ScrewsNutsandBolts Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 (edited) Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11704765 Long-term benefit claimants could be forced to do compulsory manual labour under proposals being put forward by the government, it has emerged... Edited November 6, 2010 by ScrewsNutsandBolts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipbuilder Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 (edited) Doesn't that put the people currently doing manual labour out of a job? Somewhat self-defeating, if you think about it. What do we call undercutting peoples' labour using their fellow countrymen? Inshoring? Infighting? Edited November 7, 2010 by shipbuilder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Slavery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipbuilder Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Not just manual labour - it should really be something that uses the skill set of the unemployed person. You could get unemployed IT workers doing IT work for dole money. I wonder how that would go down on here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScrewsNutsandBolts Posted November 7, 2010 Author Share Posted November 7, 2010 Doesn't that put the people currently doing manual labour out of a job? Somewhat self-defeating, if you think about it. What do we call undercutting peoples' labour using their fellow countrymen? Inshoring? Infighting? Only if it replaces labour on current activites. Say the council cleans up litter in a certain area once a year. Get the work-shy to clean the same area at the midpoint between the council cleans, no loss of labour as additional labour has been created. General tidyness is improved and everyone benefits. Or just put the labour into activities that would genuinely never get done otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipbuilder Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Only if it replaces labour on current activites. Say the council cleans up litter in a certain area once a year. Get the work-shy to clean the same area at the midpoint between the council cleans, no loss of labour as additional labour has been created. General tidyness is improved and everyone benefits. Or just put the labour into activities that would genuinely never get done otherwise. What activities would never get done otherwise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyOne Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Doesn't that put the people currently doing manual labour out of a job? Somewhat self-defeating, if you think about it. What do we call undercutting peoples' labour using their fellow countrymen? Inshoring? Infighting? No longer getting something for nothing. It will result in a quicker transformation of our economy from one based on housing and banking to one of production than would otherwise happen as our international competitiveness will increase with lower wages and much lower house prices which will actually improve everyone's standard of living eventually. The path to this outcome will be horrible for many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beccles Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11704765 Long-term benefit claimants could be forced to do compulsory manual labour under proposals being put forward by the government, it has emerged... A couple I know have never worked (well apart from a few hours in her aunts shop on the side) both 34 & healthy, have 3 children. He is a deemed 'main carer' for one of his kids that has ADHD (I've only ever seen the kid siting in his bedroom draw all day watching Cbeebies), she claims Incapacity for depression, they also recieve housing benefit to pay for the aunts house they 'rent'. You name it they claimed it, emergency loans/free laptops/healthy eating grants. There is a lot more I could mention but its just so :angry: The point I'm trying to make is if you've been unemployed for a long time, you learn to play the system. Oh just seen they've got a Playstation 3 for sale £180 if anyones intrested, because they have 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScrewsNutsandBolts Posted November 7, 2010 Author Share Posted November 7, 2010 What activities would never get done otherwise? You've thought about.... and really can't think of anything ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 What activities would never get done otherwise? Maintaining canal footpaths,pruning trees,picking dog poop up, sweeping leaves up. Mind you the community pay back gangs are doing some stuff. Will do lies need to wear orange jackets that mark them out as unemployed rather than crims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipbuilder Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 No longer getting something for nothing. It will result in a quicker transformation of our economy from one based on housing and banking to one of production than would otherwise happen as our international competitiveness will increase with lower wages and much lower house prices which will actually improve everyone's standard of living eventually. The path to this outcome will be horrible for many. How would it lower wages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipbuilder Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 You've thought about.... and really can't think of anything ? No, I'm asking you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScrewsNutsandBolts Posted November 7, 2010 Author Share Posted November 7, 2010 No, I'm asking you. No you haven't thought about it ? Or No you can't think of anything ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipbuilder Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Maintaining canal footpaths,pruning trees,picking dog poop up, sweeping leaves up. Mind you the community pay back gangs are doing some stuff. Will do lies need to wear orange jackets that mark them out as unemployed rather than crims If these things need done, then surely there would be someone doing them already? Canal footpaths are already maintained by whoever owns them, same as trees that need pruned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipbuilder Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 No you haven't thought about it ? Or No you can't think of anything ? I asked you. Are you avoiding the question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athom Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11704765 Long-term jobless 'could face compulsory manual labour'Long-term benefit claimants could be forced to do compulsory manual labour under proposals being put forward by the government, it has emerged. Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith is set to outline plans for four-week placements doing jobs like gardening and litter clearing. "The message will go across - play ball or it is going to be difficult," said Mr Duncan Smith. Under the plan, claimants thought to need 'experience of the habits and routines of working life' could be put on the month long, 30-hour a week placements. Anyone refusing to take part or failing to turn up on time to work could have their £65 Jobseekers' Allowance stopped for at least three months. The Work Activity scheme is said to be designed to flush out claimants who have opted for a life on benefits or are doing undeclared jobs on the side. "The message will go across; play ball or it's going to be difficult." The UK has 5m people on out-of-work benefits and one of the highest rates of workless households in Europe, with 1.9m children living in homes where no-one has a job. I was unemployed in the 90s and remember exactly this, i ended up doing a "conservation" work experience program for 2 months or risked loosing my benefits, work was naturally manual as i had no skills and included cutting grass on roundabouts.....and picking up any litter we found naturally. Didn't realise i was having my human rights abused but there you go, no doubt that claim will be made. So are the coalition right to think these announcements will play well to the people that matter? Despite the media likely to have a field day saying they are being heartless to the "poor" etc. Is that what the majority of voters want though, to see them looking tough? I guess they must think so or they wouldn't bother announcing something tough sounding that is so not new they could have avoided it if they wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athom Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Damn it. It took me that long to get around to posting this another thread has already been started and Injin has already been there and called it slavery. I feel right redundant now i do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Orange Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 For better or worse FDR had manual work programs like this and this semi-artificially pushed down unemployment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lulu Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Only if it replaces labour on current activites. Say the council cleans up litter in a certain area once a year. Get the work-shy to clean the same area at the midpoint between the council cleans, no loss of labour as additional labour has been created. General tidyness is improved and everyone benefits. Or just put the labour into activities that would genuinely never get done otherwise. There are plenty of things that are done on a voluntary basis already. I spent a long time as a young teenager doing 'environmental' work for the BTCV and Natural Trust, footpath building/clearing tree planting etc. these organisations do not have the cash for 'hands on' type roles (the amount the senior staff get paid shall be overlooked for now...). Getting long term benefit claimants involved sounds like a great idea to me, in fact get some of the 'depressed' and 'disabled' involved too (when I was there there were regularly people there who were even in wheelchairs doing their best to help - even if it was just to make the tea...). I do geniuinely think that getting many of these people into some kind of community/work ethic could go great lengths into restoring a sense of community and value to an area. There will be no more insentive to stop grafitti/littering and pushing shopping trolleys into the canal if the people who have to clear it up actually live next door to the wee vandals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormymonday_2011 Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 (edited) Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11704765 Long-term benefit claimants could be forced to do compulsory manual labour under proposals being put forward by the government, it has emerged... Manual Labour. How quaint Perhaps he is intending to reintroduce the crank Or maybe picking Oakum Forcing the poor to do pointless physical tasks is surely the solution to all the countries ills Such elevation of the Stakhanovite glories of manual work has not been witnessed since the days of Stalin or Mao's Cultural Revolution. It seems that the Coalition plan to bring Britain to the forefront of the world economy wielding a pick and shovel Who knows maybe they will even reopen some coal mines We have been down this road before in the 1980s. Who can forget such successes as YOPS, the short sharp shock for young offenders and a 101 other initiatives to tackle the fecklessness of the British lower orders.Nearly all foundered because it actually cost more to provide the 'education' in the ways of work than having the layabouts on the dole. If my memory serves me correctly what normally happens when wealth redistribution via the tax and benefit system is curtailed then the shiftless workshy dole bludgers often prove remarkably innovative in finding more direct ways of diverting the cash of their more prosperous bretheren into their pockets. Cameron may find that slashing the police and prison budget is not going to be the smartest move in the spending review.At least Thatcher with her lower middle class background understood .what was likely to happen. The current government does not seem to have a clue Edited November 7, 2010 by realcrookswearsuits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unexpected Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Slavery. Not Slavery. They are paid to do the work and hey have a choice whether they do it or not. A bit like my job really. Do you consider yourself to be a slave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldberry Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Slavery. Slavery.... It gets sh1t done. And cheaply to boot. So your point caller is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feed Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Not Slavery. They are paid to do the work and hey have a choice whether they do it or not. A bit like my job really. Do you consider yourself to be a slave? compulsory [kəmˈpʌlsərɪ] adj 1. required by regulations or laws; obligatory compulsory education 2. involving or employing compulsion; compelling; necessary; essential compulsorily adv compulsoriness n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldberry Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Perhaps he is intending to reintroduce the crank Or maybe picking Oakum Forcing the poor to do pointless physical tasks is surely the solution to all the countries ills It seems that the Coalition plan to bring Britain to the forefront of the world economy wielding a pick and shovel Who knows maybe they will even reopen some coal mines Good show! I don't see a problem with that. The harder and more monotonous the better. Don't we as a country have some big rocks that need breaking somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipbuilder Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 There are plenty of things that are done on a voluntary basis already. I spent a long time as a young teenager doing 'environmental' work for the BTCV and Natural Trust, footpath building/clearing tree planting etc. these organisations do not have the cash for 'hands on' type roles (the amount the senior staff get paid shall be overlooked for now...). Do you think the staff in these charities would want volunteers or people on the dole forced to be there? Should they have to supervise them or would there be staff employed to supervise them? What would be the staff to workforce ratio and how many extra public sector staff would that mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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