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Empty Flats - Greedy Landlords

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I 'phoned the agent today re: this place. I could do with a move into town, as I expect to have to travel a fair bit more on business in the new year so I want to be within a reasonable distance of the station.

There's no way I'm paying £850/month for that (OK, I expect it look cheap to southeast folks, but not here), so I asked the agent whether the landlord might be flexible after two months on the market. I explained that I tick all the right boxes (mature, single, professional, no encumbrances, could offer six months up-front subject to checks on landlord). The agent told me no. Not only had they already been through that loop trying to push the landlord down, they'd done it for a previous tenant who had walked rather than take an increase. The landlord had lost an existing tenant over it!

I said OK, I'm well clear of that, it can remain empty. Agent agreed.

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I 'phoned the agent today re: this place. I could do with a move into town, as I expect to have to travel a fair bit more on business in the new year so I want to be within a reasonable distance of the station.

There's no way I'm paying £850/month for that (OK, I expect it look cheap to southeast folks, but not here), so I asked the agent whether the landlord might be flexible after two months on the market. I explained that I tick all the right boxes (mature, single, professional, no encumbrances, could offer six months up-front subject to checks on landlord). The agent told me no. Not only had they already been through that loop trying to push the landlord down, they'd done it for a previous tenant who had walked rather than take an increase. The landlord had lost an existing tenant over it!

I said OK, I'm well clear of that, it can remain empty. Agent agreed.

Expensive, but a nice flat. Someone is busy converting an old bond house about half a mile along the waterfront from my place. If they look as good as that one, I might have a look myself. Once the price reductions have kicked in, of course!

Edited by AThirdWay

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He's not that greedy, because he's not getting anything.

The fool.

People are going to have to learn a very difficult lesson.

I predict it will remain unoccupied for several more months, until they get desparate. They will then put it up for sale, at 2008 prices, whilst keeping it available for rent.

After several more months, the property may well go to auction, not meet the reserve.

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I remember looking at a place that was something like £1500-1600 a month. Was a nice place but not worth that much and since it had been empty for over 6 months it was clear that others agreed. I spoke to the letting agent about offering less but the LL wouldn't accept. As far as I know the place never got let but I did see it on rightmove for sale a while ago, at an equally stupid price.

Personally, I would prefer something rather than nothing but there you go.

I remember offering £100 less than was being asked for another place but the LL wouldn't accept. That place stayed empty for another 2-3 months. He lost far more with the void than he would have by accepting my offer. Apparently LL's don't do calculators :lol:

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I remember looking at a place that was something like £1500-1600 a month. Was a nice place but not worth that much and since it had been empty for over 6 months it was clear that others agreed. I spoke to the letting agent about offering less but the LL wouldn't accept. As far as I know the place never got let but I did see it on rightmove for sale a while ago, at an equally stupid price.

Personally, I would prefer something rather than nothing but there you go.

I remember offering £100 less than was being asked for another place but the LL wouldn't accept. That place stayed empty for another 2-3 months. He lost far more with the void than he would have by accepting my offer. Apparently LL's don't do calculators :lol:

For a big LL, empty property might be thought a price worth paying to push up prices on the portfolio as a whole. Monopolist behaviour with a history of being richly rewarded by our tax-and-benefits system.

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For a big LL, empty property might be thought a price worth paying to push up prices on the portfolio as a whole. Monopolist behaviour with a history of being richly rewarded by our tax-and-benefits system.

Talking of which, has anybody heard any news recently about our favorite "love to hate" numberphile Ashford couple?

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I 'phoned the agent today re: this place. I could do with a move into town, as I expect to have to travel a fair bit more on business in the new year so I want to be within a reasonable distance of the station.

There's no way I'm paying £850/month for that (OK, I expect it look cheap to southeast folks, but not here), so I asked the agent whether the landlord might be flexible after two months on the market. I explained that I tick all the right boxes (mature, single, professional, no encumbrances, could offer six months up-front subject to checks on landlord). The agent told me no. Not only had they already been through that loop trying to push the landlord down, they'd done it for a previous tenant who had walked rather than take an increase. The landlord had lost an existing tenant over it!

I said OK, I'm well clear of that, it can remain empty. Agent agreed.

Surprising to see anything in Royal William Yard that isn't through Urban Splash (the original developer).

I've had recent experience of dealing with agencies in the area. I would suggest you ask them what their fees are before committing to anything. One recently quoted me nearly 500 in fees including a £150 "lease fee" and a £60 "checking out fee". All plus VAT of course! I was half expecting them to ask me to chip in towards their Christmas party after that.

[edit]

Agents tend to be very creative with the photos and it may not be as large as it first looks. Picture 2 seems to be all you get for living room and picture 8 is of the inside of a wardrobe - how nice! the last one is of the building corridors not the flat itself.

Edited by captain_mandrake

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What is the problem here?

We are all profit maximisers in a way. So the landlord wants to maximise his profit? Why is that bad?

The market is a game. As a buyer you try to pay as little as possible, as a seller you try to charge as much as possible.

And the kicker of the game is that if you you dont offer enough as a buyer, then you end up going without, and if you charge too much as a seller, you end up not selling. All participants in a market are free to make their own decisions about what price they want to trade at. Altogether the market ends up at a price.

So this guy has charged too much, and is ending up with nothing. Thats his decision and is up to him.

If I were to meet him, I would suggest that he raises his price because the current price is clearly not attracting the right type of tenant.

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I 'phoned the agent today re: this place. I could do with a move into town, as I expect to have to travel a fair bit more on business in the new year so I want to be within a reasonable distance of the station.

There's no way I'm paying £850/month for that (OK, I expect it look cheap to southeast folks, but not here), so I asked the agent whether the landlord might be flexible after two months on the market. I explained that I tick all the right boxes (mature, single, professional, no encumbrances, could offer six months up-front subject to checks on landlord). The agent told me no. Not only had they already been through that loop trying to push the landlord down, they'd done it for a previous tenant who had walked rather than take an increase. The landlord had lost an existing tenant over it!

I said OK, I'm well clear of that, it can remain empty. Agent agreed.

Ohhhhh it looks lovley. I have a viewing lined up for tommorrow. Thanks for the link. :D

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What is the problem here?

We are all profit maximisers in a way. So the landlord wants to maximise his profit? Why is that bad?

The market is a game. As a buyer you try to pay as little as possible, as a seller you try to charge as much as possible.

And the kicker of the game is that if you you dont offer enough as a buyer, then you end up going without, and if you charge too much as a seller, you end up not selling. All participants in a market are free to make their own decisions about what price they want to trade at. Altogether the market ends up at a price.

So this guy has charged too much, and is ending up with nothing. Thats his decision and is up to him.

If I were to meet him, I would suggest that he raises his price because the current price is clearly not attracting the right type of tenant.

You are clearly innumerate, you must work in the financial world. Your suggested "business model", sell nothing but do it at a high price was one that was beloved of many industries, in particular the airlines. Now thanks to Herb Kelleher they use the much more realistic, sell lots, but at a more realistic price.

Most people simply are unable to appreciate that a void is money you will never ever get back, it is an opportunity cost never to be repeated due to the fact that house rentals like airline seats are a time sensitive one off deal. Once today is over, today will never happen again, if you choose to earn zero as opposed to "something" then you are a fool. But then I think that designation applies to most people.

It's the same as going on strike, you cannot withdraw your labour for very long before you never realise your potential gains. Simple maths really.

800 + 800 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 850 + 850 + 850 + 850 + 850 + 850 = 6700

800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 = 9600

In order to make up the shortfall of 2900, you would need to be able to let out your property for almost the net 5 years at 850 without any further voids.

p.s. No such thing as a free market, the landlord is only being kept in his property due to government intervention, just as the rental market is distorted by the "swing" buyer, namely the government again. Our markets are as free as the Soviet Unions.

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Surprising to see anything in Royal William Yard that isn't through Urban Splash (the original developer).

I'd look at this with reasonable expectations at £850 <_<

Urban Splash sold most of them, including some to BTLs. I've tried to contact Urban Splash, and I get through to their national office without problems. But then they give me a number for the Plymouth office, and I've never managed to get through to a human on that one :blink: Bizarre!

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You are clearly innumerate, you must work in the financial world. Your suggested "business model", sell nothing but do it at a high price was one that was beloved of many industries, in particular the airlines. Now thanks to Herb Kelleher they use the much more realistic, sell lots, but at a more realistic price.

Most people simply are unable to appreciate that a void is money you will never ever get back, it is an opportunity cost never to be repeated due to the fact that house rentals like airline seats are a time sensitive one off deal. Once today is over, today will never happen again, if you choose to earn zero as opposed to "something" then you are a fool. But then I think that designation applies to most people.

It's the same as going on strike, you cannot withdraw your labour for very long before you never realise your potential gains. Simple maths really.

800 + 800 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 850 + 850 + 850 + 850 + 850 + 850 = 6700

800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 = 9600

In order to make up the shortfall of 2900, you would need to be able to let out your property for almost the net 5 years at 850 without any further voids.

p.s. No such thing as a free market, the landlord is only being kept in his property due to government intervention, just as the rental market is distorted by the "swing" buyer, namely the government again. Our markets are as free as the Soviet Unions.

Did you read my post?

"and if you charge too much as a seller, you end up not selling."

"So this guy has charged too much, and is ending up with nothing. "

Thanks for the maths lesson though mate.

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My mistake, consider yourself among the numerate few. My maths lecturer at Uni was probably the most numerate person I ever met. He used to regale us with amusing anecdotes of how he would outfox the simpletons that inhabit the world of finance. Although to be fair I've never met anyone who can outfox a bookie. Most people are innumerate, as well as illiterate (they might understand the words, but not the meaning, I guess that includes me then, doh!). Personally I don't think it's a coincidence as well educated people would be less likely to basic errors such as those that are made by anyone who deliberately maintains a void in the expectation that they will somehow make more money by increasing the price.

Obviously selling property is slightly different as the only calculation to make is based on opportunity costs and doesn't have the same time expiry problem.

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It's the same as going on strike, you cannot withdraw your labour for very long before you never realise your potential gains. Simple maths really.

800 + 800 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 850 + 850 + 850 + 850 + 850 + 850 = 6700

800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 + 800 = 9600

In order to make up the shortfall of 2900, you would need to be able to let out your property for almost the net 5 years at 850 without any further voids.

I was going to post a similar example. But you also have to include modernisation costs (paint, carpet etc.) that you need to spend on the property to the attract the next tenant.

Another cost for me is the Rental Property Agent's finding fee.

So for all my properties I do not put prices up while the tenant is in which is more economical in the long term.

Edited by A_Landlord

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Has the photographer put some kind of fish eye lens on his camera because all the photos look like they've been taken through the security peep-hole on my front door?

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I was going to post a similar example. But you also have to include modernisation costs (paint, carpet etc.) that you need to spend on the property to the attract the next tenant.

So for all my properties I do not put prices up while the tenant is in which is more economical in the long term.

I am afraid that you are making a mistake with this policy as well. You have to be prepared to lose sometimes, in order to maximise your profits.

Keeping the price low guarantees that you will sell all your stock. But that isnt profit maximising. You need to lose now and again, and not sell, just to know where the market price level is. If you win all the business you are going for, then unless you have inside information about what price the buyer will pay, then you are charging too little.

Of course if you have very few homes, or just one to rent out, this becomes more difficult. But if you have a lot, you need to push the envelope to find out what you can get away with.

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Of course if you have very few homes, or just one to rent out, this becomes more difficult. But if you have a lot, you need to push the envelope to find out what you can get away with.

Ooh, nasty!

It's possible that A_Landlord is a thoroughly evil b***er. But in the absence of evidence, I wouldn't go around making that kind of assumption. He might also be a perfectly decent person!

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Agents tend to be very creative with the photos and it may not be as large as it first looks. Picture 2 seems to be all you get for living room and picture 8 is of the inside of a wardrobe - how nice! the last one is of the building corridors not the flat itself.

not creative as such - making the floor boards look all bendy like that suggests they ought to do a night school course in photography.

Such blatant over-egging of the wide angles and long prespective shots just makes me think it must be a bot pokey inside.

Agreed on the corridors. That just smacks of desperation, if they couldn't find a few more angles to show of the "lovely, surprisingly spacious" interior of the actual apartment.

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Ooh, nasty!

It's possible that A_Landlord is a thoroughly evil b***er. But in the absence of evidence, I wouldn't go around making that kind of assumption. He might also be a perfectly decent person!

Business is business. You can be a nice person, and drive a hard bargain. After all, if you sell to the lowest bid, someone who wanted it more is denied it. Remember in the buy/sell game, the seller wants to maximise their price, the buyer minimise it. They meet somewhere in the middle. If they both play hard, you get a fair game. There is nothing evil in this, just so long as participants are not forced to accept a deal at a certain price. They will have to take into account what other actors might do, but as long as they are not coerced into a decision, freedom is maximised when every tries to get the best deal that they can.

Of course, if you are nice chap giving stuff away for far less than it is worth, you had better let me know first.

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But, but, aren't all landlords mortgage free, so voids aren't a problem?

I do wonder though. Theres a studio up for rent for an eye watering £575 PCM (not a new build) nearby, empty for 3 months, even the sign has blown over this weekend.

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Of course, if you are nice chap giving stuff away for far less than it is worth, you had better let me know first.

I give a great deal away for free. You're using some of it.

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He's not that greedy, because he's not getting anything.

The fool.

People are going to have to learn a very difficult lesson.

I predict it will remain unoccupied for several more months, until they get desparate. They will then put it up for sale, at 2008 prices, whilst keeping it available for rent.

After several more months, the property may well go to auction, not meet the reserve.

yep. times it by the estimated 150,000 btls in trouble already.

next 2 years will be a property and bankruptcy, banking bloodbath.

only gold and foil will save you.

.

Edited by right_freds_dead

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The UK should be due a rental crash, following austerity measures here in Romania, rents have decreased 33%. Anyone who didn't drop their rent saw their tenants decamp elsewhere, and you generally haggle your rent down 10% from the landlord's asking price. The flat I'm in was 750 E three years back, and I'm paying 500 E today.

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  • 152 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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