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We're Going After All Your Bank Details

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I predict all our bank details will be left on some civil servant's laptop on a train before the end of 2011

Ministers are seeking access to the bank details of virtually everyone in the country to crack down on the £5billion lost to fraud and error in the welfare system each year.

The Government is to change the law to require the banks and private companies to hand over details of earnings by millions on out-of-work benefits and tax credits.

The scheme will eventually be extended to cover all people in work, allowing HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) to reduce the massive errors seen in the tax system in recent years.

Access all areas: The scheme will eventually be extended to cover all people in work, allowing HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) to reduce the massive errors seen in the tax system in recent years

The move is likely to raise concerns about both privacy and data security, but

Whitehall sources insisted last night that all the information involved is already supposed to be passed to the Government.

One said: ‘About 94 per cent of employees and 97 per cent of benefit recipients get their earnings or benefits through the banking system – it contains all the data we need.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1327623/Ministers-demand-earnings-figures-crackdown-welfare-fraud.html

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And I used to think old people who kept money hidden in the house were crazy. When given a choice of depositing money in 'the system' or keeping it out of 'the system' oddly these days I'm favouring the latter.

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The seamless integration of the State and the Banksters.

Delivered to you by Dave, Osborne and Vince

I think we're starting to get a sense of what they mean by The Big Society and We're All In This Together now.

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How is this going to tackle benefit fraud? Most people who are on benefits and working get cash in hand for the work.

And how can your bank records alert the authorities that you're living with a "partner" when you've said you live alone, or that half the kids you're claiming for are living with somebody else or don't even exist?

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OK, so they have a suspect.

Ask the bank...WHERE DID YOU SEND THIS LAUNDERED MONEY TO?

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I though the ConDems were supposed to be reducing the size of government anyway? Just how many people are they going to need trawling through our banks details, how much is it going to cost and is the net return positive?

John Spartan: Why don't you just shove a leash up my ass?

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And I used to think old people who kept money hidden in the house were crazy. When given a choice of depositing money in 'the system' or keeping it out of 'the system' oddly these days I'm favouring the latter.

Yes, they are simply asking for it now. In the late eighties, early nineties I worked in bars, did painting and decorating and some other more fancy stuff, but everyone did everything cash in hand. I didn't use a bank account for a good few years. I was very young and off the radar and I have to admit, it felt good. The high end art gallery I worked in took cash.

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I notice it says it will apply to "virtually everyone". What's the betting it won't apply to Ministers and MPs. A certainty?

Edited by billybong

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How much more before we draw the line.

Starving children.

I notice it says it will apply to "virtually everyone". What's the betting it won't apply to Ministers and MPs. A certainty?

Or those paid to a legal entity in the Cayman Islands?

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As far as I can remember it was the banks who f%^ked the economy lets have the banks audited

If only, sadly the government is being held hostage by the banks.

The government's role seems to be one of a cashier that simply issues new gaming chips to the banks so they can go away and gamble. Should the banks fail to make a return they simply turn back up and ask for more chips and like the idiots they are, the government rolls over and obliges, talking money from us, the people.

The government should have kicked these clowns out of their own party when they part nationalised the banks, but instead they play the mouse in this cat and mouse game where they are always destined to lose. Sadly it's our money and our children's future they are putting up as collateral in this game.

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If only, sadly the government is being held hostage by the banks.

The government's role seems to be one of a cashier that simply issues new gaming chips to the banks so they can go away and gamble. Should the banks fail to make a return they simply turn back up and ask for more chips and like the idiots they are, the government rolls over and obliges, talking money from us, the people.

The government should have kicked these clowns out of their own party when they part nationalised the banks, but instead they play the mouse in this cat and mouse game where they are always destined to lose. Sadly it's our money and our children's future they are putting up as collateral in this game.

Too true.

The way Sweden solved their banking crisis was a blueprint that the US and UK should have followed but crash Gordon "saved the world bankers" instead

Sweden did not just bail out its financial institutions by having the government take over the bad debts. It extracted pounds of flesh from bank shareholders before writing checks. Banks had to write down losses and issue warrants to the government.

That strategy held banks responsible and turned the government into an owner. When distressed assets were sold, the profits flowed to taxpayers, and the government was able to recoup more money later by selling its shares in the companies as well.

“If I go into a bank,” said Bo Lundgren, who was Sweden’s minister for fiscal and financial affairs at the time, “I’d rather get equity so that there is some upside for the taxpayer.”

....

A few American commentators have proposed that the United States government extract equity from banks as a price for their rescue. But it does not seem to be under serious consideration yet in the Bush administration or Congress.

The reason is not quite clear. The government has already swapped its sovereign guarantee for equity in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the mortgage finance institutions, and the American International Group, the global insurance giant.

Putting taxpayers on the hook without anything in return could be a mistake, said Urban Backstrom, a senior Swedish finance ministry official at the time. “The public will not support a plan if you leave the former shareholders with anything,” he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/23/business/worldbusiness/23krona.html

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Dear Mr XXXXX,

Our records show you purchased X Ounces of gold bullion between the dates XX-XX-XX and XX-XX-XX.

As per UN executive order 23067-45, personal gold possession is now illegal under International law. Henceforth please report to your local police station within the next week and hand over your personal gold holdings to the duty officer who will issue you a receipt.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Your faithfully,

HMRC.

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The seamless integration of the State and the Banksters.

Delivered to you by Dave, Osborne and Vince

I think we're starting to get a sense of what they mean by The Big Society and We're All In This Together now.

Revenge of the nerds.

Blame the Telegraph.

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The way Sweden solved their banking crisis was a blueprint that the US and UK should have followed but crash Gordon "saved the world bankers" instead

Yes but Gordon didn't have to face Swedish taxpayers:

vikings_screen001.jpg

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Dear Mr XXXXX,

Our records show you purchased X Ounces of gold bullion between the dates XX-XX-XX and XX-XX-XX.

As per UN executive order 23067-45, personal gold possession is now illegal under International law. Henceforth please report to your local police station within the next week and hand over your personal gold holdings to the duty officer who will issue you a receipt.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Your faithfully,

HMRC.

Thanks for confirming that gold-bugs are tin hat nutters.

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This is yet another attempt by the Revenue/Treasury to have a centralised deductions system. If I were a tin foil hat wearing fellow I'd almost go so far as to suggest the Revenue are making more and more mistakes intentionally - to force the country into the deduction system they believe is the answer to all their problems.

We heard a month or two ago about the tax gap, again. That is to say the difference between what the Revenue collect and what the Revenue think they should have collected. Again and again they display the thought that there is loads of unpaid tax out there. We wouldn't be in so much debt if they hadn't convinced Brown as Chancellor that the 'gap' could be closed by successively more complicated wheezes from the Revenue. Fiddling with the tax system every year. Offshore disclosure that brought in bugger all. Now they are trying that again but with Swiss bank accounts. The figures given for the 'gap' are quite close to the annual deficit Brown started making us pay from about 2002 to the financial crisis. If he had just spent what the Revenue were collecting rather than what they said they should have been collecting we would have been much better placed to weather the storm.(Might not have had one, even.)

The Revenue shouldn't be making further inroads into our private lives until they have set their house in order. There are millions of cases where taxpayers have been given wrong demands that are not being dealt with. The answer from the Revenue is always 'Look at our new computer system!' and it never works as advertised. Make taxation simpler and you'd close many of the loopholes people who can afford accountants push their income through. There would be no need for higher taxation and no need for greater invasion of our privacy. Simpler taxes would also make the Revenue cheaper to run and mistakes less frequent. The tax credit (which isn't a tax credit) system is a shambles. Get back to just adding to personal allowances rather than buying votes with voters' own money.(It really does grate that the tax credit adverts is money falling from the sky. FFS leaving the money in our pockets is cheaper and easier than taking it from us just to give us most of it back.)

In this instance while the initial target is a deserving one (benefit fraud), that the Government is admitting it will widen the scope of their authority to 'virtually everyone' is something that needs heeding. This idea *is* a slippery slope.

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I notice it says it will apply to "virtually everyone". What's the betting it won't apply to Ministers and MPs. A certainty?

That might be a security risk, we couldn't have that happening someone might leak it.

Celebrities will also end up being exempt too.

It will only apply to the little people.

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That might be a security risk, we couldn't have that happening someone might leak it.

Celebrities will also end up being exempt too.

It will only apply to the little people.

Dont trust them, lets say you've been saving for 20 years they'll ask you for proof, do you have any?until you do, it could be taken away from you, until you can prove it. the expense scandal has proven that you can not trust those in power.

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Cashless system in Uk in next 15 years.:unsure:

Yep, cheques gone in the next ten years; digital transactions to replace cash. It's then easy to remove you from the system / track your every movement...

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I very much doubt if this has anything to do with reducing benefit fraud. The majority of benefit fraudsters probably operate by claiming benefits through the system and supplementing them by working cash-in-hand in the black economy anyway.

I suspect that is has more to do with setting up automated systems to catch low-transaction tax evasion. For example, I carry out occasional consultancy and writing work in addition to my day job. Most of it pays between £50 and £500 per job, and nets me around £2-3k a year. I am almost always paid gross. I do declare and pay the tax on it, but I'm sure that many people in my situation do not. An HMRC system that links straight into the banks' computers and automatically identifies occasional but regular payments of this type into an account that are clearly not the holder's main salary, thereby triggering a further investigation, could net them quite a bit in unpaid tax, I'd have thought.

Incidentally, I've had two overseas Ebay orders stopped by customs and had to pay the VAT on them this year, for the first time since 2005 and for only the third time since I started buying such stuff around a decade ago. They're obviously going after low value, high volume revenue more aggressively than in the past.

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Yep, cheques gone in the next ten years; digital transactions to replace cash. It's then easy to remove you from the system / track your every movement...

The banking system makes me laugh. The number of times in the last year I've resorted to writing a cheque or withdrawing cash to transfer money is just ridiculous. They are all at sea with the basics so going completely paperless will be a disaster.

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  • 146 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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