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gruffydd

Ex Sas Soldier Blasts Poppy Appeal As Political Tool

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Ex-SAS soldier blasts Poppy Appeal as a 'political tool'

Nov 7 2010

by Lisa Jones, Wales On Sunday

THE true meaning of the poppy is being forgotten as it becomes a political tool to support current wars, a former elite soldier has claimed.

Ben Griffin, the first SAS soldier to refuse to go into combat, also said the use of the word “hero” to describe soldiers glorified war and was an “attempt to stifle criticism” of conflicts the UK is currently fighting.

Mr Griffin’s claims echo an increasing body of opinion that the Royal British Legion’s Poppy Appeal’s promotion by key political and cultural figures is undermining the true message of Remembrance Day.

Read More http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2010/11/07/ex-sas-soldier-blasts-poppy-appeal-as-a-political-tool-91466-27614172/#ixzz14b4qVn00

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Duh I've always said this and I've regularly been slammed about it too.

In that the RBL gives money to veterans who need it..

Therefore the government doesn't need to pay for maimed soldiers.

Therefore there is no moral hazard in sending infanty to their deaths.

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We are all entitled to our opinion and Ben is entitled to his, but this is from someone who refused to go into combat? :unsure:

Mmmmmmmm bet he's well thought of in Special circles. <_<

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/feb/29/military.law

He had not witnessed torture himself but added: "I have no doubt in my mind that non-combatants I personally detained were handed over to the Americans and subsequently tortured."

So Ben, you steely eyed killer, you didn't witness torture but have "no doubt", er well, is that like knowing there's Pixies down the bottom of your garden but that you can't prove it? :rolleyes: I suspect the SAS are better off without you and perhaps they are tightening their selection procedures in light of employing you you believer in things you can't prove. <_<

He's a lot braver than most people, you have to tive him that.

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We are all entitled to our opinion and Ben is entitled to his, but this is from someone who refused to go into combat? :unsure:

Mmmmmmmm bet he's well thought of in Special circles. <_<

So, tough guy, which regiment did you serve in?

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Indeedie. Since Blair's wars became a badge of national shame, I wouldn't touch a poppy.

Now that the last of the Great War veterans are dead, their purpose is completely passed into history. It's time to put the little plastic poppy in its rightful place, in the museum.

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He's a lot fitter than most, or used to be, I'll give him that.

And braver to, right?

Coudl you go against your peer group, give up your career and income for what you thought was right?

a good 99% of humanity are utterly incapable of it, from what I can see.

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Coudl you go against your peer group, give up your career and income for what you thought was right?

Yep.

A coward would go with the herd. Or if too horrified by the evil of what he was being ordered to do (and maybe mindful of Nuremberg) might try to slink off quietly.

It takes real courage to defy peer pressure.

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Possible, but not always, it's not unknown for soldiers to take a stand when perhaps, they really only wanted to save their own skin and not for ideological reasons. I'm not saying that is in his case, but it has happened, I'm sure you'd acknowledge.

Oh sure.

But people who have done it only to save their own skins don't then go on crusades about the torture which I am also 100% sure is happening and has happened. They don't carry on making points that will make people uncomfortable or risk attacks if they are cowarsds in that way.

Because let's face it, if this guy gets spotted in the wrong pub at the wrong time, he's getting filled in. If avoiding risk and injury was his thing he'd have slunk off already and we'd hear no more from him.

And you agree that most people are cowards when it comes to their peer group?

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Telegraph Link

Pic of the bloke.....

news-graphics-2008-_657083a.jpg

Interesting he only 'came out' after he had quit the army. As for that he could have been approaching his run out date and not have been keen to sign back on, the Regiment could have been returning him to unit any other factor could have played a part in him wanting to quit. Persons transfer in and out of the SAS all the time, some get quite emotional when they are no longer needed in the elite unit and a suggestion is made 'to return them'.

Not saying that is what happened here but all the articles are silent on the actual mode of how he quit the army. For sure you don't just give your boss a letter and work out a weeks notice..

As for the stuff about renditions he is spot on, that's why David Milliband (when foreign sec) refused to answer the questions, and they tried to gag that court judgement.

The Government may try and portray itself as a protector of human rights but at the end of the day in the war against terror anything and I mean anything goes and gets sanctioned.

Finally if the Irish question had not been solved then I doubt very much this chap would be putting himself at the head of a media campaign. It was the one thing that made them all keep their anonymity (look how many of the embassy stormers are known now), the fear Paddy would love the media attention of slotting a (ex) member of the SAS.

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Well what can you say. He refused to go into battle ? Depends on the situation of course. However if he just refused to fight ? .....

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Pack mentality can certainly take over, there's no denying that.

However, we are talking about a highly trained (or possibly could have been) specialist soldier who would have worked within a close nit military community, letting down his comrades if the Welsh article is to believed won't have been looked upon favourably I would suggest.

Although I note from the Guardian article that 6 SAS soldiers were up on defraud charges! :blink:

"In a separate move, the media have been prevented by a court order from reporting a court martial of six SAS soldiers charged with a conspiracy to "defraud of a value of about £3,000".

Edit: Clarity.

So you agree that for most of humanity, turning their backs on their peer group is next to impossible?

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I can't agree with that as I know of no studies which purport such a stance! :P I seem to have entered an Injin world. :)

Joking aside, in our culture I'd agree most would find it difficult, although as has been noted by CCC there might be more to your noble objector than at first meets the eye.

So you agree that going against your peer group is brave?

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Seems a fair reflection of the Poppy appeal:

Taken from the above article:

"There is nothing in our appeal or campaigning which supports, or does not support, war: we are totally neutral. We are not a warmongering organisation. We don't have a position on war in Iraq or anywhere else. These boys don't send themselves to Iraq – that's a decision for the politicians.

"We help 160,000 cases a year, servicemen and women and their families. We represent widows at inquests, we fight for compensation for victims who have lost limbs. We are in there, up to our elbows dealing with the cost of conflict."

Which is supporting the war, obviously.

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So you agree that for most of humanity, turning their backs on their peer group is next to impossible?

I did, heh whole Chinese communities have completely disowned me because of this!

There are several biggies. Firstly face based society ingrained deep in Chinese people...... I haven't cared about what other people think about me these days at all.

The other is respect, that is undeserved respect of rentiers and bad people (rich people who got their money via trickery) which is rampant in culture too. Old people are the worst they demand if for no other reason other than they are old. Thus old people push into queues, ignore you as if you aren't there. The Chinese people tend to keep quiet and ignore it. Heh a HK cop was deeply offended when I didn't call him sir. He just couldn't get his head around the fact he was a public servant.

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"We help 160,000 cases a year, servicemen and women and their families. We represent widows at inquests, we fight for compensation for victims who have lost limbs. We are in there, up to our elbows dealing with the cost of conflict."

Ergo we support war totally.

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Which is supporting the war, obviously.

It's all to do with some weird Masonic/Templar/occult ritual/proxy praise day!

In 1111 AD the crusader Baldwin, who was later to become King Baldwin of Jerusalem, besieged the city and it was later to become one of the four baronies of the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

11.11.11 Eleventh hr, eleventh day, eleventh month "We will remember them" - Who are we really 're_membering' on this day?

A bunch of skulls and crossbones?

Poppys were brought back by the Crusaders from the Middle East and sown around Europe on their vast tracts of land (another 'obvious' connection!)

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We are all entitled to our opinion and Ben is entitled to his, but this is from someone who refused to go into combat?

Mmmmmmmm bet he's well thought of in Special circles

What's that got to do with him having 'no doubt' about something he never witnessed and of course him refusing to fight if the trog article is to believed?

Try again, peasant.

Your implication is that because he refused to return to combat, that somehow his opinion is invalidated.

I'm just interested to know, what, in your own obviously stirling front-line service record, enables you to imply cowardice in an ex-para and SAS trooper and therefore dismiss his opinion, or are you in reality just another XBox General? More CoD than RGJ?

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Seems a fair reflection of the Poppy appeal:

Taken from the above article:

"There is nothing in our appeal or campaigning which supports, or does not support, war: we are totally neutral. We are not a warmongering organisation. We don't have a position on war in Iraq or anywhere else. These boys don't send themselves to Iraq – that's a decision for the politicians.

"We help 160,000 cases a year, servicemen and women and their families. We represent widows at inquests, we fight for compensation for victims who have lost limbs. We are in there, up to our elbows dealing with the cost of conflict."

What PR tosh - plenty of boys join the army for a the war side of things - durrrrrrr - it's called an army for a reason. And surely the army should look after its men after they've been injured physically and psychologically - that's what happens when your country is in a state of permanent, neverending war - that's a cost of conflict. Pay the price and look after them. Perhaps the cost might actually deter the powers that be from fighting more (some hope! BAE wouldn't be too happy would they!)

If the BL want to cheapen the memory of all those dead men send to their deaths, many of them conscripts, that's their choice. I'll be wearing my white poppy with pride this year.

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I never thought I'd be a pinko leftie agreeing with Gruf and Porca but yes I think they have a bloody good point. Like someone else has said I'm another who won't donate to H4H because these services should be acknowledged and the money found by the people with the blood on their hands.

As for putting the poppy in a musuem, will we be doomed to repeat our forgotten mistakes?

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how would that have got the Argies out of the Falklands and Saddam and his forces out of Kuwait the first time around? :blink:

Answers on a post card to the nearest hippy commune.

As UK sovereign territory populated only by English speakers I'll grant you that the Falklands were a bit different, but what has WWII got to do with Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Sierra Leone, Cyprus, Oman, Korea etc? If it wasn't for our brave boys in uniform we'd all be speaking Serbian and saluting a painting of Saddam?

Travelling around the world on imperial missions is not the same thing as defending your homeland from invasion, and yet most people in the UK continue to pretend that they are morally equivalent, mainly as it saves them having to sit down and actually think about what the difference is.

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"The White Poppy symbolises the belief that there are better ways to resolve conflicts than killing strangers."

RALMAO!

Exactly how would that have worked in WWI & WWII & how would that have got the Argies out of the Falklands and Saddam and his forces out of Kuwait the first time around? :blink:

Answers on a post card to the nearest hippy commune.

http://www.ppu.org.uk/poppy/

Actually, here in civilised West Wales lots of people wear them - it's more to do with chapel than anything else.

It might've worked quite well if all sides had adopted a less belligerent attitude. I've got all kinds of medals handed down in my family - including a VC - my Uncle was FFL, grandfather was a General, a couple of US Marines in there too.

I understand war and its legacy. It's fitting that the guy who won the VC never recovered from PTSDisorder. Most people are thicko tub thumping warmongers who get some kind of kick out of 'our boys' killing their boys. Bunch of sickos if you ask me. And there are a lot of them. And then there are the armchair generals. Very easy to be an armchair general!

Reading the Sun and similar, you wonder whether it's a kind of perversion - with people getting a kind of sexual thrill out of it all.

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  • 246 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


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