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goldilocksporridge

Striking Workers

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I get fed up with striking workers, in the past I have supported them - like BA cabin crew and the firemen because employers and businesses will shaft anyone. What gives them the right to think that they can just stop working when they are not getting there demands. If things are so bad in there job can they not go and find another job.

What about the millions of people in tempory jobs, pubs, restaurants, or many professionals who often work in there evenings and weekend, often for not huge salaries where is there means to negotiate with employers. If they went on strike, you'd be told to clear your desk.

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I get fed up with striking workers, in the past I have supported them - like BA cabin crew and the firemen because employers and businesses will shaft anyone. What gives them the right to think that they can just stop working when they are not getting there demands. If things are so bad in there job can they not go and find another job.

What about the millions of people in tempory jobs, pubs, restaurants, or many professionals who often work in there evenings and weekend, often for not huge salaries where is there means to negotiate with employers. If they went on strike, you'd be told to clear your desk.

It pisses me off that people in sought after jobs go on strike over pay - like fire fighters. We are told that there are over 40 applicants for each fire fighters position which means that there are clearly plenty of people willing to do ti for the money. The market controls wages and if people are queing up to do the job then you don't have to pay them as much.

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It pisses me off that people in sought after jobs go on strike over pay - like fire fighters.

They are not striking over pay. The dispute in London has nothing whatsoever to do with wages.

The firefighters were issued with a 90 day notice telling them to accept new contracts and terms and conditions otherwise they would be sacked. They had a strike ballot with a 79% positive vote to strike. If the threat of sack is withdrawn they will call off strikes and resume negotiations regarding shift changes.

Firefighters work unsociable hours. The employers are imposing a new system whereby the hours worked are less family friendly. (Remember the physical nature of the job means the vast majority of frontline firefighters are in their 20's and 30's and consequently will have young families.)

Many commentators believe that the change in shifts may have a far more sinister undertone than merely affecting firefighters patterns of work and is a precursor to allowing the reduction of night time cover by removing fire engines from stations at night. The current shift system makes this both an administrative and logistical nightmare.

Ultimately this strike may affect the fire cover you receive at night. Support your firefighters!

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Ultimately this strike may affect the fire cover you receive at night. Support your firefighters!

Surely the best way to improve fire cover at night would be to sack them all and hire twice as many Poles on half as much money?

As for the OP, I can only assume they're trolling, as no-one in their right mind could support BA in their strike over senior cabin crew having to push a trolley around the cabin and then complain about other employees with real grievances (and I would agree that the firefighters do have them if your summary here is correct) striking.

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in the past I have supported them - like BA cabin crew

Would be interested to hear why you supported that industrial action, most of the stewards/stewardesses employed by BA didn't even support it.

As an aside, ever met a trolley dolly? I've met two this last year, and seen countless others on the telly, and their misplaced pride/self-importance about their jobs is quite staggering to behold.

You never hear a nurse or a doctor boasting in the same way about their "life saving" jobs, and insisting on being called simply "crew" as if their jobs are beyond the use of a single word to define them.

A couple of weeks training on how to empty a room of people and they seem to think they are a cross between Bruce Willis and Florence Nightingale

Whereas the ITU nurses I met when Dad was in hospital were humble and discreet to the extreme, true angels and not a convertible TT or Gucci handbag in sight, unsurprisingly.

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What are the proposed changes to firefighters shift patterns? I heard one was getting 3 hours longer, and one was going 3 hours shorter.

The industrial claims appeared to be based on hypothetical situations that aren't even on the table at the moment, i.e. some stations shutting

One firefighter called LBC to say that the replacements were hopeless and the public should tell them to go away when they arrive to put out their burning homes because "they will make it worse"

Lots of retarded people going on the strike these days without realising they don't actually have an argument, and instead are just pawns being used by their socialist unions for political manouvering

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What are the proposed changes to firefighters shift patterns? I heard one was getting 3 hours longer, and one was going 3 hours shorter.

The shift pattern in London for the firefighters is two 9 hour days followed by two 15 hour nights with three full days recovery. Thats 48 hours covering days, nights, weekends, bank holidays, Christmas etc. Firefighters have never asked for unsociable pay allowance, weekend overtime or allowances but have accepted that the shift pattern offers a fair work/ life balance. Night shifts include an element of rest period after midnight whereby routines, training, inspections and fire safety advice are not undertaken but only emergency fire and rescue calls are responded to. The fire authority wish to impose a shift of two 12 hour days followed by two 12 hour nights. Commentators have questioned why a need to change the shift when it is difficult to see what benefits this offers either the firefighters themselves or the fire authory except if you consider the following. More firecalls occur during the day than at night.

Lets assume the fire authority want to remove fire cover from a station at night. They can sack half the firefighters and ask the remaining workforce to only work day shifts in an attempt to make up the 48 hours per rota week. Administratively and logistically very difficult to do. Furthermore the cover the station offers drops from 24/7 to just over 1/3 that ie only 9 hours per day.

Now lets assume the firefighters work both 12 hour days and nights. Sack half the firefighters and force the remaining to work only day shifts. Four shifts on and four off thereby achieves 48hour working weeks and provides cover at stations for more of the day than achievable on the pattern offered above. Far easier to do administratively and logistically.

You may say what a great use of resources! Except perhaps if you live in the borough or town affected.

Now lets consider that fact offered earlier. More firecalls occur during the day than at night. Perhaps this is a good time to bring out some more facts.

Fires that occur at night tend to be more serious.

More deaths from fires occur at nights.

Fires are detected later at night and consequentally have longer to develop.

Ultimately this dispute may affect your nightime fire cover. Support your firefighters!

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The current shift pattern has been in existence for over 30 years. The fire authority wish to change it and claim this will increase productivity. Others believe this is the necessary change required by the fire authority to enable a reduction of nightime cover in London. The only "product" that you will care about at night when your house is on fire is a capable, well trained, well motivated, well resourced, risk tolerant firefighter climbing through your window.

Ultimately this dispute may affect your nightime fire cover. Support your firefighters!

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Come on, you're just basing the industrial action on supposition, and this repeated posting of the same statements plucking at peoples heart strings is typical Union scaremongering

You're being played, same as BA stewards were

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We are told that there are over 40 applicants for each fire fighters position which means that there are clearly plenty of people willing to do ti for the money. The market controls wages and if people are queing up to do the job then you don't have to pay them as much.

Possibly most of the applicants are weeded out before they are required to do the job, I wouldn't be much good at running up a 200' ladder for example.

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Possibly most of the applicants are weeded out before they are required to do the job, I wouldn't be much good at running up a 200' ladder for example.

Yes - but I doubt there is a lack of capable applicants.

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Whereas the ITU nurses I met when Dad was in hospital were humble and discreet to the extreme, true angels and not a convertible TT or Gucci handbag in sight, unsurprisingly.

As would the firemen trained in emergency rescue if ever had the need of their expertise.

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I get fed up with striking workers, in the past I have supported them - like BA cabin crew and the firemen because employers and businesses will shaft anyone. What gives them the right to think that they can just stop working when they are not getting there demands. If things are so bad in there job can they not go and find another job.

What about the millions of people in tempory jobs, pubs, restaurants, or many professionals who often work in there evenings and weekend, often for not huge salaries where is there means to negotiate with employers. If they went on strike, you'd be told to clear your desk.

Divide&rule is the name of the game. Don't get sucked in.

So, you want everyone to have no rights. If we follow your thinking, we'll end up with a massive group of poor, hard-working peasants and a small group of the ultra rich. Is that what you want?

Trust me, this country can afford good working conditions (including decent pensions) for all working men&women. The only problem is that the rich want to get even richer, hence they want to squeeze the small guy like you&me even more. And they tell you they can't pay you more. But into salaries and pensions of directors and CEOs. The gap is widening every year. Aren't you fed up with that?? Manufacturing is moved to China, saving millions of pounds, and what happens with the extra profit?

All this country needs to wake up to the fact that its people are being raped by the banks.

6 month banks' profits made out of QE (that's your money that the gov is giving out to the banks for free) would satisfy all UK workers' demands for years.

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Divide&rule is the name of the game. Don't get sucked in.

So, you want everyone to have no rights. If we follow your thinking, we'll end up with a massive group of poor, hard-working peasants and a small group of the ultra rich. Is that what you want?

Already happened.

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Divide&rule is the name of the game. Don't get sucked in.

So, you want everyone to have no rights. If we follow your thinking, we'll end up with a massive group of poor, hard-working peasants and a small group of the ultra rich. Is that what you want?

Trust me, this country can afford good working conditions (including decent pensions) for all working men&women. The only problem is that the rich want to get even richer, hence they want to squeeze the small guy like you&me even more. And they tell you they can't pay you more. But into salaries and pensions of directors and CEOs. The gap is widening every year. Aren't you fed up with that?? Manufacturing is moved to China, saving millions of pounds, and what happens with the extra profit?

All this country needs to wake up to the fact that its people are being raped by the banks.

6 month banks' profits made out of QE (that's your money that the gov is giving out to the banks for free) would satisfy all UK workers' demands for years.

+1, although sometimes you have problems with the opposite extreme - unions trying to disrupt everything unless their members get paid a fortune, and as for expecting them to actually ever turn up and do some work... There's a balance to be struck, and there appear to be plenty of posters on here who don't realise that (it disgusts me to hear the ones who automatically complain about every strike; they seem to hold the "I've done you a favour by giving you some peanuts, now shut up and get your nose back to the grindstone and never open your mouth again" attitude).

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That their claims to value the family and recuperation time afforded to them by their current shift patterns is bullsh*t?

Firefighters have a duty imposed on them to request permission to undertake any other paid or unpaid work outside of their normal contracted hours with the Fire Authority whether it be as a one off, seasonal, occasional or regular secondary employment. Many other employers do not require this from their staff and so it is very easy to confirm the fact that one in three firefighters at some time have undertaken some form of secondary employment. This information has been passed to the media and span in such a way as to undermine the firefighters. Common sense would suggest a few have regular secondary employment but many may not.

The nature of the job that firefighters do requires people who are generally proud, resourceful, skilled and industrious and it is no suprise that they would forego their spare time to undertake extra work when required to supplement their incomes and provide for their families.

Should they be demonised by the media for this very basic right, to be able to work in order to live!

Support your firefighters!

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The service should be cut by a third, if not, half.

Smoking is on the rapid decrease and it can no longer be done inside public places. Very few people have open fires in their homes.

The biggest requirement for the fire service was industrial accidents and our industrial activity has contracted massively over recent decades. The fire service should do the same.

Where I've had contact with them there always seems to be a severe case of 'too many cooks'. In the cases of most road accidents involving a couple of vehicles I can't see the need for more than 3 or 4 firefighters ideally in some sort of smaller vehicle.

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They are not striking over pay. The dispute in London has nothing whatsoever to do with wages.

The firefighters were issued with a 90 day notice telling them to accept new contracts and terms and conditions otherwise they would be sacked. They had a strike ballot with a 79% positive vote to strike. If the threat of sack is withdrawn they will call off strikes and resume negotiations regarding shift changes.

Firefighters work unsociable hours. The employers are imposing a new system whereby the hours worked are less family friendly. (Remember the physical nature of the job means the vast majority of frontline firefighters are in their 20's and 30's and consequently will have young families.)

Many commentators believe that the change in shifts may have a far more sinister undertone than merely affecting firefighters patterns of work and is a precursor to allowing the reduction of night time cover by removing fire engines from stations at night. The current shift system makes this both an administrative and logistical nightmare.

Ultimately this strike may affect the fire cover you receive at night. Support your firefighters!

I didn't say it was. They have gone on strike over pay before though.

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They are not striking over pay. The dispute in London has nothing whatsoever to do with wages.

The firefighters were issued with a 90 day notice telling them to accept new contracts and terms and conditions otherwise they would be sacked. They had a strike ballot with a 79% positive vote to strike. If the threat of sack is withdrawn they will call off strikes and resume negotiations regarding shift changes.

Firefighters work unsociable hours. The employers are imposing a new system whereby the hours worked are less family friendly. (Remember the physical nature of the job means the vast majority of frontline firefighters are in their 20's and 30's and consequently will have young families.)

Many commentators believe that the change in shifts may have a far more sinister undertone than merely affecting firefighters patterns of work and is a precursor to allowing the reduction of night time cover by removing fire engines from stations at night. The current shift system makes this both an administrative and logistical nightmare.

Ultimately this strike may affect the fire cover you receive at night. Support your firefighters!

Oopsadaisy, you forgot to mention that every single other crew outside London already works these new 'sinister & draconian' shifts. :rolleyes:

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The shift pattern in London for the firefighters is two 9 hour days followed by two 15 hour nights with three full days recovery....

More firecalls occur during the day than at night.

Hmmmmm, so the current shift pattern in London only is that firefighters work less day hours than night hours, even though more firecalls occur during the day???? :blink:

One would think it would therefore be wise to get them to work more hours during the day then, just like EVERY OTHER FIRE CREW IN THE COUNTRY!!!!

FFS, it ain't rocket science!

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Oopsadaisy, you forgot to mention that every single other crew outside London already works these new 'sinister & draconian' shifts. :rolleyes:

Did you glean this "fact" from the Daily Mail by any chance? There is a campaign by the employers and other vested interests to undermine the firefighters strike action using the media. This is common with any strike action undertaken by any workforce in Britain. Participating in this forum for any length of time would surely convince one to regard the mainstream media as merely vocal pieces for a small and powerful fraternity.

The vast majority of whole time firefighters in this country work the exact same shift as London. However some brigades have altered firefighters shift patterns under the guise of modernisation. Afterwards there has in every case been a subsequent reduction in fire cover.

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  • 245 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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