Harry Monk Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 I did not comment on the differential in wages of your chosen profession between now and then. I only commented it was above average wage where more educated people would be on less. There was nothing to stop more educated people from doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corevalue Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Lot's of those people you describe earn more than that. Also how many of them do shift work like the lorry drivers. Very few engineers under the age of 30 earn that much. Very few carry on doing engineering once they get past 30, unless they go contract. Most wind up leaving the profession or ascending into "management", whatever that is. The half-life of knowledge for an engineer is about 18 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybernoid Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Lot's of those people you describe earn more than that. Also how many of them do shift work like the lorry drivers. I think it's 'some' rather than 'lots', 30k is a lot for a science grad. I don't see a problem with a lorry driver earning that, good for them, but it's not true to say that those with more qualifications in arguably more difficult fields typically get more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldberry Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Wrong , the NMW was to put a floor under wages, and stop explotation. People higher up the ladder did not need to have rises to keep pay differentials the NMW was not about that. How would the people receiving the NMW have any affect on someone on £50k. It would have a more significant effect in the region around the NMW level. If two people previously recieved £3 and £6 per hour prior to NMW, then changed to £5 and £6 per hour. Would the £6 per hour not feel aggrieved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbonic Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Yes, quite possibly, but all I am saying is that I used to be paid that much to do that job (and tens of thousands of others like me) but the work is all being done by eastern Europeans now as they have lower operating costs. No other work within 100 miles of here so I'm on the Dole and accepting of it. One of the problems with east european truckers is that we've no control or idea of how well trained they are, or if they use their own rigs, how well maintained it is. Whereas the HGV test in the UK is pretty strict. For that reason alone truckers in charge of a 40 tonne artic deserve a good salary. I assume that it's the supermarkets and such like that increase their margins by paying £100 pw, whereas it's the general taxpayer that picks up the tab if some badly trained Lithuanian trucker with little experience of UK road conditions causes a massive pile up on the M1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldberry Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 There was nothing to stop more educated people from doing it. I never said there was. FWIW Bus drivers get circa £19k pa (from a Stagecoach bus career advert on the back of the bus) The rate for this type of job, driving, in the UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 I think it's 'some' rather than 'lots', 30k is a lot for a science grad. I don't see a problem with a lorry driver earning that, good for them, but it's not true to say that those with more qualifications in arguably more difficult fields typically get more. Grad's yes , they won't earn big money the day they leave uni , but he said highly qualified people in time highly qualified people with experience( which is part of being qualified ) will earn more. I worked for a major drug company and after a few years there they earn't very good money. When the place closed they were the first to get new jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat Puppet Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 I saw in the GDP report that construction spending, unlike much of the rest of the economy, is near its all time highs. What exactly is being built? All I see is that the roads are all torn up but I never see anyone doing anything about it during daylight hours. dubsie you are on site - what's going on in Britain's strongest sector? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybernoid Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Well, whoever earns what, none of it is enough to buy a modest home, so everyones fked no matter what they do for 'a living'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 It would have a more significant effect in the region around the NMW level. If two people previously recieved £3 and £6 per hour prior to NMW, then changed to £5 and £6 per hour. Would the £6 per hour not feel aggrieved? Not as much as the one was aggrieved when he/she was only on £3 . Anyway that is not the point you said everyone on higher wages should have got an increase to keep diffirentials when the NMW came in . It did not happen and it was not an issue. My experience was most people on higher money were glad to see a floor put under the wages of the low paid. Will say it again see if it can sink in this time the NMW was bought in to put a floor under wages it was not about differentials and differentials have never been an issue. Or can you quote any industy or group of people who campained for a rise to keep a differential since the NMW came into affect ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldberry Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Grad's yes , they won't earn big money the day they leave uni , but he said highly qualified people in time highly qualified people with experience( which is part of being qualified ) will earn more. From google search. In 2010, the average salary for Chartered Engineer jobs is £38,661. Compared to 2009, this is a change of -7%. Figure based on 17 respondents in the 2010 UK data survey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awaytogo Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 I work with a lot of tradesmen and no-one who's any good works for less than £120 a day. £150 would be average and a sparky like your guy would get £200. This is private domestic work. Most are still busy. A lot of sparkys cannot get work never mind £200 a day as work has started to dry up now the housing boom is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 From google search. In 2010, the average salary for Chartered Engineer jobs is £38,661. Compared to 2009, this is a change of -7%. Figure based on 17 respondents in the 2010 UK data survey. More than the lorry driver then , I asked you to name some on less as that was your statement LESS and you name one on more !!! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldberry Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 A floor under wages was not required. The NMW should be abolished. All state benefits should be removed. A rate for a job without government intervention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 there are plenty of people in the trade who prefer employment rather than self employment. The construction industry has always been crap but it says something when someone selling work makes more from one post than the actual person doing the actual job. These consultants are leeching off the back of hard working people and calling it a job. I do agree though if your prepared to work for yourself and put in the hours then you can do well. One person I know has downed tools and now works as a caretaker in a public building. Yes it says the person doing the job is an idiot. Now this is acceptable in your first role through an agency. Most people get stung the first time. To be expected. However are you really saying that the majority of construction workers through agencies are getting less than 50% of the gross charge ?! If so, and I seriously doubt it, then they deserve all they get. It is not difficult to work out/find out the gross charge for your work. You then negotiate accordingly with the agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedDweller Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 One of the problems with east european truckers is that we've no control or idea of how well trained they are, or if they use their own rigs, how well maintained it is. Whereas the HGV test in the UK is pretty strict. For that reason alone truckers in charge of a 40 tonne artic deserve a good salary. I assume that it's the supermarkets and such like that increase their margins by paying £100 pw, whereas it's the general taxpayer that picks up the tab if some badly trained Lithuanian trucker with little experience of UK road conditions causes a massive pile up on the M1. I'm a fully paid up europhile .. most of my work is in Europe .. Something will have to be done at European level about the standards of driving in the transport industry .. I do 75,000 KM in Europe every year and if I die on the road it will be under the wheels of a Hungarian truck .. In the UK the Eastern European drivers do have some fear because of the change of the rule of the road .. In the rest of Europe they don't .. I was working the Bavarian traffic police a couple of months ago and one of them told me that they recently had a massive pileup on the A3 in which two people died, and the truck driver told the policeman that he had been indicating for nearly a minute and that should be enough time for the cars to "Get out of the way" .. He just pulled into the outside lane .. Something will have to be done .. the Bavarian policeman was saying that they want to ban drivers after the first offence and that they will only be allowed to drive in Germany after taking a German LKW test .. What will happen is that there will be a huge multiple death pileup involving a driver who has had so many convictions in Germany that if he was German he would be banned .. then will be a public outcry .. Also if you are worried about what this has done to the British transport industry .. you should see what has happened to the German's .. Just look at the traffic .. German owned trailers have German plates on them but the tractor units are now 70% foreign whcih would suggest that compared with 20 years ago the number of drivers must have dropped by half .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldberry Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 More than the lorry driver then , I asked you to name some on less as that was your statement LESS and you name one on more !!! lol Cybernoid responded previously. Therefore I did not need to respond. The chartered engineers average salary was posted for information only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim123 Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 £700 per week to drive a lorry about? That's £36400 per annum based on a 52 week working year. Well over the national average wage for what would be considered a low skill job. There are highly qualified professionals out there on less than this. Ludicrously overpaid. I think you missed the bit where he said that he worked 15 hours a day to earn that tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedDweller Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 A lot of sparkys cannot get work never mind £200 a day as work has started to dry up now the housing boom is over. yeah but there are sparks and sparks .. A friend of mine is a project manager .. A few years ago there were lots of sparks who would walk into the office onthe first day and tell him that they only do new build or full refurb .. they don't do repairs and they don't do off plan .. they DO charge £350 a day .. Then you had the normal guys who did whatever you needed doing and charged £250 a day .. He did enjoy it when a Pain in the **** spark called him the other day offering to work for £200 a day .. The good guys will always have work, the crap/ bolshie ones will moan about the "state of the industry" .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Cybernoid responded previously. Therefore I did not need to respond. The chartered engineers average salary was posted for information only. You are unable to answer the questtion that i posted in respect of your statement . Makes your statement irrelavant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Monk Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 I never said there was. FWIW Bus drivers get circa £19k pa (from a Stagecoach bus career advert on the back of the bus) The rate for this type of job, driving, in the UK? Driving a bus is a bit different to driving a truck to Moscow or Istanbul or somesuch so it's not really comparable. However, like most other jobs it could be outsourced, so it was. I imagine in 30 or 40 years it will be automated, but that won't be my concern then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldberry Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 I think you missed the bit where he said that he worked 15 hours a day to earn that tim What happened to the working time directive which limits truck drivers to 56 hours over a 7 day period? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldberry Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 You are unable to answer the questtion that i posted in respect of your statement . Makes your statement irrelavant. I agreed with Cybernoid. My response was not required. Not all engineers are chartered, therefore will earn less than that quoted figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 I agreed with Cybernoid. My response was not required. Not all engineers are chartered, therefore will earn less than that quoted figure. They are not highly qualified then are they , you said highly qualified , third attempt to get you to answer the question and still you failed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Woods? Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 It would have a more significant effect in the region around the NMW level. If two people previously recieved £3 and £6 per hour prior to NMW, then changed to £5 and £6 per hour. Would the £6 per hour not feel aggrieved? No, not if they felt they were paid fairly beforehand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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