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frugalboy

Excellent Rolling Stone Article On Courts' Role In Foreclosure Mess

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US - banana republic run by financial crooks. World superpower rating to be downgraded accordingly.

Yet the quality of life for a minimum wage worker is likely much better in the US than Britain. If they are a banana republic what are we?

Not to mention they have a lot more scale to cut down their government spending as it's like 50% military, so they are coming from a place of huge resources/ economic power to scale down.

We are coming from a place of almost no resources/ economic power just a fake economy built on finance and house prices.

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Yet the quality of life for a minimum wage worker is likely much better in the US than Britain. If they are a banana republic what are we?

Not to mention they have a lot more scale to cut down their government spending as it's like 50% military, so they are coming from a place of huge resources/ economic power to scale down.

We are coming from a place of almost no resources/ economic power just a fake economy built on finance and house prices.

This is what i try and tell people.

I always get the 'but they have no NHS and the poor are left too rot'

Er, no. They get treatment, they just live in debt for the rest of their lives. Instead here, we get treatment, but have to live in debt for the rest of our lifes to pay for a roof over our heads.

I dont see the difference. In what way is it fairer here? A roof over your head is as basic a need as medical care.

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This is what i try and tell people.

I always get the 'but they have no NHS and the poor are left too rot'

Er, no. They get treatment, they just live in debt for the rest of their lives. Instead here, we get treatment, but have to live in debt for the rest of our lifes to pay for a roof over our heads.

I dont see the difference. In what way is it fairer here? A roof over your head is as basic a need as medical care.

In a state like Georgia you get $5.15 an hour, no holiday allowance and no health care. If you get ill you will either die or go bankrupt. However you can rent a house very cheaply in a high crime area with drug problems.

Here you get 4 weeks paid holiday, completely free healthcare and help for child allowance, working family tax credits and housing benefit etc etc

I'd rather have out system any day of the week, if we still had enough council houses our system would be FAR better.

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http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/232611?RS_show_page=4

Page 5

In one case handled by Jacksonville Area Legal Aid, a homeowner refinanced her house in 2005 but almost immediately got into trouble, going into default in December of that year. Yet somehow, this woman's loan was placed into a trust called Home Equity Loan Trust Series AE 2005-HE5 in January 2006 — five months after the deadline for that particular trust. The loan was not only late, it was already in foreclosure — which means that, by definition, whoever the investors were in AE 2005-HE5 were getting shafted.

......

......

But the banks sold the securities based on these pools of mortgages as AAA-rated gold anyway.

Pension funds buying mortgage backed securities full of mortgages ALREADY in foreclosure - and sold as AAA.

There was a famous phrase used by the tories when last in power.

"Let the tall flowers bloom"

Have to :lol: now

UK people didn't realise then that what they really meant was: Let the tall weeds bloom.

Edited by billybong

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In a state like Georgia you get $5.15 an hour, no holiday allowance and no health care. If you get ill you will either die or go bankrupt. However you can rent a house very cheaply in a high crime area with drug problems.

Here you get 4 weeks paid holiday, completely free healthcare and help for child allowance, working family tax credits and housing benefit etc etc

I'd rather have out system any day of the week, if we still had enough council houses our system would be FAR better.

Healthcare is not free in the UK. It might not be paid for by the person receiving it but it is certainly not free.

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Healthcare is not free in the UK. It might not be paid for by the person receiving it but it is certainly not free.

True -but if you are on minimum wage it is pretty much free to you less your and your employers NI contributions.

In the US, if you did have insurance it would be a co-pay system which would pretty much kill your finances forever more.

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True -but if you are on minimum wage it is pretty much free to you less your and your employers NI contributions.

In the US, if you did have insurance it would be a co-pay system which would pretty much kill your finances forever more.

I think that you have properly described the problem in the UK. As long as the person receiving something doesn't have to pay for it, it is seen as being free. It isn't. It is just that someone else has to pay for it.

A province in Canada used to send every resident a healthcare statement once a year outlining exactly what was spent on their healthcare that year. It was eye opening for many.

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Yes, Rolling stone had a good article on GS causing every boom and bust the last century a year or so back too.

Dont know who reads it though, only guy i knew who bought it was a friends dad, so possibly a lot of boomers.

You actually know someone who paid money for a magazine? :lol::lol::lol:

Agreed, won't get much play among the masses in paper form, but this sort of article will be all over the financial blogs and other sites and hopefully will find its way to the MSM that way.

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A province in Canada used to send every resident a healthcare statement once a year outlining exactly what was spent on their healthcare that year. It was eye opening for many.

That sounds like a bloody good idea. It might stop people running to the A&E every time they get a headache or a bit of indigestion.

Have to say I prefer the UK system though. Unless you're full of money in the US it's very stressful - the health insurance industry are evil. They don't add any value. I just don't see what use they have and how they can morally justify denying care to anyone and yet still make a profit. Every extra dollar they give to their shareholders or pay to their executives is a dollar of care denied to someone. People before profits I say. Guess that makes me a commie <_<

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That sounds like a bloody good idea. It might stop people running to the A&E every time they get a headache or a bit of indigestion.

Have to say I prefer the UK system though. Unless you're full of money in the US it's very stressful - the health insurance industry are evil. They don't add any value. I just don't see what use they have and how they can morally justify denying care to anyone and yet still make a profit. Every extra dollar they give to their shareholders or pay to their executives is a dollar of care denied to someone. People before profits I say. Guess that makes me a commie <_<

Canada has fully socialised medicine.

I am economically quite right wing. I think that it is more cost efficient for the public sector to provide things like healthcare due to pooling and cost of capital advantages. From what I have seen in the US system, the waste in that system is larger than it is in the NHS so I don't buy the efficiency argument.

I don't have a problem with a parallel private system for those who can afford to jump the queue or get what they perceive to be better care in much the same way as I don't object to some people being able to afford Rolls Royces rather than taking the bus.

In the UK, the private sector probably acts as a subsidy to the NHS so it should be encouraged.

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That sounds like a bloody good idea. It might stop people running to the A&E every time they get a headache or a bit of indigestion.

Have to say I prefer the UK system though. Unless you're full of money in the US it's very stressful - the health insurance industry are evil. They don't add any value. I just don't see what use they have and how they can morally justify denying care to anyone and yet still make a profit. Every extra dollar they give to their shareholders or pay to their executives is a dollar of care denied to someone. People before profits I say. Guess that makes me a commie <_<

Exactly - the American (dream) system doesn't work, only for the Elite mafia families/greediest/lucky few who manipulate the system & end up with all the loot!

As hundreds of millions of American slaves are finding out -

e.g. a medical service which works in collusion with the elite's Insurance companies (and has no competition) will screw the population so hard, that hundreds of millions get priced out & can't even get medical help.

They are completely mad!

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Canada has fully socialised medicine.

I am economically quite right wing. I think that it is more cost efficient for the public sector to provide things like healthcare due to pooling and cost of capital advantages. From what I have seen in the US system, the waste in that system is larger than it is in the NHS so I don't buy the efficiency argument.

I don't have a problem with a parallel private system for those who can afford to jump the queue or get what they perceive to be better care in much the same way as I don't object to some people being able to afford Rolls Royces rather than taking the bus.

In the UK, the private sector probably acts as a subsidy to the NHS so it should be encouraged.

The experience of my wife is that the NHS acts as a subsidy to the private sector. If the private guys screw up big time, guess where they take you? Straight to the nearest NHS hospital. And where did all the surgeons/consultants work out-of-hours? Down at the private hospital.

I think the private sector handles cases like sports injuries admirably well, but I wouldn't want to be diagnosed with something chronic like diabetes or angina if I only had private insurance to fall back on.

Re. the rolling stone article, the last line says it all:

.... in America, it's far more shameful to owe money than it is to steal it.

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The experience of my wife is that the NHS acts as a subsidy to the private sector. If the private guys screw up big time, guess where they take you? Straight to the nearest NHS hospital. And where did all the surgeons/consultants work out-of-hours? Down at the private hospital.

I think the private sector handles cases like sports injuries admirably well, but I wouldn't want to be diagnosed with something chronic like diabetes or angina if I only had private insurance to fall back on.

Re. the rolling stone article, the last line says it all:

I agree that the bulk of the people doing the work in the public and private healthcare sectors are the same people that is why I used the word perceived when talking about the difference in the level of care across the two sectors.

I think that the way that the subsidy works is that the NHS pay surgeons et al well below the income that they could earn in any nation with fully socialised medicine. The surgeons et al top up their NHS wages with their private sector work reducing the demands on taxpayers.

The NHS also makes its facilities available to the private sector. One can jump the NHS queue for something like an MRI by paying somewhere between 900 and 1,200 and getting it done at an NHS hospital by NHS staff working privately. The NHS hospital earns a "facility fee".

I agree that there are instances where a NHS facility has to deal with something that has gone wrong in a private hospital. The net subsidy of the NHS from private work is smaller than the gross subsidy.

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Pension funds buying mortgage backed securities full of mortgages ALREADY in foreclosure - and sold as AAA.

There was a famous phrase used by the tories when last in power.

"Let the tall flowers bloom"

Have to :lol: now

UK people didn't realise then that what they really meant was: Let the tall weeds bloom.

It's hard to see how they are going to get away with this. They are going to need one hell of a slime ball lawyer to obfuscate their way out of this.

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It's hard to see how they are going to get away with this. They are going to need one hell of a slime ball lawyer to obfuscate their way out of this.

There are rumours of a plan to pass legislation to retroactively legalise most of the paperwork fraud (kinda difficult to explain....see http://livinglies.wordpress.com/2010/11/11/pardon-livinglies-obtains-wall-street-playbook-mers-to-be-legitimized-by-act-of-congress/)

There is some hope that justice might prevail though, because the investors who've been screwed by the banks are some heavy hitters as well, and the lawsuits are apparently coming in thick and fast.

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The experience of my wife is that the NHS acts as a subsidy to the private sector. If the private guys screw up big time, guess where they take you? Straight to the nearest NHS hospital. And where did all the surgeons/consultants work out-of-hours? Down at the private hospital.

I think the private sector handles cases like sports injuries admirably well, but I wouldn't want to be diagnosed with something chronic like diabetes or angina if I only had private insurance to fall back on.

Re. the rolling stone article, the last line says it all:

Disagree.

My wife had a tumour last year. In the time it took to be referred to a specialist on the "2 week fast track cancer pathway" to get the 1st "hello, yes, you have a tumour" meeting (and then another 12 week wait for any substantive treatment) we had:

- found the best specialist in the UK

- met them and agreed a treatment plan

- started the 1st stages of fixing the problem.

Sorry, but for us the private system save my wife's life. Just feel morally dirty that we had to have money to get the best care...

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Christ. I'd been wondering whether people realised quite how big an issue this is going to be for the banks and the markets as a whole.

Clearly the banks do. As you say though a lot of the investors in securitised crap are institutional, pension fund etc so they're [should be] under an obligation to contest it all.

This is a huge issue and make no mistake there will be a lot of senior bankers going to prison once this is out in the open.

In many ways the the fact that these home owners should be foreclosed is not always in doubt, the issue is that fraud has occurred between the banks and investors.

Paper trails have been destroyed so that the criminal dabs are not on the offending paperwork, it just so happens that the same paperwork is needed to  process a foreclosure.

There is a logical sequence to solving this, and it isn't by trying to foreclose at the bottom the chain.  A key legal point is that there needs to be a defendant and plaintiff in any foreclosure case, and in these instances the identity and ownership of the plaintiff is in considerable doubt.  As a result the banks and investors need to go to court to clear up the dodgy titles, but this act in itself would expose the banks to huge losses which will bankrupt them.

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  • 238 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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