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Just As Predicted: Campaign To Scrap Minimum Wage Picking Up Steam

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Don't like being wrong do you.

There are loads and loads of costs involved , Factory, energy, admin, insurance , managment.

If labour has been reduced , labour that was earning a lot more than the NMW why has the NMW had such an impact on the prices.

Just like removing the chief executive's package would have negligibel impact on the consumer price so did introducing the NMW, you kind of defeated your argument about wage increases and prices on that one .

I've stated facts from experience. I know what causes costs to increase and I know what does and doesn't cause significant increases in prices customers pay. Over the last 10+ years I've watched endless manufactruring jobs disappear abroad or be automated away.

I employed low-skilled staff before the NMW, on more than the NMW on introduction. They are now all on around NMW and I can tell you from observation they are not noticeable better off or occupying any higher social demographic group.

The prices have gone down because of cheap overseas or automated manufacturing the labour function has been removed. Prices for things that can't be automated or outsourced, like haircuts, have inflated in line with general labour costs.

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I knew this was coming. So, going forward, the choice will be to take that £1/hr job, or get benefits denied to you for 3 years. Those student protests are going to look like a garden party compared to what is to come.

The minimum wage was purely a political con. Hardly anyone was earning below the original figure.

The amount was pathetic. How can anyone live on such a low wage? It was an insult to the low paid jobs.

I think the MW actually caused people to earn less than their potential. If employers wanted to keep decent workers, they would have paid more than this, but the MW took away the market competition and they were able to use it as an excuse to pay crap wages.

I think it's a good thing to scrap it.

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I've stated facts from experience. I know what causes costs to increase and I know what does and doesn't cause significant increases in prices customers pay. Over the last 10+ years I've watched endless manufactruring jobs disappear abroad or be automated away.

I employed low-skilled staff before the NMW, on more than the NMW on introduction. They are now all on around NMW and I can tell you from observation they are not noticeable better off or occupying any higher social demographic group.

The prices have gone down because of cheap overseas or automated manufacturing the labour function has been removed. Prices for things that can't be automated or outsourced, like haircuts, have inflated in line with general labour costs.

Endless manufacturing jobs disappear abroad or automated away , so NMW has nothing to do with the price that we now pay for these .

Of course people on NMW are not occupying any higher social demographic group they are on NMW not a living wage. As you know and I pointed out in another post they are people whos social group will be dependent on others either spouse or parents.

The prices have gone down due to almost nil cost to produce abroad yes. But not gone down as much as stripping out the wage costs could have acheived as other costs have gone up and up like the energy , the transport costs, the rents on shops and taxes on shops, insurance on shops, red tape , and share holder profits. None of these costs have risen due to the NMW but other factors.

However time and time again the NMW gets blamed for all the bussiness worlds ills.

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Imo minimum wage should be a living wage in a first world nation. If the leadership of a nation is too incompetent to deliver that, they need to get out of the way.

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Imo minimum wage should be a living wage in a first world nation. If the leadership of a nation is too incompetent to deliver that, they need to get out of the way.

Interesting viewpoint.

It begs the questions "How would you determine a living wage??" and "Could the economy afford it?" but these are academic given that the UK is not going to be be a first world country.

Lack of natural resources

Lack of skilled educated workforce

Shrinking manufacturing base

Rapidly ageing population

Mountain of debt to service / repay

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People buying beer and cigarettes spend so much tax they effectively cancel out their benefits.

That's the idea. Pretty good business model for the government and makes the taxes more palatable for the tobacco companies and breweries knowing that their main customers are topped up enough to keep shifting the product.

Don't forget the lottery as well. I've no idea where that money goes but it must end up doing something that the government would otherwise pay for and the benefits money, whether dole or tax credits, comes straight back into the coffers.

Waited five minutes yesterday trying to buy some milk behind a bloated benefit claimant shelling out £30 on a variety of get rich lottery schemes.

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The reality is that low wages are bad for any economy. Basically you are devaluing your labour Market and encouraging the type of growth you don't want.

We should be looking at France and Germany rather trying to compete with china and India.

Britain is badly organised and as a result we are not competitive and under productive. We work far too hard to produce too little. This applies to private companies and government.

Forcing people into jobs they won't pay the bills is going to do serious hard to Britain.

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You know what I find "fascinating" about the UK, is it has Germany on its doorstep as an economic model (NOTE: They STILL have a strong manufacturing base) and yet it chooses to follow the American model and drive itself over the cliff.

Unbelievable.

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Germany produces stuff and their wages and conditions are higher and better than ours.

German wages have not risen since the 90's in real term (actually they have fallen) and there are lots of people on the dole, as many (if not more) than in the UK.

Also, there are the 1 Euro jobs which people have to take or lose their unemployment money, and that has been happening for may years -- it's basically workfare, and people can get stuck in it forever.

As for higher and better -- prices in the shops are higher but the dole is better (they pay for all of the heating costs...)

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British people can manufacture good products.... but the environment and conditions need to be right. Bankers need to think in the longer term, government needs to think "how can we help" and the population at large needs to value what manufacturing offers.

I remember talking to a chap who own a factory up in the midlands... the local school asked if they could bring some kids round to show them what manufacturing industry looked like, how it functioned. All was going well until the point where the teacher led the kids onto the factory floor... at which point he was heard to say "look kids, if you don't do well at school this is where you're going to end up".

This is a perfect demonstration of why UK manufacturing is on it's @rse.... generations of kids have been taught that ending up working in manufacturing is your punishment for not doing well at school.

The amount of investment which goes into modern manufacturing factories takes a long time to see a return... this is the opposite to what the financial sector want.... if you're going to get a bonus this year you need huge profits... and quickly.

So, the education sector brainwashes people into rejecting manufacturing careers because it's not cool to work in a factory and the banks are too short sighted to provide the investment capital..... a toxic mix.

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There is virtually no labour involved in modern breweries I would suspect - in common with all modern large-scale manufacturing.

The HGV driver who takes it to the supermarket NDC will be paid more but their wages are pretty much indexed to NMW these days really.

You really seem to struggle to understand that the largest determinant of the price of any product on a shelf or on a table in a restaurant is the cost of the labour involved to get it there in its finished state.

Hi,

In a pub though, would it not be more sensitive to the governments bag men increasing their rates? When employing labour, is the cost doing so excluding the wage component (i.e. just the taxes) not high in the first place?

I've stated facts from experience. I know what causes costs to increase and I know what does and doesn't cause significant increases in prices customers pay. Over the last 10+ years I've watched endless manufactruring jobs disappear abroad or be automated away.

I employed low-skilled staff before the NMW, on more than the NMW on introduction. They are now all on around NMW and I can tell you from observation they are not noticeable better off or occupying any higher social demographic group.

The prices have gone down because of cheap overseas or automated manufacturing the labour function has been removed. Prices for things that can't be automated or outsourced, like haircuts, have inflated in line with general labour costs.

Interesting you should mention haircuts - that is reasonably labour intensive I guess, in terms of amount of heads one is able to shear in a day. It is also a small business that would likely need high street presence, and therefore require to pay more to the bag man?

Products being more cheaply manufactured overseas could also because the country in question has a less onerous state run protection racket?

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Focussing on the wage is a con trick perpetuated by New Labour and lapped up without question by bleeding heart lefties. It's a cunning political ruse that shifts the attention where it needs to be - on the costs imposed by government and their army of private tax collecting landlords - and onto employers. As a result 99% of the debate degenerates into a pointless bun throwing exercise.

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I knew this was coming. So, going forward, the choice will be to take that £1/hr job, or get benefits denied to you for 3 years. Those student protests are going to look like a garden party compared to what is to come.

And still no sign of the banksters and their minions getting punished.

As someone called Clegg said before the election, "there will be riots in the streets if Tory cuts are implemented." <_<

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I can knock wine out at 10p a pint. With the increase of the price of sugar and fruits etc. its risen to only 15p.

50% rise in costs and no one has started running round complaining about inflation?

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50% rise in costs and no one has started running round complaining about inflation?

That is because raw materials are nowadays a fraction of the cost to produce anything -- taxes are the largest position here.

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That is because raw materials are nowadays a fraction of the cost to produce anything -- taxes are the largest position here.

So you are telling me that inflation is directly controlled by the government by taxation and that the import costs of raw materials are virtually irrelevant?

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You know what I find "fascinating" about the UK, is it has Germany on its doorstep as an economic model (NOTE: They STILL have a strong manufacturing base) and yet it chooses to follow the American model and drive itself over the cliff.

Unbelievable.

+1

Never heard a truer word. They are similar to us in so many ways, we could implement their model readily. What the hell was Bliar on about referring to a knowledge based economy. My kids came out of school brainwashed with this rubbish. How do you run such an economy?

But labour does not want the UK to be successful. That is part of their plan.

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So you are telling me that inflation is directly controlled by the government by taxation and that the import costs of raw materials are virtually irrelevant?

Yes.

Tax is the biggest position in any calculation, HMRC is a silent partner at about 50% of your turnover after you totted up *all* the bites it's taken out of the cake in total. Remember, before you get the material, HMRC already taxed your supplier at 50% (corp tax, employee taxes, business tax, and so on), and whatever those guys used to make their stuff also has already been fleeced all the way down the chain, and then they'll fleece you all over again and make you pay tax on the tax they already took.

And that is before we even factor in the VAT your customers are charged in the shop on the completed item.

I know it's tempting to see this all as individual transactions, but actually, that's a trick to bamboozle people into believing that it's only a few percent... it's not, it's the lionshare of everything we trade and create.

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I knew this was coming. So, going forward, the choice will be to take that £1/hr job, or get benefits denied to you for 3 years. Those student protests are going to look like a garden party compared to what is to come.

This sounds about right.

IDS wants work to pay more than benefits, so why not just cut all benefits completely and then reduce the minimum wage to a pound an hour ?

More nice profits for the companies, and more poverty for the workers.

I doubt that the Condems will survive the next general election, unless all the peasants have died off due to starvation leaving only the rich to vote.

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Drop minimum wage, and then watch tax credits/income support benefits sky rocket! IDS want's workers to be at least 35p in the pound better off remember!

I think we've enough state subsidy of worker wages thank you very much.

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They are effectively amending the minimum wage already with the concept of replacing paid employees with volunteers in the sorts of jobs that people would enjoy doing for a few hours a week. Not many people would want to wait on table in a tea shop by a beach in Cornwall for 40 hours a week for no pay, but plenty of people would be happy to do so for 2 or 3 hours a fortnight, for example.

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  • 200 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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