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Know Your Lefty Economists # 12 : Paul Mason

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What a militant weirdo that Paul Mason is, imagine wanting your pension? Whatever next, payment for work carried out?

£4.6tn: correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that is our debt plus unfunded public sector pensions. I take it you wanna fork out for that too?

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Just print it! I take it you don't want to be paid and are willing to work for free?

I take it you wanna be paid in monopoly money.

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I already am, you don't seem to even want that (or do you simply mean that other people shouldn't be paid?). I guess that makes me militant too. You will probably notice that this doesn't affect the Guv'nor Mark Thompson, but then his "contract" is the only one that should be adhered to for some reason. Maybe you have noticed that at a certain level in this society contracts have to be met whilst those below can be reneged upon at any time. I feel confident that you are one of those people who insists that you are entitled to all that you are owed and yet mortified if someone else were to breach a contract with you. In other words, typically middle class.

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I already am, you don't seem to even want that (or do you simply mean that other people shouldn't be paid?). I guess that makes me militant too. You will probably notice that this doesn't affect the Guv'nor Mark Thompson, but then his "contract" is the only one that should be adhered to for some reason. Maybe you have noticed that at a certain level in this society contracts have to be met whilst those below can be reneged upon at any time. I feel confident that you are one of those people who insists that you are entitled to all that you are owed and yet mortified if someone else were to breach a contract with you. In other words, typically middle class.

mirror, mirror

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£4.6tn: correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that is our debt plus unfunded public sector pensions. I take it you wanna fork out for that too?

If you are going to slag off Mason at least get your f*cking facts right.

Unfunded public schemes such as those run by the Civil Service have no investments but are paid directly from taxation

The BBC schems has a fund and Trustees just like every private defined pension benefit scheme which is built up by Contributions from employees and employers.

The pension is paid out of the investments held by the fund

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mypension/sites/helpadvice/pages/top-100-investments.shtml

The scheme might be in deficit but that is not the same as being unfunded

Edited by realcrookswearsuits

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BBC seems to function OK without the strikers. Indeed the news is much better!

I suggest the strikers are fired, and the licence fee slashed!

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If you are going to slag off Mason at least get your f*cking facts semantics right......

The scheme might be in deficit but that is not the same as being unfunded

fixed

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Just so as you know what his bais is , Paul Turned out on the picket line this morning and even did a piece to camera

BBC Strike: Newsnight’s Paul Mason accuses BBC bosses of theft

well it is theft, if you pay into a system with a promise of a return those terms should not be changed to existing customers.

Some people on this forum are seriously

mixed up. The left isn't responsible for this mess, it's the complete opposite. The last labour government was left wing and we all know the bush administration wasn't, so please don't tar left wing ideals for this crisis.

The current Tory lib dem mess is only going to make us all poorer. It's not going to help by attacking pensions and jobs. These things have to be paid for so we all need to man up and pay for it.

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I don`t know for sure but I expect that Mr Mason was equally vociferous when Gordon Brown plundered many pension funds and thus helped to kick start the HPI bubble.

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Mason is an ignorant, unintelligent *****.

I have a degree in economics from the University of Birmingham & using the scant resources of that piffling qualification I can take apart every backward argument he proposes during his 3 minute left wing diatribes on BBC News.

I hate him utterly & I invite you to join me.

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The current Tory lib dem mess is only going to make us all poorer. It's not going to help by attacking pensions and jobs. These things have to be paid for so we all need to man up and pay for it.

Major fail. The road to prosperity won't be reached by paying up each time somebody makes an illegitimate claim on wealth, we've been trying that experiement since 97. Those that have promised themsleves everybody else's cash need to realise that the money just isn't there. So either they reduce their claims or go for the jackpot and end up with nothing. It's their call.

Edited by Chef

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Pedro, why don't you just buy a house for your son (he can even do this himself), and then just not bother paying. After all it's only a contract and doesn't need to be adhered to using "promissory notes" which have no value. After all if an employer can default on a contract I don't see why an individual can't do the same. You could even defend it by saying that in the current economic climate it is simply not viable to pay a large mortgage.

I'm only being partially facetious, at some point in the near future practically everyone who has a mortgage will default, and at that point there will be simply no possibility of enforcing contract law. The downside of this free house is that there will be no law outside that which is constructed by criminal gangs.

It's already started in the US, and what begins there eventually washes up on our shores.

As for economists, Maggie T's opinion of them was spot on.

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History and literature are replete with lessons that we continually fail to heed. I wouldn't necessarily label myself a "doom-monger", more someone who recognises the absurdity of life and the fact that it follows pretty much the same pattern. War always follows peace and vice versa, my only concern is that this time we have the ability to finish the game once and for all.

"The mass man loves gags" wrote Saul Bellow, "He is a spolit child, demanding amusement, given to tantrums, his only commandment is thou shalt expect convenience."

Ortega y Gassett writes on the same subject that "The mass man (that would be us) is obviously interested in automobiles, anesthetics, and all manner of sundries. And these things confirm his profound lack of interest in civilisation itself. For all these things are merely products of civilisation, and the passion he displays for them makes more crudely obvious his insensibility to the principles which made them possible."

Peace time (as we understand it) allows the central government to be hollowed out such that we have the inevitable descent into barbarism and violence.

I guess I am saying that once you remove contract law and it's application, things quickly descend into chaos. Without a solid basis for trade to take place, there is no economy. Running up debt and not paying your obligations will reduce the ability of people to do business. The fact that the people through their central banks and government want this situation to occur shows that they have no understanding of where this path will lead them.

However, they will learn a very harsh lesson. In fact the backlash could be so great that the concept of credit will be greatly diminished if not removed entirely.

Too much debt/credit has been created, the defaults are inevitable, although most people will believe that "their" claim on the actual wealth is genuine whilst others less so.

If Paul Mason's pension is being defaulted on, then why not everyone elses?

On the plus side, you will be surprised how quickly people see the coming "chaos" as the norm, it's just human nature. We are very resilient in that respect.

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If you are going to slag off Mason at least get your f*cking facts right.

Unfunded public schemes such as those run by the Civil Service have no investments but are paid directly from taxation

The BBC schems has a fund and Trustees just like every private defined pension benefit scheme which is built up by Contributions from employees and employers.

The pension is paid out of the investments held by the fund

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mypension/sites/helpadvice/pages/top-100-investments.shtml

The scheme might be in deficit but that is not the same as being unfunded

Indeed correct.

I didn't renew leases, and instead relocated, on two properties owned by the BBC Pension Fund after they refused to lower the rents to a level I felt was acceptable - to be fair this decision was most likely delegated to property managers who manage the investment on their behalf.

Both properties are still empty now and they'll be forking out a huge chunk in business rates on them.

I like to think, in my own little way, I'm partly responsible for these f**kwits standing outside television centre chucking their over-paid careers down the toilet. :lol::lol:

Edited by Soon Not a Chain Retailer

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Just so as you know what his bais is , Paul Turned out on the picket line this morning and even did a piece to camera:

BBC Strike: Newsnight's Paul Mason accuses BBC bosses of theft

In that article Mason says ""What we're on strike for is the right to take a pay cut, so can pay more into our own pensions, so management can pay more and it can become stable"

Is he complaining because their pay is too high?

As I understand it the BBC have said they can keep their gold plated pensions but they are calculated on their average wage over the years instead of their final salary. Most people in the private sector would snatch their hand off rather than be reliant on pension manager misinvestments.

Surely the crux of the matter is that under New Labour their salaries have spiralled so much that average salary over years is not as good as final salary. However years ago it would have been accepted as there wasn't the same massive increases in such a short time. Mark Thompson for example gets twice what Grey Dyke got. These people are just greedy - they should pocket the recent massive pay rises quietly, accept the deal and shut the **** up.

I hope Mason isn't one of the BBC staff allegedly setting up service companies to reduce their tax

http://www.dailymail...-tax-bills.html

edit for typo

Edited by Redhat Sly

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well it is theft, if you pay into a system with a promise of a return those terms should not be changed to existing customers.

Some people on this forum are seriously

mixed up. The left isn't responsible for this mess, it's the complete opposite. The last labour government was left wing and we all know the bush administration wasn't, so please don't tar left wing ideals for this crisis.

The current Tory lib dem mess is only going to make us all poorer. It's not going to help by attacking pensions and jobs. These things have to be paid for so we all need to man up and pay for it.

The fund's investments, including a large slug of property, will have declined in value massively.

The people responsible for investing the employees pension money have screwed up. This is nobody elses fault

The fact the government or large instituitions renege on promises is nothing new. The last government published a leaflet encouraging employees to invest in private company pension schemes and actually stating they would protect the money.

When some started failing they didn't.

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Absolutely. The current pension system is in essense, entirely Ponzi in nature, therefore it will collapse. It's funny how people though simply have to accept this fact without complaint. After all the precedent has been set with the bailout of the financial/banking sector. If you see everyone else being bailed out why would you NOT expect the same?

I don't quite understand why people are complaining about others complaining when they would so exactly the same thing. The current system simply cannot pay Paul Mason's pension obligations, but by the same token it cannot pay anyone elses, especially not the Director General's, Mark Thompson. If Paul Mason has to take a hit then so should Mark Thompson?

We understand that all the animals on this farm are not neccesarily equal, but that doesn't mean they should stop squealing. Quiet acceptance is not going to help any of the animals.

Without a sound contractual system backed up by the rule of law then trade becomes haphazard and difficult. That is is why it is very important for us to do a controlled demolition on the current system before starting again. Unfortunately this is unlikely and the ediface will simply collapse under it's own weight.

I also don't see what is particularly political about wanting an agreement adhered to. Is wanting to be paid a facet of being "left" wing whilst accepting default "right" wing? Most people of a right wing leaning I know not only want their share of the pie, but other people's too!

I notice that most people are now so cowed by the companies and corporations they work for, and so heavily laden in debt that they no longer have any political involvement beyond criticising others who do.

What scares people in the West most of all about the so-called "terrorist" threat from Islamic fundamentalists is that they are dealing with people who actually have a belief system and are willing to stand up for it. This is alarming to people who believe in nothing and simply want to be left alone to watch the X-Factor.

Paul Mason accordingly should simply shrug his shoulders, accept that he is going to lose a large portion of his pension and go back to watching the TV like everyone else. Stop rocking the boat Paul, Cheryl Cole is on in a minute and we don't want anything to interfere with that.

One last thing, Maggie managed to upset just about every economist in the country in the early 80's with her Milton Friedman based policies. The establishment at that point were Keynesians' to a man. They wrote a long letter of complaint which was published in the Times. She hated economists after that and I do remember her saying (and it might even have been on Jim'l'fix'It) that if she had one wish it was that all economists would disappear.

Personally I think economists need to put their books down and get out into the real world. Nostromo by Joseph Conrad makes this point far more eloquently than I ever could.

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I wasn't aware of the BBC strikes until about mid way through the first day. I wondered why there was some strange man reading the news on Breakfast, it was actually quite refreshing not having to listen to those retards Bill and Sian witter their inane bull5hit, were they striking too, and if so why? Over paid losers!! Anyway, back to the same old boring BBC news tripe now. They have proved they are not needed so I say sack all those that skived off!!

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Absolutely. The current pension system is in essense, entirely Ponzi in nature, therefore it will collapse. It's funny how people though simply have to accept this fact without complaint. After all the precedent has been set with the bailout of the financial/banking sector. If you see everyone else being bailed out why would you NOT expect the same?

I don't quite understand why people are complaining about others complaining when they would so exactly the same thing. The current system simply cannot pay Paul Mason's pension obligations, but by the same token it cannot pay anyone elses, especially not the Director General's, Mark Thompson. If Paul Mason has to take a hit then so should Mark Thompson?

The money will not be paid as promised, not to the strikers or the directors.

You can argue all you like about ponzi schemes, left/right wing, right/wrong, and "If the banks, then why not me?" It doesn't matter. You're grasping for a higher rung on a ladder that collapsed before it was built.

That wouldn't go down well on Dragons Den. Unless it attracts an audience?

Edited by okaycuckoo

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I wasn't aware of the BBC strikes until about mid way through the first day. I wondered why there was some strange man reading the news on Breakfast, it was actually quite refreshing not having to listen to those retards Bill and Sian witter their inane bull5hit, were they striking too, and if so why? Over paid losers!! Anyway, back to the same old boring BBC news tripe now. They have proved they are not needed so I say sack all those that skived off!!

Ah, someone else who doesn't want to be paid for their services. I take it you also work for free like many of the altruists on this site?

Although I am a bit curious as to why you would tune in of your own volition to something you think is "inane bull", you must be a masochist. I don't think they write the material, they merely present it. The entire industry is overpaid and simply not required. You could do your bit by switching off, selling the TV, and not paying the license fee. I would also suggest you stop reading the Daily Mail, no good will come of it.

If you want to be nihilistic, no-one is needed, not me and certainly not you, life is meaningless. Although I suspect you would actually be a little bit upset if your employment contract was ignored, you might even down tools.

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  • 259 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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