Welfare Reform Grand Plan =Drastically Lower Rates Of Pay

[Boom Boom]

Having read the white paper, it is abundantly clear the overall goal is to dramatically lower wages. The threat of sanctions against claimants means that as long as the job pays minimum wage, and falls within your skill base, you are obligated to take it. Why bother outsourcing when you can simply advertise java developer jobs for NMW and wait for the employment service to deliver your staff to you?

[ken_ichikawa]

Having read the white paper, it is abundantly clear the overall goal is to dramatically lower wages. The threat of sanctions against claimants means that as long as the job pays minimum wage, and falls within your skill base, you are obligated to take it. Why bother outsourcing when you can simply advertise java developer jobs for NMW and wait for the employment service to deliver your staff to you?

Kind of short sighted tbh. There is a phrase about peanuts, and monkeys which comes to mind here.

[petetong]

Kind of short sighted tbh. There is a phrase about peanuts, and monkeys which comes to mind here.

Yep, null pointers galore

[LJAR]

welfare reform = drastically lower welfare bill (hopefully), more people working, lower taxes in the long run and more economic growth as a result.

more importantly it could mean a much simpler tax system and more joined up thinking in the long run.

[Olebrum]

If you think it will mean lower taxes you are dead wrong.

This country is on the rack for trillions, where do you think the money

will come from?

[Injin]

If you think it will mean lower taxes you are dead wrong.

This country is on the rack for trillions, where do you think the money

will come from?

This is about upping the taxes and giving less back.

And Boom is right, making everyone poorer but the rentiers is exactly the plan.

[Self Employed Youth]

I've just finished reading it, and THIS WEEK is on the TV.

That nob who presents it said the only people who watch this show is those who have been sat on their **** all day and are too lazy to change the channel. I had to laugh, I've had a lazy day you see, so much so, the only time I got up off my **** I went to the local shop and asked for beer without paying until tomorrow to save me the walk to the cash machine .

Then Trisha comes on and there's some dodgy sketch. And I'll have the people at this week know that my living room is considerably bigger, my plasma is 32" not 15 (like the ASDA netto ones) and it stands in front of my older 32" CRT, that I have 2 sofas not one, and that the view outside the window is one of trees, not high density london flats!

Oh, well back to the job hunt tomorrow.

From the spending review it appears I will be affected yet again by the highest marginal tax rates and thus have a low incentive to work.

"While fraud can never be condoned, we must also recognise that the current system can incentivise fraud as the most rational option for those who are on benefits but want to work." - white paper...

The marginal tax rates I currently face in % are (over the first £150 earned per week), 100, 85, 96, 76, 96. (96 and 76 soon to be 97, 77 with the NI increase in January)

With Universal credit they will be reduced to 65, 77, 97 (over the first £150 earned per week). For me, part time work under 16 hours shall finally pay me some £1.60ph worked, that's about it, the good old work incentive.

I can't help but think,

"While fraud can never be condoned, we must also recognise that the current system can incentivise fraud as the most rational option for those who are on benefits but want to work." - white paper...

It does seem to be a policy to drive/keep some wages low.

[Self Employed Youth]

If you think it will mean lower taxes you are dead wrong.

This country is on the rack for trillions, where do you think the money

will come from?

A good few decades of printy, printy.

When were googolillions in debt we can do the same

[long time lurking]

welfare reform = drastically lower welfare bill (hopefully), more people working, lower taxes in the long run and more economic growth as a result.

more importantly it could mean a much simpler tax system and more joined up thinking in the long run.

I know nothing about I.T but after 20 odd years of the c.s.a`s system which cost 10`s of millions {and have never worked as it was suppose too} I just cannot see them ever{successfully} integrating the tax system, N.I and 30 different benefits on to one system which will be run over the Internet .

Also with out face to face interviews I think it will be wide open to fraud just like the online working tax credit system was

All puff and no blow if you ask me ,mind you they the got 8 years to sort it out providing the win next time round

[Traktion]

It seems to me that the NMW is responsible for some of the unemployment at the low paid end and having 'voluntary' work for benefits is the result. Instead of a sliding scale down to £0 per hour, we instead have two low tier wages - NMW and 'voluntary' (read: forced) work for benefits.

Wouldn't it be better to just scrap NMW and let the market find the wage rates?

NMW isn't low on a global scale. It's just the cost of living (shelter) which is high.

[wonderpup]

Wouldn't it be better to just scrap NMW and let the market find the wage rates?

NMW isn't low on a global scale. It's just the cost of living (shelter) which is high.

You kind of answered your own question. The market is good at pricing commodities- but commodities don't have a need for shelter.

[Injin]

You kind of answered your own question. The market is good at pricing commodities- but commodities don't have a need for shelter.

Commodites aren't being forced out of the market at gunpoint.

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

It seems to me that the NMW is responsible for some of the unemployment at the low paid end and having 'voluntary' work for benefits is the result. Instead of a sliding scale down to £0 per hour, we instead have two low tier wages - NMW and 'voluntary' (read: forced) work for benefits.

Wouldn't it be better to just scrap NMW and let the market find the wage rates?

NMW isn't low on a global scale. It's just the cost of living (shelter) which is high.

I'd agree.  If the NMW were lower, it would be very easy for me or you to go and just set up a company doing something useful and equally we'd probably use more personal and domestic services.  I'm not suggesting a return to upstairs downstairs, but just the creation of jobs appropriate for people with those sorts of skills.  

Equally the market would respond to their needs and produce cheaper goods and services that they could use.Instead we had the poor priced out of housing by LHA which just ends up in the pockets of land lords, quite literally housing was put beyond their reach, by the state pumping in cash.

[Damik]

Having read the white paper, it is abundantly clear the overall goal is to dramatically lower wages. The threat of sanctions against claimants means that as long as the job pays minimum wage, and falls within your skill base, you are obligated to take it. Why bother outsourcing when you can simply advertise java developer jobs for NMW and wait for the employment service to deliver your staff to you?

why do not you tell this story to people who work already years for the minimal wage ???

they do their bit, they pay some tax, they wake up every morning and very often it is a hard manual work !

why the unemployed should be chosen one and do not need to do it?

are the unemployed better than these working on minimal wage ???

[Damik]

If you think it will mean lower taxes you are dead wrong.

This country is on the rack for trillions, where do you think the money

will come from?

first the 13% deficit must be cut; then the taxes can be lowered; it is good idea to make the system simpler and the state smaller ...

[Damik]

It seems to me that the NMW is responsible for some of the unemployment at the low paid end and having 'voluntary' work for benefits is the result. Instead of a sliding scale down to £0 per hour, we instead have two low tier wages - NMW and 'voluntary' (read: forced) work for benefits.

Wouldn't it be better to just scrap NMW and let the market find the wage rates?

NMW isn't low on a global scale. It's just the cost of living (shelter) which is high.

the main problem is that life on benefits is much more better than life on the minimal wage .....

the 2nd main problem is that you are motivated to have more children on benefits and less children on minimal wage ...

if it does not change soon the state will collapse and we will get to the middle age again ...

but it seems that the citizens got the message right and decided last elections what to do. God bless them!

[Damik]

I'd agree. If the NMW were lower, it would be very easy for me or you to go and just set up a company doing something useful and equally we'd probably use more personal and domestic services. I'm not suggesting a return to upstairs downstairs, but just the creation of jobs appropriate for people with those sorts of skills.

Equally the market would respond to their needs and produce cheaper goods and services that they could use.Instead we had the poor priced out of housing by LHA which just ends up in the pockets of land lords, quite literally housing was put beyond their reach, by the state pumping in cash.

this is correct. if you provide same or better housing to people for free than the working one, nobody will be motivated to actually work .... so simple ... why work if you are better off with HB ?????

[Damik]

You kind of answered your own question. The market is good at pricing commodities- but commodities don't have a need for shelter.

the shelter and food must be provided to one who can not find a work ... but quality of this can not exceed leaving conditions of people on minimal wages ... otherwise nobody will work and system will collapse ....

[Damik]

It seems to me that the NMW is responsible for some of the unemployment at the low paid end and having 'voluntary' work for benefits is the result. Instead of a sliding scale down to £0 per hour, we instead have two low tier wages - NMW and 'voluntary' (read: forced) work for benefits.

Wouldn't it be better to just scrap NMW and let the market find the wage rates?

NMW isn't low on a global scale. It's just the cost of living (shelter) which is high.

I do not understand the function of the NMW anyway as if you ask it is going to be topped up with HB, which in London can be upto £2000 pm .... I do not understand that people still actually work in London .... they would be really better off on benefits ... and working cash to hand in their free time ...

[Damik]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...Show_11_11_2010

55mins 05 secs in.

Here's what a benefit scrounger thinks of these proposed work schemes........it aint pretty. :angry:

Jesus .... why would you do it to tax payer? it is not tax payer money, it is the goverment money ...

[fluffy666]

I do not understand the function of the NMW anyway as if you ask it is going to be topped up with HB, which in London can be upto £2000 pm .... I do not understand that people still actually work in London .... they would be really better off on benefits ... and working cash to hand in their free time ...

We used to have this thing called 'Council housing' to deal with this problem. To be honest, unless we have a major council house building program put in place, I don't see how any benefit reform can work. But take housing costs out of the equation and even NMW needs little topping up. (for a family, for an individual NMW + free housing would give a decent lifestyle)

[1888]

I cannot figure out if this will end in a move to the extreme left or the extreme right

for many voters .I can see the backlash coming for the immigrant community who are prepared to work

for less than the nmw being accused of stealing our jobs etc etc.The serfs will be left fighting each other for scraps while the

rich benefit from a slave workforce with little rights ,its almost as if it was planned this way.

[Damik]

We used to have this thing called 'Council housing' to deal with this problem. To be honest, unless we have a major council house building program put in place, I don't see how any benefit reform can work. But take housing costs out of the equation and even NMW needs little topping up. (for a family, for an individual NMW + free housing would give a decent lifestyle)

well mobile house costs only 20k and 1000s of Britons have been working, saving, purchasing and happily leaving in mobile houses for ages ... it seems to me good enough even for the chosen one (HB recipients ....)

you would just need to build a police station and a social service office in the middle ...

[Damik]

I cannot figure out if this will end in a move to the extreme left or the extreme right

for many voters .I can see the backlash coming for the immigrant community who are prepared to work

for less than the nmw being accused of stealing our jobs etc etc.The serfs will be left fighting each other for scraps while the

rich benefit from a slave workforce with little rights ,its almost as if it was planned this way.

agreed that high immigration in the recession is a recipe for social disaster ... politicians forget that people are animals living in the social wolf packs based on origin, language, race and religion ...

[Traktion]

You kind of answered your own question. The market is good at pricing commodities- but commodities don't have a need for shelter.

The government sets the price of shelter through planning regulations, taxation bias and a state backed banking system. The market is just responding accordingly (rent seekers move in, huge state backed loans appear, land banks are formed etc).