Get Out There And Don't Buy!

[We’re all in this together]

Just had yet another derisory offer refused.

Good.

Asking price: £370,000; my offer: £280,000 (been on the market, ooh, ages, needs a lot of work on the roof, well a bit, don't like those leaky portakabin type things sticking out).

Response: you need to up the offer by £80k. Bad arithmetic or they just dropped £10k. Just like that. My response: offer remains on the table, lovely house, needs work, blah blah, let me know if things should change in the New Year.

Result: vendor grinds teeth, then falls to sobbing quietly in the corner.

Fight the VI's. All bears must get out there and make derisory offers, don't be shy, don't be embarrassed, be bold, be resolute. Test the ability of your vendor's estate agent to smile and whistle under all difficulties, as they dutifully pass on your derisory offer and send you the written reply.

Going to see another one on Thursday. I see it as a mission. I'll let you know how I get on.

[Bruce Banner]

Your offer was only 24% below asking price, not derisory at all in the current market.

[We’re all in this together]

Your offer was only 24% below asking price, not derisory at all in the current market.

Sorry, Bruce

You're quite right. I shall endeavour to be even more derisory in future.

[Scott Sando]

Just had yet another derisory offer refused.

Good.

Asking price: £370,000; my offer: £280,000 (been on the market, ooh, ages, needs a lot of work on the roof, well a bit, don't like those leaky portakabin type things sticking out).

Response: you need to up the offer by £80k. Bad arithmetic or they just dropped £10k. Just like that. My response: offer remains on the table, lovely house, needs work, blah blah, let me know if things should change in the New Year.

Result: vendor grinds teeth, then falls to sobbing quietly in the corner.

Fight the VI's. All bears must get out there and make derisory offers, don't be shy, don't be embarrassed, be bold, be resolute. Test the ability of your vendor's estate agent to smile and whistle under all difficulties, as they dutifully pass on your derisory offer and send you the written reply.

Going to see another one on Thursday. I see it as a mission. I'll let you know how I get on.

Bravo!

[bumpy]

How is your friendly EA taking to being pissed about?

There might come a time when he refuses to show you round.

[winkie]

How is your friendly EA taking to being pissed about?

There might come a time when he refuses to show you round.

He only gets paid when he has sold it.....someone wants to buy it....can't see there is a problem.

No sale no fee.

[Bruce Banner]

The trouble is - you won't be able to pull that stunt twice. Offering 10% below is one thing - but next time you want to do a viewing through the same agent - and he remembers you - he'll tell his vendor 'we've got a timewaster that wants to view your property - he looked at one the other day and offered 280k on a 350k property - can you be bothered to tidy up to show him the house?'

If it were me, as the vendor, and I've been in that position a good few times in my life, I would say to the agent 'could you tell him to feck off on my behalf - thanks for the heads up'.

Even if you get an offer accepted the agent will warn the vendor not to trust you.

That's not how it works though. I haven't placed any offers for a few years because I really don't want to buy at the moment. But, when I was placing cash offers of 25% to 35% below asking in 2005, the EAs didn't like it at all but realised that if it were accepted they would make some money.

One offer offer of 25% below asking was nearly accepted though, that was a narrow escape as I'd changed my mind. Fortunately, the EA tried to talk me up by £5K and I pulled out immediately.

[Papa Serf]

In my view houses are currently asking 10% over 2007 prices, so you need to knock that off straight away. Then another 10% to get to where we are now. Then another 10% of negotiation. So your offer was just fine.

[spiney]

Fight the VI's. All bears must get out there and make derisory offers, don't be shy, don't be embarrassed, be bold, be resolute. Test the ability of your vendor's estate agent to smile and whistle under all difficulties, as they dutifully pass on your derisory offer and send you the written reply.

Yes a fun sport.

Will enjoy this over the coming months.

Spiney.

[Scott Sando]

He only gets paid when he has sold it.....someone wants to buy it....can't see there is a problem.

No sale no fee.

exactly, there talking about EA like there god.

[shindigger]

The trouble is - you won't be able to pull that stunt twice. Offering 10% below is one thing - but next time you want to do a viewing through the same agent - and he remembers you - he'll tell his vendor 'we've got a timewaster that wants to view your property - he looked at one the other day and offered 280k on a 350k property - can you be bothered to tidy up to show him the house?'

If it were me, as the vendor, and I've been in that position a good few times in my life, I would say to the agent 'could you tell him to feck off on my behalf - thanks for the heads up'.

Even if you get an offer accepted the agent will warn the vendor not to trust you.

Hes bound to remember him/her.

Its probably the only punter theyve had all week.

I recently visited 2 brances of Connells in nth Dorset to discuss a repo on a Saturday PM.

Tumbleweed.

[harumph]

How is your friendly EA taking to being pissed about?

There might come a time when he refuses to show you round.

I think the point in this thread is that if ALL of us and anyone we know who is viewing properties was putting in these "daft" offers then they would no longer stand out as the "daft offers". If 10 people view a property and offer 280k and it's valued at 370k then the estate agent HAS to think "the MARKET value of this property is £280k." That's how markets work.

All the time we live in fear of making these offers the market remains stalled.

Perhaps we should have an area (perhaps in Regional House Prices) where people could get together to make low offers of similar amounts for EACH others properties we are interested in. If I could find 9 other people to offer LOWER than me over the next 3 months then perhaps in Jan or Feb they would sell to me. I would be happy to do the same for other people in my local area - but not TOO local, as you obviously can't be registered at the same agencies as the ones you are seeking your own property through.

I am going to put in an offer of £1m for a house that is up for £1.5 in Jan. It has been on for 6 months and the estate agent has said that we are the only people to have viewed it. 33% off - and I feel a million quid should buy you a LOT, and this is NOT a WOW pad (ok, well WOW ish).

If I could get a few people to offer 890, 900, 925 in the meantime, surely that would have an effect on the vendors mental game, as well as pushing the estate agent to encourage the acceptance of the "high" offer of 1M?

If sentiment keeps going the way it has lately it's only a waiting gaming anyway I guess. We just don't LIKE the waiting game!

HARUMPH!

PS I watched another place that is just a little too far away for our liking come down from 1.65m in 2008 to 1M now. I offered 900k for it in 2008 - and they laughed in my face. Won't be long now before he wishes he'd taken that 900k. I've decided it's too far out, so wouldn't even give them £750 for it now.

[winkie]

No, we're talking as people with some experience of life - I've bought and sold loads of times.

If you seriously think you can go around town making appointments with all and sundry offering 25% below asking until the local market capitulates and accepts that, really, you were right after all - well, time to head back to the playground I think.

...people have friends you know...enough offer below they might start questioning the price and the current market.

[Bruce Banner]

Well, your experiences are different from mine. If I went to view a property around here for 400k and offered 300k - I'd be lucky not to be told to feck off and the agent would definitely not bother contacting me with details of anything new on the market etc.

Funnily enough, it may well be the case that someone EVENTUALLY accepts 25% below the original asking price - but not before they have been through a process of rejected offers, price dropped in stages a few times, long periods with no viewings etc etc.

And, of course, that is based on the vendor being able to take the hit - in terms either of not being in negative equity or being able to find somewhere to buy where another vendor will drop 25%.

The only feckers that can afford a 25% hit are the baby boomers and they don't seem to be in any hurry to take their medicene.

The property market is a sticky bastaard on the way down. In fact it seems that 'house price crash' is an oxymoron. Slow, tortuous, reluctant, 'at the point of a gun' house price correction is more like it.

That's fine with me, I'm paying less in rent than the interest I'd lose on the money I'd have to draw out of the bank to buy the house I'm renting and I have no maintenance costs etc. Falling house prices are the icing on the cake .

[bumpy]

He only gets paid when he has sold it.....someone wants to buy it....can't see there is a problem.

No sale no fee.

He is in the game to make money, and time is money. So showing obvious time wasters around is not what he wants to do.

[winkie]

He is in the game to make money, and time is money. So showing obvious time wasters around is not what he wants to do.

When did an estate agent show anyone around?...why would a prospective purchaser be a time waster? Viewing houses is I would imagine be the last thing someone would wish to do to entertain themselves.

[Bruce Banner]

He is in the game to make money, and time is money. So showing obvious time wasters around is not what he wants to do.

A cash buyer offering 25% below asking price is an obvious time waster? I think not.

If an EA refused to show me around a house I'd be on the phone to his group MD within the hour. One EA tried it once, his tone was very different a few hours later when he phoned me back after speaking with his regional manager who had just had his ear bent by the boss .

[cybernoid]

Nice to have a hobby I suppose.

That kind of response from the ea does amuse me, they seem to think the power is with the seller. The buyers have the money you need, the sellers have a house they can't sell, that hardly presents the buyer with a unique opportunity. Buyers are a bit thinner on the ground.

Hey ho, they obviously just aren't serious about selling. Who is the time waster here?

[REP013]

As I wrote previously.

20% below asking is common in Reading - yep, the South East!

[We’re all in this together]

I think the point in this thread is that if ALL of us and anyone we know who is viewing properties was putting in these "daft" offers then they would no longer stand out as the "daft offers". If 10 people view a property and offer 280k and it's valued at 370k then the estate agent HAS to think "the MARKET value of this property is £280k." That's how markets work.

All the time we live in fear of making these offers the market remains stalled.

Perhaps we should have an area (perhaps in Regional House Prices) where people could get together to make low offers of similar amounts for EACH others properties we are interested in. If I could find 9 other people to offer LOWER than me over the next 3 months then perhaps in Jan or Feb they would sell to me. I would be happy to do the same for other people in my local area - but not TOO local, as you obviously can't be registered at the same agencies as the ones you are seeking your own property through.

I am going to put in an offer of £1m for a house that is up for £1.5 in Jan. It has been on for 6 months and the estate agent has said that we are the only people to have viewed it. 33% off - and I feel a million quid should buy you a LOT, and this is NOT a WOW pad (ok, well WOW ish).

If I could get a few people to offer 890, 900, 925 in the meantime, surely that would have an effect on the vendors mental game, as well as pushing the estate agent to encourage the acceptance of the "high" offer of 1M?

If sentiment keeps going the way it has lately it's only a waiting gaming anyway I guess. We just don't LIKE the waiting game!

HARUMPH!

PS I watched another place that is just a little too far away for our liking come down from 1.65m in 2008 to 1M now. I offered 900k for it in 2008 - and they laughed in my face. Won't be long now before he wishes he'd taken that 900k. I've decided it's too far out, so wouldn't even give them £750 for it now.

Thanks, Harumph, couldn't have put it better - sentiment is the thing. I am very serious, it takes a bit of brass neck, but you can't worry what others might think. It's time for a fight back. We need a lot of active, aggressive bears. Bears are hunters. Go in for the kill.

[nohpc]

Just had yet another derisory offer refused.

Good.

Asking price: £370,000; my offer: £280,000 (been on the market, ooh, ages, needs a lot of work on the roof, well a bit, don't like those leaky portakabin type things sticking out).

Response: you need to up the offer by £80k. Bad arithmetic or they just dropped £10k. Just like that. My response: offer remains on the table, lovely house, needs work, blah blah, let me know if things should change in the New Year.

Result: vendor grinds teeth, then falls to sobbing quietly in the corner.Fight the VI's. All bears must get out there and make derisory offers, don't be shy, don't be embarrassed, be bold, be resolute. Test the ability of your vendor's estate agent to smile and whistle under all difficulties, as they dutifully pass on your derisory offer and send you the written reply.

Going to see another one on Thursday. I see it as a mission. I'll let you know how I get on.

LOL I think you might have fantasised about the bit in bold.

As to the tactics in general they seem like a colossal waste of time.

If you want to get property on the cheap then you need to go to auction. Vendors won't be "gritting their teeth" they'll just ignore the offer even if it means chasing the market down.

[nohpc]

That's fine with me, I'm paying less in rent than the interest I'd lose on the money I'd have to draw out of the bank to buy the house I'm renting and I have no maintenance costs etc. Falling house prices are the icing on the cake .

It's not fine with me. I'm paying twice the amount to rent a 2 bed terrace in Leicester than what I'm paying on the interest on my 200g mortgage in London.

[We’re all in this together]

LOL I think you might have fantasised about the bit in bold.

As to the tactics in general they seem like a colossal waste of time.

If you want to get property on the cheap then you need to go to auction. Vendors won't be "gritting their teeth" they'll just ignore the offer even if it means chasing the market down.

You're absolutely right, I was not peeping through the window, it was just my imagination, running away with me.

A lot of things are a clossal waste of time, yet we still do them.

Couple of technical points about negotiating: if you want to win, you go in aggressive. Your protagonist might scoff, so what? This one wavered. I didn't, but, rule one, I left the door open. I know what I'm willing to pay, they don't. They are, like nearly all vendors, asking a ludicrously high price based on unrealistic expectations. The patient invariably win over the impatient.

[tim123]

I think the point in this thread is that if ALL of us and anyone we know who is viewing properties was putting in these "daft" offers then they would no longer stand out as the "daft offers". If 10 people view a property and offer 280k and it's valued at 370k then the estate agent HAS to think "the MARKET value of this property is £280k." That's how markets work.

All the time we live in fear of making these offers the market remains stalled.

Perhaps we should have an area (perhaps in Regional House Prices) where people could get together to make low offers of similar amounts for EACH others properties we are interested in. If I could find 9 other people to offer LOWER than me over the next 3 months then perhaps in Jan or Feb they would sell to me. I would be happy to do the same for other people in my local area - but not TOO local, as you obviously can't be registered at the same agencies as the ones you are seeking your own property through.

I am going to put in an offer of £1m for a house that is up for £1.5 in Jan. It has been on for 6 months and the estate agent has said that we are the only people to have viewed it. 33% off - and I feel a million quid should buy you a LOT, and this is NOT a WOW pad (ok, well WOW ish).

If I could get a few people to offer 890, 900, 925 in the meantime, surely that would have an effect on the vendors mental game, as well as pushing the estate agent to encourage the acceptance of the "high" offer of 1M?

If sentiment keeps going the way it has lately it's only a waiting gaming anyway I guess. We just don't LIKE the waiting game!

HARUMPH!

PS I watched another place that is just a little too far away for our liking come down from 1.65m in 2008 to 1M now. I offered 900k for it in 2008 - and they laughed in my face. Won't be long now before he wishes he'd taken that 900k. I've decided it's too far out, so wouldn't even give them £750 for it now.

Million pound plus houses are a different proposition to 350K houses.

Usually there are few people in the market to pay 1 million so that could easily be the only offer that they get, but 350K is a "normal" house and they expect that soomer or later someone will come along and agree to the price (though whether their leder will is another matter)

tim

[Redcellar]

A cash buyer offering 25% below asking price is an obvious time waster? I think not.

If an EA refused to show me around a house I'd be on the phone to his group MD within the hour. One EA tried it once, his tone was very different a few hours later when he phoned me back after speaking with his regional manager who had just had his ear bent by the boss .

You're a fool Bruce. Everyone knows there are queues of people waiting to be shown around the houses and for each house on sale there are at least a dozen buyers chomping at the bit with the cash ready. The previous poster who said they wouldn't waste their time showing you around because 'time is money' is absolutely right and you need to get with the times.

I almost pissed myself as I wrote that. What was the other guy smoking as he posted?