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Land Property Service (Lps) Values

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Ive been looking at some houses for sale and comparing the asking price with that on the LPS web site. I have noticed that the prices being asked are very close or only slightly above that of the LPS. Would this be a fair way to get the value of my own property? How and when did the LPS value the propertys?

Thanks for any help on this matter...Owen

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Ive been looking at some houses for sale and comparing the asking price with that on the LPS web site. I have noticed that the prices being asked are very close or only slightly above that of the LPS. Would this be a fair way to get the value of my own property? How and when did the LPS value the propertys?

Thanks for any help on this matter...Owen

Welcome Owen , you may be the last property Bull left in Norn Iron, don't forget to turn the lights off if you leave ;)

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I made a mistake with the bull/bear thing when signing up lol i thought it ment somthing else. Im defo a Bear...may get my account edited if i can.

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How and when did the LPS value the propertys?

Rateable value was calculated on 1st January 2005. It was just an estimated value based on the (already over inflated) housing market prices at that that time.

Today - the LPS value looks like a reasonable price to pay.

In 2 years time it will look expensive. Some people here calculated that prices will fall to LPS value -30%.

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Rateable value was calculated on 1st January 2005. It was just an estimated value based on the (already over inflated) housing market prices at that that time.

Today - the LPS value looks like a reasonable price to pay.

In 2 years time it will look expensive. Some people here calculated that prices will fall to LPS value -30%.

+1

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Rateable value was calculated on 1st January 2005. It was just an estimated value based on the (already over inflated) housing market prices at that that time.

Today - the LPS value looks like a reasonable price to pay.

In 2 years time it will look expensive. Some people here calculated that prices will fall to LPS value -30%.

Rateable values, as BB says was to be the price the property was worth on the 1st Jan 2005. It was actually done months and years later and calculated back to what it should have been on 1st Jan 2005. Difficult exercise and there are numerous examples where the same house types, in the same street have different rateable values. However it was a difficult task and tolerance will have to be given.

From an historical price point of view we are looking at the 2004 Q4 figures, with an average price for the whole of NI of £110,000. The 2005Q1 figures were actually slightly lower. This price, at the time was 28% below that of the UK. This is lower than the long term average difference and hard to believe that only a few years later we actually went above that UK figure. The important FTB'er house price to FTB'er average income was 4.1, at that stage, which again compared very well with the UK figure of 4.8. This (NI) ratio actually went up to almost 8 at one stage. It is now back to 3.9, one of the lowest and therefore most affordable regions in the UK for FTB'ers, based on this Nationwide ratio.

Ratable Value -30%, as BB suggests would take the NI average price down to £77,000. This would be a drop of over 40% from today's prices and a total drop of 66% from peak. In fairness to BB, he has been consistent in this claim for some time.

As for me I suggested, to a lot of ridicule that the new-build, in particular had settled at or thereabout the bottom in spring 2008. I said it would bounce around, up and down for 3 or 4 years thereafter before rising slowly with inflation for another few years after that.

Up until that stage the NI prices had fallen over 40% (from £228k to £136k)in roughly 18 months from the peak. Since that it has bounced both up and down and landed at £130k, a further drop, from peak of 2.2%. So that's a drop of 40.4% in the first 18 months and a further drop of 2.2% in the following 18 months or so to date. A further 40% drop, as BB suggests may well arrive, who knows. I certainly see more drops and the bounces, I believe for the next 9 months will be more down than up. They will show larger losses than the last 18 months (the next report could very easily do that on its own) but I just cant see the collapse some in here would like. Average prices at the moment are 15% above RV, if RV is comparable with what the Nationwide says it should be (they had move volume then).

Edited by BelfastVI

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On this subject, has anyone had any experience of offering a price at or below LPs RV?

If so, how did the agents and/or vendors take this offer? Did they consider it seriously or treat it as a joke/insult?

I am looking at properties in S/SE Belfast and the asking prices are still £10,000's above RV. I do not want people to consider me as a non serious purchaser, but at the same time I am not going to pay over the odds if I don't have to.

However, I do like this quote:

From http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=153381

You have had the gross misfortune of being at an age where you have been faced with buying your first property at the end of the most historically sustained and grotesque orgy of lending by banks and borrowing by individuals.

Our own government should have taken steps to control it, but it's now plain for everyone to see that they reveled in the political success of the feelgood factor which it produced. A feelgood factor fueled by corrupt banking and morons committing to greater and greater levels of debt, thinking they were getting richer. Their stupidity, greed and outright corruption have denied you the chance, which you rightly assume you have, to buy a reasonable dwelling (within your perceived income bracket) and enjoy a lifestyle you deserve.

You are absolutely correct in your evaluation that a decrease in availability of credit will proportionally affect the final sale value of property. Anybody who thinks otherwise is incapable of understanding the market. Houses are rarely bought for cash, they are purchases with loans. These loans must reflect the borrower's ability to repay them. This basic principle became so distorted and perverted, by everybody who jumped on (or steered) the gravy train, that house prices became entirely detached from average earnings.

Now that the banks suddenly care about your ability to repay the loan, the disparity between earnings and asking prices for property has been exposed. You have been responsible and saved a deposit. You are offering up collateral and demonstrating your ability to repay your loan.You should be in a strong position to negotiate how much you can borrow and how much you are willing to pay. Don't be embarrassed into letting anyone think that you are trying to drive a hard bargain. How many estate agents had a conscience about driving up asking prices and taking higher commissions and how many potential sellers that you meet (never faced with your predicament) had a conscience about escalating house prices, the effect on the wider economy or the impact on young first time buyers. I can tell you, it will be very few. They were all down the pub celebrating rising house prices, oblivious and unconcerned with you or the social and economic consequences. Now your time is coming!

Edited by ravedave

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What I'd like to know is how banks' valuers are valuing property. I'm assuming a fair price (in Belfast) is RV + 10-15% depending on what it needs cosmetically.

At the end of the day, a vendor can ask what they wish and i can offer what I like but if the surveyor, she say no, then the deal is off.

Interestingly, the 3 bed semis I watch in Stranmillis are going for RV +10%. (I'm talking about houses not requiring work).

As for Belfast VI's assertions that new builds are good value - I assume you are talking about houses outside Belfast? I see nothing in the new build sector around BT9/10/11 that is as good value as older housing stock in terms of location, amount of land, and lay-out.

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I would argue that new builds couldn't be considered good value both within and without Belfast. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter what a developer ask for its only worth what someone will pay. With the tightening of credit and the fact by now bank of mum and dad have been bleed dry I can't any positives for developers who are selling developments build on land purchased in the last 5-10 years.

Edited by 2buyornot2buy

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I didn't actually say they were good value or not. That is for others to decide. What I did say is that, based on the nationwide figures they, both new and resale are, for first time buyers amongst the most affordable in the UK. Whether that is precieved as good value is something that will always be debatable.

I said 18 months or so ago that I believed the, particularly newbuild market was there or there-a-bouts the floor, in regards to price drops. Whether that is 'good value' or not is an entirely different matter and will always attract a differing viewpoint. I, more recently said we will see a twin market, where I believed houses beyond 10 or 15 miles from Belfast and particularly those west of the Bann would fall at a greater rate than those in greater Belfast. Even within Belfast there will be markets within Markets when we could even have one market rising whilst the other is still falling. Different people will view either or neither of these as good value. They certainly are better value but I let others decide (the purchasers) if they believe they are 'good value. Some believe the price should be £x,to be considered 'good value' regardless of build costs or even regardless .

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On this subject, has anyone had any experience of offering a price at or below LPs RV?

If so, how did the agents and/or vendors take this offer? Did they consider it seriously or treat it as a joke/insult?

I offered the rateable value for a property. It was £30k below the asking price. I dont think that the agent even passed it on to be honest. He tried desperately to get me to go to £120k. I refused and withdrew my offer after a month. I noticed today that the same property has now went sale agreed. Prob for approx £120k.

The problem is that there are still some people out there who will pay stupid prices for property.They dont see beyond the estate agent and their valuation. Most 'cheeky bids' arnt actually that cheeky at all with the common trend appearing to be offering approx 10-15% less than the asking price. Unless more buyers start playing more hard ball with bids then its hard to see where and when a major drop in prices will actually happen (that most of us want to see) The way it is going at the minute the continued decline in prices is much slower than anticipated.

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I've bought a house in Belfast for 14% over rv. It requires modernisation which will cost approx a further 10% of the rv.

However it is a pretty period home on a lovely treelined street in a great location and has the same rv as nearby 1960s built ( frankly ugly) houses that I wouldn't be interested in buying. It also has great potential to extend to make a home I could live in forever. The rv is irrelevant and inaccurate in this case and there was considerable interest and competition for the house. Just shows the pitfalls of relying on rv.

Conversely I have seen a few ugly, undesirable houses on at under rv and not selling. There's a house in notting hill, just off Malone rd in Belfast with an rv of 700k and not selling at 437k. Why? It's ugly and the rv is miles off the mark.

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I offered the rateable value for a property. It was £30k below the asking price. I dont think that the agent even passed it on to be honest. He tried desperately to get me to go to £120k. I refused and withdrew my offer after a month. I noticed today that the same property has now went sale agreed. Prob for approx £120k.

The problem is that there are still some people out there who will pay stupid prices for property.They dont see beyond the estate agent and their valuation. Most 'cheeky bids' arnt actually that cheeky at all with the common trend appearing to be offering approx 10-15% less than the asking price. Unless more buyers start playing more hard ball with bids then its hard to see where and when a major drop in prices will actually happen (that most of us want to see) The way it is going at the minute the continued decline in prices is much slower than anticipated.

This is the problem, sellers will not accept much more than 10% below asking whatever the state of the market. It shows what they are thinking, and if they are going to accept 20% below figure X, you have to wait for the asking price to drop to X-10% first.

The daft lending is still about, banks are still giving out 5.5x joint salary loans and the jobless or salary figures have not drastically changed. So people can get big loans if they have equity/deposits(more for the bank to repossess later on), the only real indicator of over priced values is the lack of sales. They are gradually changing and there are a few step changes coming. Fortunately they have not changed the banking rules to prevent another crisis, so it should happen at some point.

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This is the problem, sellers will not accept much more than 10% below asking whatever the state of the market. It shows what they are thinking, and if they are going to accept 20% below figure X, you have to wait for the asking price to drop to X-10% first.

The daft lending is still about, banks are still giving out 5.5x joint salary loans and the jobless or salary figures have not drastically changed. So people can get big loans if they have equity/deposits(more for the bank to repossess later on), the only real indicator of over priced values is the lack of sales. They are gradually changing and there are a few step changes coming. Fortunately they have not changed the banking rules to prevent another crisis, so it should happen at some point.

You cant seriously be suggesting that the banks are still lending the way they were. They have changed dramatically and for the most part that is even welcomed by me as their actions in the past, in my view caused the problems of run-away property and land prices. Yes banks will still lend to people who they assess will be able to pay it back. If you have never demonstrated the ability to save or to pay down your numerous credit cards then don't even apply. I assume you havnt attempted to look for a mortgage in the last 3 years. People who could easily (and wrongly) have been offered a mortgage for £250k 4 years ago would have difficulty obtaining a loan for £150k today. As I said a lot of this is just the implication of proper practice and is welcome. many say they have went too far. I say its their money they have the right to refuse to lend it if they want to.

Of course people with larger deposits are equity can borrow more. You know what: people with little deposits and little or no equity can borrow less. What a shocker.

Yes they have changed the banking rules (Bassel iii [the bolted horse amendments]), to prevent the reckless lending of the past. They always do after a crisis and in 15 years they will relax them again as they did in 2002.

However, I am more concerned with your use of the word 'fortunately'. Do you enjoy this? Would you welcome it again?

TDGTTS is full of houses that have dropped up to 40%. It appears week after week. The average house that sells now is 42% below peak price. Who cares how much it is below asking price. How do you know the asking price is 20% too high. What if it is 30% too high or, God forbid, was actually put on at the correct price, like you would if you were selling. We have sold 100's of houses over the last 18 months. I use that time frame as we stopped adjusting prices at that stage (apart from a few high end exceptions). The list price is the list price. 100's of people bought at that price. To achieve that the price must be correct in the first place. Sometimes the price is obviously correct.

A few people have come in and said they would only offer 10% (and in one occasional 20%)below the asking price. We kindly told them to approach a few of the second hand houses (some of which we had build years earlier) that were on the market at our price + 25% or 30%. A few (2, I think) returned and purchased from us, but the others couldn't. I believe if we had of priced the house at 10% higher and then allowed them 10% off they would have went with it.

But we decided 18 months ago to stop all that. The house had to be priced at the price we believed it would sell for and there is no point building in a bartering 10%.

We know there are people out there that believe that £x - 10% = a good deal. But we also know that most people are not fooled by that and are more interested in what £x is rather than the discount.

I know DFS base there whole marketing strategy around this. I have no idea if their sofas are cheaper or are good quality or even value. But wait a minute you can get 50%, then, then another 10% off that. That's DOUBLE the Discount (isn't it?). What a brilliant deal. And pay nothing for 12 months. Hay, what could possibly be wrong with that?

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The banks aren't lending what they used to. We went looking for a mortgage. We can't borrow the same amount that we were going to 4 years ago (sale fell through) even though my husband earns 25% more than he did then, we have a 40% deposit, we have no debts and I'm working now. My wages on a temporary contract aren't counted. In fact., I'm a dependent in the banks' eyes so I knock 10k off what he can borrow. Each of the children also knocks 10k off.

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I'm sure in some areas LPS values are reasonably accurate with what properties are "worth" now (which is indicated by the price the majority of the market are willing to pay for them!!). However, in the areas I'm familiar with - East and South Belfast, and where I know a considerable number of people who have bought/have been looking to buy property in the last 6-18 months, the LPS values are markedly lower (sometimes by upto 40%) than what prices are being marketed at, and not only what they are being marketed at - but what they are selling at. As a case in point - I looked at some houses around 12 months ago which were 30% above the LPS value - 4 bedroom houses in the Belmont area, and both were gone within 3 weeks of coming to market. This is at a time where banks ARE NOT lending like the used to. As I say - this is just my experience from the last 6-18 months and in a particular part of Belfast.

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I'm sure in some areas LPS values are reasonably accurate with what properties are "worth" now (which is indicated by the price the majority of the market are willing to pay for them!!). However, in the areas I'm familiar with - East and South Belfast, and where I know a considerable number of people who have bought/have been looking to buy property in the last 6-18 months, the LPS values are markedly lower (sometimes by upto 40%) than what prices are being marketed at, and not only what they are being marketed at - but what they are selling at. As a case in point - I looked at some houses around 12 months ago which were 30% above the LPS value - 4 bedroom houses in the Belmont area, and both were gone within 3 weeks of coming to market. This is at a time where banks ARE NOT lending like the used to. As I say - this is just my experience from the last 6-18 months and in a particular part of Belfast.

Thats what I'm seeing too :( Prices in S/SE Belfast are not near LPS Value for semi-detached properties.

Name wydsiwyrg: What You Don't See Is What You Really Get, correct? :huh:

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You cant seriously be suggesting that the banks are still lending the way they were.

Depends how you look at it, I agree they have tightened up, but its only tinkering at the edges. IMO the main issue is the mortgage to salary ratio and using joint salaries at 100% in the equation, it has been generally reduced from the silly highs of 10x self certified loans but 5.5x joint salary is still the equivalent of 8x main earner+1 x lower earner. Its a massive increase on the past brought about by low interest rates.

Of course people with larger deposits are equity can borrow more. You know what: people with little deposits and little or no equity can borrow less. What a shocker.

Why? their ability to repay is not significantly improved, they have just waited to build a deposit. They can't do that after they take out the mortgage, there is no safety margin if one of a couple loses a job, has a unexpected baby, decide to split up etc etc. A mortgage size should be based on salary not deposit, deposits only protect the bank from price drops.

However, I am more concerned with your use of the word 'fortunately'. Do you enjoy this? Would you welcome it again?

Yes I enjoy house prices dropping, even for my own home, it makes it easier to upgrade. I wrote the above comment because I am a bit cynical about Gov't and banking, I am waiting for them to find a nice little earner somewhere that means banks are stable but bailed out on a regular basis or something. Seems to be what they did with de-regulation, likely they will find something with re-regulation. Really I would like to see banks in trouble again, we need a proper correction of banks and the banking system, it hasn't happened yet and the same idiots are still in charge and still rewarding themselves disproportionately.

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I'm sure in some areas LPS values are reasonably accurate with what properties are "worth" now (which is indicated by the price the majority of the market are willing to pay for them!!). However, in the areas I'm familiar with - East and South Belfast, and where I know a considerable number of people who have bought/have been looking to buy property in the last 6-18 months, the LPS values are markedly lower (sometimes by upto 40%) than what prices are being marketed at, and not only what they are being marketed at - but what they are selling at. As a case in point - I looked at some houses around 12 months ago which were 30% above the LPS value - 4 bedroom houses in the Belmont area, and both were gone within 3 weeks of coming to market. This is at a time where banks ARE NOT lending like the used to. As I say - this is just my experience from the last 6-18 months and in a particular part of Belfast.

Quick buy a house before prices rocket again! Do you know what the houses actually sold for? When you say 'gone', what do youe mean?.. Under offer, Sold, demolished, contracts completed, taken by aliens, taken off the market?

Belmont was one of the areas I was looking to buy in before, and have monitored asking prices for about 2 years, I mainly see houses on the market for years not months unless they are close or below DCV. I have no way of knowing if a house is sold unless I phone up, then can you believe what you are told?

1.3x DCV sounds like a typical asking price for 1 year ago (30% above DCV). 1.1x is alot more common now.

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Depends how you look at it, I agree they have tightened up, but its only tinkering at the edges. IMO the main issue is the mortgage to salary ratio and using joint salaries at 100% in the equation, it has been generally reduced from the silly highs of 10x self certified loans but 5.5x joint salary is still the equivalent of 8x main earner+1 x lower earner. Its a massive increase on the past brought about by low interest rates.

Why? their ability to repay is not significantly improved, they have just waited to build a deposit. They can't do that after they take out the mortgage, there is no safety margin if one of a couple loses a job, has a unexpected baby, decide to split up etc etc. A mortgage size should be based on salary not deposit, deposits only protect the bank from price drops.

Yes I enjoy house prices dropping, even for my own home, it makes it easier to upgrade. I wrote the above comment because I am a bit cynical about Gov't and banking, I am waiting for them to find a nice little earner somewhere that means banks are stable but bailed out on a regular basis or something. Seems to be what they did with de-regulation, likely they will find something with re-regulation. Really I would like to see banks in trouble again, we need a proper correction of banks and the banking system, it hasn't happened yet and the same idiots are still in charge and still rewarding themselves disproportionately.

We will allays have different views on these kind of things. But I don't think anyone will agree with you that the banks are lending the way they were.

Income multipliers are a very crude assessment of what to lend. And that cuts both ways. If a bank thought X x income was a good guide, in some cases it may be too much. If that party has a poor credit history, multiple credit cards, never saved and no deposit, I would expect the bank to lower the X ratio to that party. On the other hand, a couple on lesser income, who showed that they were careful with their money, saved and didn't allow credit card(s) to become a loan, and had a good deposit, would in my view push the X ratio up. As you say the type and security of employment, and the duration they have been the job will also be a factor.

I don't agree with discrimating against the second income provider. The average income over here is £22,500 (levelled for both male and female). Average joint income should be £45,000 (although the CML puts this at £42k)Years ago it was expected that the wife give up her career on expecting the first child, in fact I believe it was compulsivary in the Health Service. Today, this is seldom the case.

If you have a high credit rating you will get 4.5 to 4.8x joint income

Medium Credit rating 4.5 single + second income.

If you have below average income this ratio will fall as the cost of living takes a higher proportion.

If you have a high income and high credit rating you will get higher but rarely above 5x joint income.

They place (correctly in my view) more emphases on your credit rating and ability to save.

If you have two parties, both on household income of £45k. One party has been able to save £30k, the other party has not. I as a banker would be more comfortable lending more money to the party that has been able to save a £30k on the same income as the other party. The other parties lifestyle is obviously more excessive and they Havant shown an ability to save.

I accept your views on wanting to see even cheaper and more affordable houses and respect it even more as you are a house owner.

However, wanting to see a further banking crisis is not a defensible position. There are many families and business out there that are been placed in extreme hardship by the actions of the banks. Business who where in no way connected to the stock market or property speculation have had there overhead squeezed to a state that they have difficulties in paying creditors and a chain reaction is taking place. Other business that are been forced under are leaving behind a mess of unpaid creditors who are also now in cash flow difficulties. All this whilst their core business and turnover is perhaps performing like it always has and on paper are profitable.

Wishing another crisis is madness and makes me worry about people in this forum.

I am all for criminal investigations into the banking system and bringing those who worked outside the law to court. There are soundings appearing down south on exactly this and I would agree that heads should roll. Buy looking for some of our banks to fall to the likes of Anglo is madness and if you want that, just to get lower house prices then lower prices will come, but buying one of them would be the lease of your worries.

You never will have proper regulation of the banking system. They are money lenders and will behave as money lenders always have. As long as a state has to borrow money from money lenders then the notion of that state regulating or controlling those same lenders is just nice talk to the people of that state.

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I'm sorry vi but 4.5-4.8 joint income lending really is sub-prime and would in my opinion be reckless.

As I said we will never agree on these matters and I leave the debate on what's affordable to others. Those are max ratios for people with an excellent credit rating. So a couple on £45k could be forwarded a loan of £216k.

Whilst they are on average income the Government figures show that the average advance is only £95k, which implies that the lenders rarely 'max out' the ratios.

Sub-prime lending, was lending where there was clearly no attempt to assess the borrowers ability to repay. It came about because firstly of the relaxations in 2002 and the ability of the lender to sell on the mortgage and therfore the risk of non-payment was somebody else problem (our pension companies no-doubt), However, properly assessed indivudals, who have a proven track record and possibly lending an advance of 4.8 x joint income (which from CML's own figures, rarely happens), is not in my opinion sub-prime. Offering this multiple and higher to any 'Tom Dick or Harry' without any assessment, on the other hand is.

Advertising the availability of 4.5 x income and actually giving it out is two different things.

I don't want to get into a discussion on what the 'proper' multiple should be as I accept we will never agree. But at the moment the banks are being accused of many things. Being reckless with their lending or engaging in 'sub-prime' lending is certainly not one of them.

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We will allays have different views on these kind of things. But I don't think anyone will agree with you that the banks are lending the way they were.

Income multipliers are a very crude assessment of what to lend. And that cuts both ways. If a bank thought X x income was a good guide, in some cases it may be too much. If that party has a poor credit history, multiple credit cards, never saved and no deposit, I would expect the bank to lower the X ratio to that party. On the other hand, a couple on lesser income, who showed that they were careful with their money, saved and didn't allow credit card(s) to become a loan, and had a good deposit, would in my view push the X ratio up. As you say the type and security of employment, and the duration they have been the job will also be a factor.

I don't agree with discrimating against the second income provider. The average income over here is £22,500 (levelled for both male and female). Average joint income should be £45,000 (although the CML puts this at £42k)Years ago it was expected that the wife give up her career on expecting the first child, in fact I believe it was compulsivary in the Health Service. Today, this is seldom the case.

If you have a high credit rating you will get 4.5 to 4.8x joint income

Medium Credit rating 4.5 single + second income.

If you have below average income this ratio will fall as the cost of living takes a higher proportion.

If you have a high income and high credit rating you will get higher but rarely above 5x joint income.

They place (correctly in my view) more emphases on your credit rating and ability to save.

If you have two parties, both on household income of £45k. One party has been able to save £30k, the other party has not. I as a banker would be more comfortable lending more money to the party that has been able to save a £30k on the same income as the other party. The other parties lifestyle is obviously more excessive and they Havant shown an ability to save.

I accept your views on wanting to see even cheaper and more affordable houses and respect it even more as you are a house owner.

However, wanting to see a further banking crisis is not a defensible position. There are many families and business out there that are been placed in extreme hardship by the actions of the banks. Business who where in no way connected to the stock market or property speculation have had there overhead squeezed to a state that they have difficulties in paying creditors and a chain reaction is taking place. Other business that are been forced under are leaving behind a mess of unpaid creditors who are also now in cash flow difficulties. All this whilst their core business and turnover is perhaps performing like it always has and on paper are profitable.

Wishing another crisis is madness and makes me worry about people in this forum.

I am all for criminal investigations into the banking system and bringing those who worked outside the law to court. There are soundings appearing down south on exactly this and I would agree that heads should roll. Buy looking for some of our banks to fall to the likes of Anglo is madness and if you want that, just to get lower house prices then lower prices will come, but buying one of them would be the lease of your worries.

You never will have proper regulation of the banking system. They are money lenders and will behave as money lenders always have. As long as a state has to borrow money from money lenders then the notion of that state regulating or controlling those same lenders is just nice talk to the people of that state.

nice to know you worry about us poor folks vi

i indeed worry about your goodself

after spending a lenghty period here you have still not grasped a few preeminent home truths

i think i speak for most on here when i say

we do not wish for another banking crisis as you assert

we are merely concerned with how,when,where the present one will end

rock on!

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nice to know you worry about us poor folks vi

i indeed worry about your goodself

after spending a lenghty period here you have still not grasped a few preeminent home truths

i think i speak for most on here when i say

we do not wish for another banking crisis as you assert

we are merely concerned with how,when,where the present one will end

rock on!

I will agree with you and am with you and most folk on that one, I was only replying to Ride-On, who expressed the desire to see another banking crisis.

So we agree on that.

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I don't agree with discrimating against the second income provider.

That isn't the point, its not about fairness, its about having something to fall back on, and economically it also about having spare money to spend on other businesses (ones that actually add value and pay tax). Increasing proportions of our earning have been going to the banks.

As we know it is lending that has increased that has allowed house prices to increase, sure the interest rates have remained low for a long time reducing the repayments, but the capital repayment is still much larger with a larger mortgage, and fundamentally monthly mortgage payments are 3x rents for a half decent house, before even looking at rates and maintenance. By allowing this through increased salary multiples we are just giving more money to one or 2 sectors, its just a step increase, developers like yourself can enjoy the profits during the growth but once all the extra borrowing has been taken up (by those willing) you are back to waiting for FTBs to complete chains. High house prices are only good during the growth phase, the rest of the time it just kills the rest of the economy.

Salary multiples maybe a little crude as a method of monitor or control, monthly payments would be better, both are still too high. In the past people had to wait maybe 5 years before buying anything significant after taking out a mortgage, now its more like 15 years.

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  • 141 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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