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Middle-Class Family Ambitions Are Becoming A Stretch

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That woman wants to provide for her children university fees as well as setting them up with a nice house. (thereby denying such priviledges from children of poorer parents)

This is all very well for her children, but the other children are disadvantaged by such behaviour, and as such is a long way from a meritocracy.

If her children have to stand on their own two feet then that is a good thing. If they stand then they are worthy and if they cannot stand up on their own, then someone with poorer parents might be able to take the burden and enjoy priviledges that they would not get in her unmeritocratic world.

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/nov/04/middle-class-family-ambitions

The lack of a real middle class is typical of a 3rd world country ....

Time to consider emigrating ...

the destruction of the middle class is a typical end result to a credit cycle, this one doesnt seem to be any different the way its developed for the last decade

Edited by Tamara De Lempicka

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It raises a question though: Who exactly are the middle class?

I would say:

0-£20k = working class

£20k-£45k = middle class.

£45k+ = "upper middle" or rich as I prefer to think of it.

Or in terms of household income just multiply by 1.5 I think.

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Class isn't defined by how much you earn. Look at Wayne Rooney, for example.

he may not be "upper class"

but his children certainly will be. not in a landowning aristocracy sort of way, but in the new super-rich way.

Look at posh & becks....

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It raises a question though: Who exactly are the middle class?

I would say:

0-£20k = working class

£20k-£45k = middle class.

£45k+ = "upper middle" or rich as I prefer to think of it.

Or in terms of household income just multiply by 1.5 I think.

...a good plumber can earn £45,000 plus ...the class issue is dead ....basically anyone slogging their guts out gets hammered ...and you have not mentioned the underclass if class is tabled ....this is the fasted growing element ...thanks to Nulabour.... <_<

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For many decades after WW11 house prices went up very slowly. Middle class people did not see their houses as a 'fund' of money, because they weren't.

When house prices accelerated in the 90's a change of ambition came over many people. 'Paper' affluence spawned a conviction of genuine disposable family wealth. Their new HPI 'wealth', they felt, could insulate their offspring against some of life's struggles. They could exercise a generosity, via mortgage deposit assistance, to their kids. A generosity that had been completely unknown to the generations before them - other than the genuinely rich.

Many middle class people now feel they have an almost 'dynastic' obligations, to support the succeeding generation.

Many are in for a severe shock when they find out what they are actually worth, and what their intended benevolence is going to cost.

Disappointment will be the order of the day.

Edited by juvenal

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It raises a question though: Who exactly are the middle class?

I would say:

0-£20k = working class

£20k-£45k = middle class.

£45k+ = "upper middle" or rich as I prefer to think of it.

Or in terms of household income just multiply by 1.5 I think.

As someone who earns over £45k, I can assure you that I'm certainly not middle, let alone upper middle class. £45k s not a lot of money these days.

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It raises a question though: Who exactly are the middle class?

I would say:

0-£20k = working class

£20k-£45k = middle class.

£45k+ = "upper middle" or rich as I prefer to think of it.

Or in terms of household income just multiply by 1.5 I think.

Does a fella on £45k feel rich? Struggle to keep up with the Joneses more like. 0-20k is underclass, 20k-£45k is working class. Let's keep it real. Rich is £100m plus. I don't make the rules!

Edit - I mean to be rich you'd need £100m plus, not a salary of it. Say perhaps a salary of £200k with many bonuses, that special 1%.

Edited by jammo

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As someone who earns over £45k, I can assure you that I'm certainly not middle, let alone upper middle class. £45k s not a lot of money these days.

This country really gets my goat by constantly going on about gross salaries. Why, when the marginal tax rates are so different? Why can we not use net salaries when chatting, and why can't we use net salaries when taking out mortgages? £25k x 3.5 is not the same as £50k x 3.5. OK, I get the whole disposable income argument, but still... and, breathe.

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he may not be "upper class"

but his children certainly will be. not in a landowning aristocracy sort of way, but in the new super-rich way.

Look at posh & becks....

No they won't. Not in any sort of way unless they get themselves educated. Which seems unlikely given their parents moronic behaviour.

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0-£20k = working class

£20k-£45k = middle class.

£45k+ = "upper middle" or rich as I prefer to think of it.

Here is the real class system in the UK in 2010:

Working and renting in private sector = working class

Bought a house pre-2000 = middle class

Bankster, BTL landlord, or public sector senior management = upper class

FTB from 2000 onwards = debt slave

Main income from benefits = playing-the-system class

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It raises a question though: Who exactly are the middle class?

I would say:

0-£20k = working class

£20k-£45k = middle class.

£45k+ = "upper middle" or rich as I prefer to think of it.

Or in terms of household income just multiply by 1.5 I think.

Come one, £45k is not a big salary. Loads of tradesmen can earn that in the SE, we had plumbers taking £60k in London 10 years ago.

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...

£20k-£45k = middle class.

That includes an awful lot of hard benefit claiming families if you work out how much they would have to earn to receive the same income.

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Here is the real class system in the UK in 2010:

...

Bankster, BTL landlord, or public sector senior management = upper class

I disagree with BTL landlord. Many of them have no real wealth or money, it has all gone into negative equity. The BTLers who bought after 2004 ish are debt slaves too.

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It raises a question though: Who exactly are the middle class?

I would say:

0-£20k = working class

£20k-£45k = middle class.

£45k+ = "upper middle" or rich as I prefer to think of it.

Or in terms of household disposable income after housing costs and tax income just multiply by 1.5 I think.

£20k is not a bad figure to spend pa if you only have yourself to spend it on......class is not judged by income alone. ;)

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The irony is that the so called working class don't work any more out of choice and are on benefits. Those who consider themselves working class but work are probably middle class as are all the other drones slogging away every day. The upper classes don't work either out of choice but aren't on benefits, except the Royal family.

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This country really gets my goat by constantly going on about gross salaries. Why, when the marginal tax rates are so different? Why can we not use net salaries when chatting, and why can't we use net salaries when taking out mortgages? £25k x 3.5 is not the same as £50k x 3.5. OK, I get the whole disposable income argument, but still... and, breathe.

No need to stress - you answered your own question!

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Oh god, not this again!

£45k is a large amount of money, I think I'm right that if you earn over that amount you're in the top 10% of earners. You can't consider yourself rich, but you are not hard done by like so many people make out!

The things that makes it seem so little are giant mortgages and people addicted to a new £30k car every 3 years, a new kitchen and 3 holidays a year! If you have that you're very well off imho. If people weren't blowing £1500 a month on a mortgage, they'd feel a dam sight richer!

I'm a higher rate tax payer myself.

In addition, maybe she should educate her children about why we're in this mess ...

But as I ran through the figures with an incensed eight-year-old – who seems to have decided that David Cameron is out to destroy his life (a conclusion that owes more to a news report about cuts in school funding than any indoctrination by his mother) – I couldn't really muster comparable outrage.

Angry 8yr old only see's the headlines shocker, typical guardian having a dig.

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  • 245 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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