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guitarman001

Can The Uk Recover?

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Serious question here... My grandad was in the Royal Navy for years, travelled the world and then settled back in the UK with my gran to have a family. He says the UK is finished - he looks at all the things the Germans and others have done better than us (including their better pensions) and thinks we'd have been better losing the war! He deplores the anti-social society we have nowadays, the crippling housing costs, benefits gone mad, the decline of real design/manufacturing jobs in the town he settled in, the list is endless. He strongly advises me to get out while I can and I always wonder about it. Can the UK recover or is it doomed to be a parasite? Is this a bit like approaching the bottom in a stock market - wait until prices become cheaper and hope a recession can change things? Or is the rot set in real deep?

A friend of mine is off to Holland next month doing a job I'd love to do (5k/month tax-free and lots of expenses linked to the space industry - I'd have to be 40-50 y/o in the UK to earn the same crust) and so I may be taking a trip out there in a year or so to scope the place out. Any other youngsters on here considering something similar?

So what do you think - can the UK REALLY recover , not only from monetary problems but from social ills (I don't see the sheeple wising up and rebelling anytime soon)? Or are we stuffed completely? No nut-job answers, please.

Edited by guitarman001

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The UK is a landmass with a bunch of people on it. Not much in the way of natural resources. In this respect, is it that different from France or Germany ?

Of course it can change if the mindset/expectations/efforts of people moved to make it so. The barriers are not physical.

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Your mates 5k a month job in the European " space " industry might not last very long.

Most people with a space industry job based in Holland actually work in pharmaceutical export ;)

There is no such thing as recovery, only change.

I see us getting poorer under a richer ruling class.

Longer term that maybe ends in insurrection particularly if fuel / energy become unaffordable for working people.

You should concern yourself with where you will feel happiest on balance

Edited by bricor mortis

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Serious question here... My grandad was in the Royal Navy for years, travelled the world and then settled back in the UK with my gran to have a family. He says the UK is finished - he looks at all the things the Germans and others have done better than us (including their better pensions) and thinks we'd have been better losing the war! He deplores the anti-social society we have nowadays, the crippling housing costs, benefits gone mad, the decline of real design/manufacturing jobs in the town he settled in, the list is endless. He strongly advises me to get out while I can and I always wonder about it. Can the UK recover or is it doomed to be a parasite? Is this a bit like approaching the bottom in a stock market - wait until prices become cheaper and hope a recession can change things? Or is the rot set in real deep?

A friend of mine is off to Holland next month doing a job I'd love to do (5k/month tax-free and lots of expenses linked to the space industry - I'd have to be 40-50 y/o in the UK to earn the same crust) and so I may be taking a trip out there in a year or so to scope the place out. Any other youngsters on here considering something similar?

So what do you think - can the UK REALLY recover , not only from monetary problems but from social ills (I don't see the sheeple wising up and rebelling anytime soon)? Or are we stuffed completely? No nut-job answers, please.

Germany would have done even better if it won the war. There is a strong argument that the UK should have done a deal with Hitler, it would have been an easy empire to defeat in, say 1947, as they were no where near nuclear weapons and the West had hundreds. The Cold war would never have happened as Hitler could have dealt with the Bolsheviks. The UK has ahd a good deal with the Empire, losing it was inevitable even if the USA engineered its downfall.

That said, Britain doesn't have much to recover from, its still far far better financial state than it was 30 years ago. The world has changed and the UK simply has to compete on a bigger playing field. One friends state sponsored space job doesn't mean much - the UK have a very successful space and aeronautics industry. Its also getting quite successful with Internet business.

Socially, well, I don't know. Thats up to you.

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A friend of mine is off to Holland next month doing a job I'd love to do (5k/month tax-free and lots of expenses linked to the space industry - I'd have to be 40-50 y/o in the UK to earn the same crust) and so I may be taking a trip out there in a year or so to scope the place out. Any other youngsters on here considering something similar?

That'll be ESTEC, which is part of ESA. Good international-org salaries.

Unless it's changed since my time, very few Brits can get staff jobs at ESA, because the UK contributes so little to their budget. Brits get the outsourced jobs, meaning terms and conditions that look a whole lot less generous. Is your friend a Brit, or does he/she hold dual nationality with a country that takes space seriously?

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What we've had over the last thirty years is our own version of the Dutch Disease.

In economics, the Dutch disease is a concept that purportedly explains the apparent
relationship between the increase in exploitation of natural resources and a decline in the manufacturing sector
. The claimed mechanism is that an increase in revenues from natural resources (or inflows of foreign aid) will make a given nation's currency stronger compared to that of other nations (manifest in an exchange rate), resulting in the nation's other exports becoming more expensive for other countries to buy, making the manufacturing sector less competitive

alistair_darling.png

(Old graphic, sorry Darling.)

The transition will be painful, but we can do it, just as the Dutch did.

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OP and others need to keep a sense of perspective.

We are in the top few % of the world by almost any metric e.g. healthcare, education, per capita GDP.

I am the the first to criticise benefit dependency, but that same welfare state is there to help us if we ever need it.

I even road the public sector gravy train so would be a hypocrite to complain about that.

Despite what we say here on a daily basis, the UK isn't really a bad place to live.

I am 99% decided on doing a spell in another country, though will be moving from a position of strength from a top 5% country to a top 1% country more in line with my values and way of life that I want to lead.

It's a shame we've squanderered the lead, but the UK isn't finished by a long way.

Edited by Kyoto

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That'll be ESTEC, which is part of ESA. Good international-org salaries.

Unless it's changed since my time, very few Brits can get staff jobs at ESA, because the UK contributes so little to their budget. Brits get the outsourced jobs, meaning terms and conditions that look a whole lot less generous. Is your friend a Brit, or does he/she hold dual nationality with a country that takes space seriously?

Well guessed! He's a Brit - in fact he told me that Britain is somewhat under-represented by the company and they're looking to even things out. But I don't pretend to know too much.

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Your mates 5k a month job in the European " space " industry might not last very long.

Most people with a space industry job based in Holland actually work in pharmaceutical export ;)

There is no such thing as recovery, only change.

I see us getting poorer under a richer ruling class.

Longer term that maybe ends in insurrection particularly if fuel / energy become unaffordable for working people.

You should concern yourself with where you will feel happiest on balance

Quite.

And yes, I think we COULD recover. I'm not sure I'd like us to though, as I cant see HOW we could recover without things getting way nastier than I'd like.

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To do what work, out of interest? :)

The plan is usually get out of Blighty at all costs, then come back a few years later after staying in a country they grew to hate for too long.

Im abroad right now, been away for many years but wil come back soon ... as much as i am not dying to come back its better then most places ... AND 1000 times better then police state. freezing cold, sterile, franchised Canada, where the most boring English speaking nation on the planet live.

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Well Britain has been in decline for around 100 years , it's hard to see the country making a V shaped recovery like the politicians seem to think.The rotten core of the uk needs to be gutted and the economy needs to be built back up again from scratch.

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OP and others need to keep a sense of perspective.

We are in the top few % of the world by almost any metric e.g. healthcare, education, per capita GDP.

I am the the first to criticise benefit dependency, but that same welfare state is there to help us if we ever need it.

I even road the public sector gravy train so would be a hypocrite to complain about that.

Despite what we say here on a daily basis, the UK isn't really a bad place to live.

I am 99% decided on doing a spell in another country, though will be moving from a position of strength from a top 5% country to a top 1% country more in line with my values and way of life that I want to lead.

It's a shame we've squanderered the lead, but the UK isn't finished by a long way.

I have to agree. I lived in New Zealand for a number of years and was in Oz on a monthly basis in that time. While both places have their charms, both have their down sides in terms of social ills, economic problems and (in Nz especially) very costly public services which are largely unsubsidized. £30 to see a GP for example. Not to mention big weather issues, drought, fires, earthquakes, and in Oz, killer wildlife. And it's a near cultural desert if you are into classical music and the arts. Not for me thanks.

As for the US, you'd have to have your head examined. The punitive and abritrary legal system, absence of any welfare state (which leads to much larger numbers of desperate people with nothing to lose), gun crime, to say nothing of its own economic woes. I wouldn't live there for for free.

I'd consider a move to France or Germany (not Spain - too many chavs with money settled there), Switzerland maybe - but to make the case for the UK, we are still in the top half-dozen economies, have a world class higher education system, a temperate climate, strong cultural life (and I don't mean the shit on peak time TV), and a political system that for all the stick it gets here is a lot less corrupt than 90 odd percent of other countries. Our infrastructure isn't too bad either if you except the lack of capacity in the south east rail network.

No, we're not finished by any means.

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We have 2 kids under 3 and are currently looking at going to Oz for 4-6 weeks to see what we think about maybe trying to live there for a few years in a couple of years time before making our final life plans as looking at the UK's longer term prospects I think they are crap.

However having been to Oz before and travelled the World the only criteria that matter for us with our kids future prosperity in mind are

  • Has a lot of natural resources / can be self sufficient
  • Economy is likely to still grow over the next 50 years
  • Has a high standard of living
  • Western / English speaking

USA is far worse than UK but Canada might still be on our potential list although I am open to suggestions :)

Edited by GeordieAndy

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Can the UK recover?

Definitely, there's considerable physical, social, intellectual and financial capital in this country. But…what if the recovery took 10 years? That's a pretty hefty opportunity cost to spend ten years of your working life in a stagnating economy. I too am thinking of emigrating while I'm still young enough to throw up my life and start again. I've been eyeing up the Czech Republic as a place to move to, if you're not paying local payroll taxes it's very cheap place to live and had 6% GDP growth in the good years and, unlike us, still has sound public finances. There is the small matter of mastering Czech of course, and the life of an immigrant isn't easy even if you're cushioned with a bit of money. Still I could use a bit of bloody stimulation!

Edited by kenzdawg

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The UK could recover but it would come at a price: we'd have to sacrifice the bubblicious housing market.

I don't think we're ready for that yet. But it's not only homeowners and landlords that have a VI in parasitism, the entire accounting industry would have to go if we decided to run a sensible economy. You can't have a 10,000 page tax code and expect business to flourish.

Then there's the benefit claimants, "private" industry that rely on government subsidy, the financial sector and pension schemes that would be bankrupt if it wasn't for bailouts, not forgetting the boomer " me me me" generation that expect their freebies to be ringfenced.

The cold hard truth is that there are more leechers now than hosts, it doesn't bode well for recovery.

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Well Britain has been in decline for around 100 years , it's hard to see the country making a V shaped recovery like the politicians seem to think.The rotten core of the uk needs to be gutted and the economy needs to be built back up again from scratch.

Right, we're also declining from the biggest 'market top' since the Roman Empire and they don't look like making a come-back any time soon. Since the sun set on the British Empire and the industrial, commercial, military and political revolutions that drove it, I still think we've got a long way to go before we hit bottom.

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Serious question here... My grandad was in the Royal Navy for years, travelled the world and then settled back in the UK with my gran to have a family. He says the UK is finished - he looks at all the things the Germans and others have done better than us (including their better pensions) and thinks we'd have been better losing the war! He deplores the anti-social society we have nowadays, the crippling housing costs, benefits gone mad, the decline of real design/manufacturing jobs in the town he settled in, the list is endless. He strongly advises me to get out while I can and I always wonder about it. Can the UK recover or is it doomed to be a parasite? Is this a bit like approaching the bottom in a stock market - wait until prices become cheaper and hope a recession can change things? Or is the rot set in real deep?

A friend of mine is off to Holland next month doing a job I'd love to do (5k/month tax-free and lots of expenses linked to the space industry - I'd have to be 40-50 y/o in the UK to earn the same crust) and so I may be taking a trip out there in a year or so to scope the place out. Any other youngsters on here considering something similar?

So what do you think - can the UK REALLY recover , not only from monetary problems but from social ills (I don't see the sheeple wising up and rebelling anytime soon)? Or are we stuffed completely? No nut-job answers, please.

no

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We will have to start making stuff again - it's our only hope. Any other way, such as financial services, is just raw capitalism, which is doomed.

I'm going to spend half the year renting in the Canaries and the summers here. I've spent the last 4 years learning spanish ready for it. I'm finishing work at 55 and just gonna take it easy!

I cannot stand it here, when they change the flucking clocks, just to keep the flucking Scotts Barrstards quiet. 5 months of damp grey. No thanks. B)

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The UK is a landmass with a bunch of people on it. Not much in the way of natural resources. In this respect, is it that different from France or Germany ?

2 main differences:

1. France + Germany have much more land and could sustain themselves in terms of food and energy if necessary.

2. Different mind sets of the majority of the population. UK sheep = work harder not smarter.

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The plan is usually get out of Blighty at all costs, then come back a few years later after staying in a country they grew to hate for too long.

Im abroad right now, been away for many years but wil come back soon ... as much as i am not dying to come back its better then most places ... AND 1000 times better then police state. freezing cold, sterile, franchised Canada, where the most boring English speaking nation on the planet live.

Are you wearing rose tinted glasses?

Must admit I've never been to Canada but why anyone who has escaped would think about coming back seems strange to me.

My auntie has just had a little break in her "boring" life. Someone came into her house, took the car keys from her kitchen table and stole her car. Aye if it's a little excitement you like, the UK could provide years of it.

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No. The UK is completely ******ed, and it was all deliberate.

That's why we aim to float free and leave the English to drown in their own blood.

Toodle pip.

Edited by PrivateerMk2

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He/she said no nutjobs please.

Britain is a lucky country, much more lucky than Israel, let alone lost causes like Pakistan and Haiti. But due to its post-war economic success, there's a clique that wants to plunder it and freeze out as many people as possible. When the cuts real hit and fuel gets more expensive we could see a shake-up of the system (perhaps inspired by France, like France was inspired by the War of Independence).

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UK only really thrived on slave labour which created the wealth for innovation.

It's going to be the German century. They've put the graft in and have created a benevolent cycle in terms of work ethic, creativity and success.

And are too haunted by the nazis to let their society go wrong.

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  • 152 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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