has been warned its budget could be cut by 20 per cent over the next four years. Today's report is likely to only give details of job losses in the financial year 2011-12 - more posts will go in the following three years.

The report will be considered by the authority at its meeting on November 22.

Chief Constable Peter Fahy has vowed to protect frontline policing, but has said his aim is to reduce the number of back room staff by 30 percent.

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A 20% percent cut in funding means a 25% cut in staff.

Because they are sacking the cheaper 25%.

Sack the cheapest 25% of the most expensive 10%.

The cheapest 25% are young people with no employment rights.

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> through natural wastage – retirement and a recruitment freeze.

So pay off the oldies and don't allow the younger workers in, then force them to pay for the oldies pension and £40K for their education.

Yet another drawbridge operation.

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Any operation in which staff cannot be fired is on a one-way route to failure.

Employee rights are important, but if public sector employees are incompetent or no longer needed (often in a position that should not have existed in the first place) then it is time to go. End of story.

Edited by tahoma

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if we have a law that the national budget deficit can not be larger than e.g. 4% we would not have this problem at all ...

just a thought ...

I reckon we would have the same problem, plus we'd have broken that law

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Any operation in which staff cannot be fired is on a one-way route to failure.

Employee rights are important, but if public sector employees are incompetent or no longer needed (often in a position that should not have existed in the first place) then it is time to go. End of story.

You can fire them for gross imcompetence I think, and for getting a criminal record (including drink driving).

You would have to change the law to allow them to be made redundant. If their employee rights are threatened in that way, then they would want the same right as any other group of workers - the right to go on strike.

The quid pro quo for the police now is that they are not legally allowed to go on strike; in exchange for their protection from redundancy.

Let them go out on strike, and the country falls apart in 2 years time when all the unions start demonstrating. You would have to introduce an army state in that scenario.

Edited by rex

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Those in charge don't seem to be very bright. The police are a private army to protect the small amount of rich people from the large amount of poor (and about to be poorer) people. Reducing their protection seems tantamount to them accepting their fate. The events at Millbank last week are but a small taste of what is to come.

Maybe they will have to hire private mercenaries when the army is closed down. I reckon we will go back to our roots and like Somalia we will once again be the pirate nation.

For the average man and woman the existence of the police force is an irrelevance.

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You can fire them for gross imcompetence I think, and for getting a criminal record (including drink driving).

IN THEORY BUT SELDOM IN PRACTICE.

You would have to change the law to allow them to be made redundant. If their employee rights are threatened in that way, then they would want the same right as any other group of workers - the right to go on strike.

THEY ARE THE LAW, THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT.

The quid pro quo for the police now is that they are not legally allowed to go on strike; in exchange for their protection from redundancy.

AND WHO IS GOING TO ENFORCE THIS RULE?

Let them go out on strike, and the country falls apart in 2 years time when all the unions start demonstrating. You would have to introduce an army state in that scenario.

THE COUNTRY IS ALREADY FINISHED, THE UNIONS NO LONGER EXIST, YOU LIVE IN AN INVERTED TOTALITARIAN STATE ALREADY, AND THE MOST IRRATE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE THE ONCE PROSPEROUS MIDDLE CLASSES. THE ARMY WON'T EXIST IN A FEW YEARS SO DON'T EXPECT THEM TO BE DOING ANYTHING OTHER THAN DYING IN A FOREIGN FIELD UNTIL DISBANDED.

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Those in charge don't seem to be very bright. The police are a private army to protect the small amount of rich people from the large amount of poor (and about to be poorer) people. Reducing their protection seems tantamount to them accepting their fate. The events at Millbank last week are but a small taste of what is to come.

Maybe they will have to hire private mercenaries when the army is closed down. I reckon we will go back to our roots and like Somalia we will once again be the pirate nation.

For the average man and woman the existence of the police force is an irrelevance.

No. The police mainly protect the poor from each other. A lot of their time is taken resolving arguments between members of the underclass.

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No. The police mainly protect the poor from each other. A lot of their time is taken resolving arguments between members of the underclass.

Amen to that, spent a year in the Met when I was younger (early 80s), and it's exactly as you describe, from what I saw most career criminals the police deal with seem to be pretty thick, or more charitably "have been failed by society", the smart ones become businessmen, accountants, lawyers and politicians, and are therefore pretty much flameproof unless they screw up badly (even then how many MP's on the expenses scandal ended up inside, regardless of the fact that some of them conned more than a medium sized bank heist would gross?).

Myself I think with all the cuts they are making elsewhere they probably need to double the manpower of the police rather than cut it, to cope with the increased crime that will surely take place, what with the benefits clampdown and inflation generally; I think you can also guarantee plenty of demonstrations, some peaceful others like the students demo the other day which all need some presence.

Edited by madpenguin

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Maybe they will have to hire private mercenaries when the army is closed down. I reckon we will go back to our roots and like Somalia we will once again be the pirate nation.

More like 1920s Weimar Germany with the out of work military veterans and ex-cops forming paramilitary groups. :lol:

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More like 1920s Weimar Germany with the out of work military veterans and ex-cops forming paramilitary groups. :lol:

I know you meant that in fun, but if things get too bad the prospect is all too real in some areas.

Every cheap tin pot banana republic's president knows he has to keep the military and police on side, if things get too bad it's not hard to see this type of thing happening again, disaffected military in particular is a very bad idea. (particularly now so many of them have actual combat experience)

Didn't I hear somewhere that in the Wilson era that the army had a back up plan to take over? :(

Edited by madpenguin

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Those in charge don't seem to be very bright. The police are a private army to protect the small amount of rich people from the large amount of poor (and about to be poorer) people. Reducing their protection seems tantamount to them accepting their fate. The events at Millbank last week are but a small taste of what is to come.

Maybe they will have to hire private mercenaries when the army is closed down. I reckon we will go back to our roots and like Somalia we will once again be the pirate nation.

For the average man and woman the existence of the police force is an irrelevance.

Nah they come knocking on your door when you haven't paid your council tax.

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I know you meant that in fun, but if things get too bad the prospect is all too real in some areas.

We're quite close to Ireland and France who seem to have bigger problems with uppity citizens, if one major European country politically blows up it'll probably have a domino effect, and there's massive protests even in Germany.

Didn't I hear somewhere that in the Wilson era that the army had a back up plan to take over? :(

Obama seems to have rubbed some US Army officers the wrong way.

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We're quite close to Ireland and France who seem to have bigger problems with uppity citizens, if one major European country politically blows up it'll probably have a domino effect, and there's massive protests even in Germany.

Obama seems to have rubbed some US Army officers the wrong way.

A massive hole has appeared in the police budget. Officers are looking into it.

The full scale of the crisis became apparent last night when a shoe firm supplying the police went into administration due to unpaid invoices. Local citizens are wondering who is going to foot the bill.

Sundry expenses for visits to public conveniences by on duty police officers have been axed. Serving officers who are trying to find out why have nothing to go on.

I will get my coat.

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I'm not entirely uncomfortable with some police manpower being lost IF the remaininder is used to do meaningful tasks and be less obsessed with meeting targets by undertaking tasks that reap minmal social benefits - that plus a commensurate increase in the powers/rights of the citizenry to protect themselves without the blanket threat of state retribution.

Edited by anonguest

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