Child Benefit

[or in excess of]

It appears that if you are a higher rate tax payer (with children), you will have to tell HMRC, otherwise you will continue to be paid child benefit. If you don`t, and are found out, you will be fined. So the success of this "system" depends on the honesty of each individual.Don`t government departments cross reference data, so they could automatically detect the people concerned? It`s the same if a higher rate taxpayer has a couple of million in bank accounts. If he doesn`t inform HMRC, he pays 20% tax on interest, rather than 40%.Probably the same with people with 2nd homes. Unless they "fess up", they will escape cgt, etc. Unbelievable.

[SarahBell]

The tax credit system could have dealt with this.

Cancel all CB and make people get it in their tax credits.

Much as I think the TC system is a bag of windypiss it's probably the most sensible way of tackling this.

[White Craw]

The tax credit system could have dealt with this.

Cancel all CB and make people get it in their tax credits.

Much as I think the TC system is a bag of windypiss it's probably the most sensible way of tackling this.

Second all the above.

The government seems to want to means test families/couples receiving CB but not by a measure directly related to the income of such families/couples.

[leicestersq]

The tax credit system could have dealt with this.

Cancel all CB and make people get it in their tax credits.

Much as I think the TC system is a bag of windypiss it's probably the most sensible way of tackling this.

What a mess the government have created for themselves by leaping in with this ill thought out change.

I disagree with you method of dealing with it though. Cancel all child benefit. Problem solved.

[ma-ku]

What a mess the government have created for themselves by leaping in with this ill thought out change.

I disagree with you method of dealing with it though. Cancel all child benefit. Problem solved.

I think they will ditch this policy once the electoral cost becomes clear. The conservative leaning friends and colleagues that I know that are going to be affected by this are seething and definately looking to kick someone in the nuts at the ballot box. ho hum

Edited October 29, 2010 by ma-ku

[porca misèria]

The tax credit system could have dealt with this.

Cancel all CB and make people get it in their tax credits.

Much as I think the TC system is a bag of windypiss it's probably the most sensible way of tackling this.

Wouldn't that undermine the fundamental principle of child benefit? Namely, a payment directly to the mother. From the old stereotype of the working man who spends his paycheque in the pub on a Friday night.

Ourtaged headlines in the grauniad. Wimmins Hour blows a fuse. Aaargh!!!

/me recollects his parents complaining of £3/week family allowance costing £6/week tax, with the difference being the cost of administering it.

[SarahBell]

Wouldn't that undermine the fundamental principle of child benefit? Namely, a payment directly to the mother. From the old stereotype of the working man who spends his paycheque in the pub on a Friday night.

Ourtaged headlines in the grauniad. Wimmins Hour blows a fuse. Aaargh!!!

/me recollects his parents complaining of £3/week family allowance costing £6/week tax, with the difference being the cost of administering it.

Women can fill in the tax credit form too you know...

[porca misèria]

Women can fill in the tax credit form too you know...

Of course! That's not the story though: there's a powerful lobby (of which wimmins hour is a prominent example) living in a timewarp.

BTW, I should make it clear: I would never wish to disparage of women (people of the female sex). That's why I spell the word "wimmin" when I say rude things about Ms Harfwit's lobby: it's an attempt to make a distinction.

[or in excess of]

It appears that if you are a higher rate tax payer (with children), you will have to tell HMRC, otherwise you will continue to be paid child benefit. If you don`t, and are found out, you will be fined. So the success of this "system" depends on the honesty of each individual.Don`t government departments cross reference data, so they could automatically detect the people concerned? It`s the same if a higher rate taxpayer has a couple of million in bank accounts. If he doesn`t inform HMRC, he pays 20% tax on interest, rather than 40%.Probably the same with people with 2nd homes. Unless they "fess up", they will escape cgt, etc. Unbelievable.

The best bit is that "sources" have admitted it would be difficult to enforce. Looks dead in the water already.

[tim123]

It appears that if you are a higher rate tax payer (with children), you will have to tell HMRC, otherwise you will continue to be paid child benefit. If you don`t, and are found out, you will be fined. So the success of this "system" depends on the honesty of each individual.Don`t government departments cross reference data, so they could automatically detect the people concerned?

Often the benefit will be going to a non working mother with the HR taxpayer the father. With people no longer automatically sharing a surname it isn't always going to be obvoious who shouldn't be claiming.

tim

[Coldberry]

Cancel all CB

That's better.

Why should I pay for others children? Selfish little brats they spawned to replace themselves.

If people want to have children, that's fine. But not with my money.

[tim123]

The best bit is that "sources" have admitted it would be difficult to enforce. Looks dead in the water already.

It's very very difficult to enforce CGT. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't have it

tim

[The Pale Rider]

Will someone with £21000 housing benefit on top of other benefits still be eligible for CB?

[monks]

That's better.

Why should I pay for others children? Selfish little brats they spawned to replace themselves.

If people want to have children, that's fine. But not with my money.

Suppose you won't need medical care when you are older ? Or food, travel, clothes, accomodation, energy etc etc...

All provided by people younger than you - ie other peoples kids

[I want a house!]

That's better.

Why should I pay for others children? Selfish little brats they spawned to replace themselves.

If people want to have children, that's fine. But not with my money.

My selfish little brat that I've spawned doesn't want to have to work all his life to support your pension payment of £140 pm > approx £86.67 pm. Perhaps we should cancel state pension too so that you don't steal off my offspring.

I don't really mean what I said above but that is the natural retort for an ill thought out response like yours.

Anyway, what I truly believe is that all CB should be scrapped and the tax saved should be deducted from all tax payers in the country. Nice and fair. Less tax for all and so one should save for their own pension.

While we at it, scrap the NHS too, get your own private health insurance. This will become cheaper with economy of scale. Those who cannot afford it, well unlucky...

How's that for the free market!

[rxe]

The problem with assessing anything to do with "household" income is that it forces the state into people's personal circumstances. If someone on tax credits has a short term relationship with someone affluent, does it count? Should the report a 3 week fling where the new squeeze shacked up and paid some bills? How do they tell the difference between a casual shag and a "partner"?

Three points:

1) To the people who wonder why the rich don't declare their interest - all UK banks report to the revenue. So if you don't declare it and the bank says you're receiving it, you'll get an investigation.

2) Given that our tax systems operates at an individual level, what happens if I say to my wife "are you claiming child benefit?"....she says no, so I don't declare it. She then goes and claims it. Who are they going to go after? Me probably, but given my wife is an adult (clearly...) with her own bank account, how the hell would I know?

3) Enforcement could be simple. Make the penalties so financially horrific that trying to evade isn't worth it. 10x the benefit claimed or similar.

[Injin]

Quote from someone I was just talking about this with

"If we are a familty unit for this, I want to be a family unit for income tax as well. MY income can become OUR income and they can send me ten grand back."

[Coldberry]

Suppose you won't need medical care when you are older ? Or food, travel, clothes, accomodation, energy etc etc...

All provided by people younger than you - ie other peoples kids

That's fine. Have kids but bear the full cost yourself. Not supported through my taxes.

[pilchardthecat]

Quote from someone I was just talking about this with

"If we are a familty unit for this, I want to be a family unit for income tax as well. MY income can become OUR income and they can send me ten grand back."

That's kind of my thinking. The entire tax system is designed around the indiviual, except when it suits them.

[Bosh]

I pay the higher rate of tax and my wife does not work. I will lose out on this. I also recognise that in these difficult times cuts have to be made.

I have discussed this with the wife and we agreed that we can cut back further and survive without CB.

The biggest complaint is like many others. I am happy to do this but not if others who with joint incomes exceed my income still get CB... Simple really.

I also think CB should be paid through tax credits and based on household income.

I say again I would, without fuss agree to give up CB if this was a level playing field.

Plenty like me out there.

[Coldberry]

I don't really mean what I said above but that is the natural retort for an ill thought out response like yours.

Anyway, what I truly believe is that all CB should be scrapped.

Berate me then agree with me.

???

[I want a house!]

That's fine. Have kids but bear the full cost yourself. Not supported through my taxes.

Did you actually read their reply to you?? Didn't look like it.

[fluffy666]

The problem with assessing anything to do with "household" income is that it forces the state into people's personal circumstances. If someone on tax credits has a short term relationship with someone affluent, does it count? Should the report a 3 week fling where the new squeeze shacked up and paid some bills? How do they tell the difference between a casual shag and a "partner"?

Three points:

1) To the people who wonder why the rich don't declare their interest - all UK banks report to the revenue. So if you don't declare it and the bank says you're receiving it, you'll get an investigation.

2) Given that our tax systems operates at an individual level, what happens if I say to my wife "are you claiming child benefit?"....she says no, so I don't declare it. She then goes and claims it. Who are they going to go after? Me probably, but given my wife is an adult (clearly...) with her own bank account, how the hell would I know?

3) Enforcement could be simple. Make the penalties so financially horrific that trying to evade isn't worth it. 10x the benefit claimed or similar.

The problem with (3) is that you are going to have a fair number of marginal cases. After all, by the time you account for NI, voucher systems, pension payments, other work benefits, bonuses, pay rises, etc, it's often fairly hard to work out your exact income month to month. If I pay higher rate tax for 1 month of the year because of a bonus does that cancel CB for the whole tax year?

Now add in huge penalties for getting it wrong..

It really is a spectacular own goal. Target swing voters with a highly intrusive income cut.

[I want a house!]

Berate me then agree with me.

???

Yes, I have a split personality. I should apply for disability allowance but the other me disagrees. Not easy.

[Coldberry]

Did you actually read their reply to you?? Didn't look like it.

I did read it. I thought it nonsense.

When the kids become adults they get paid for doing stuff like that. It's called a job.