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Thanks To The Cuts, We'd All Be Better Off In Prison

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/oct/24/civil-service-spending-review-nhs-prisons

It was a unique week in Whitehall and civil servants are shattered. Last-minute changes to the spending review kept Treasury staff up most of Tuesday night. Officials and ministers have been working flat out for weeks. Now there is relief and catharsis. It has been exhausting carrying all these numbers around in our heads, anxious about what people will think when they see them. Now everyone knows our terrible secret and it feels good finally to share it.

The spending review is a hugely ambitious plan. But that is all it is. In Westminster, we are worried. We know it will be almost impossible to deliver many of the savings that have been promised. There is too much reliance on "efficiencies" becoming real cash savings. As every good civil servant knows, efficiencies are projections and promises – they don't yet exist in real life. There is a vain hope that police budget efficiencies will prevent thousands of policemen being sacked, NHS efficiencies will prevent thousands of nurses and doctors being sacked, local government efficiencies will paper over the widening cracks, and shared services will reduce the overall cost of government. Sadly, the more likely scenario is some savings and a lot of sackings. The most amusing target of all – 3,000 fewer prisoners by 2014 – has caused much laughter at the Ministry of Justice, especially when prisoner numbers are at a record high, having doubled over the last 15 years. It is a fantasy number, unless the Treasury has calculated that cuts to police officers and courts services will mean fewer criminals being caught and convicted.

Public services are interconnected. Without a proper strategy, cutting one just passes the costs on to others. Local authority cuts mean less housing and services. Together with huge welfare cuts, this puts pressure on the police to sort out the homeless and the hungry and increases demand on the NHS. Local authority cuts mean reduced social care services which means more pressure on the NHS. All this increases demand on the saddest social safety net of all. The one place where you always get free food and a bed – a prison.

Civil servants in key government departments will be instrumental in the attempt to realise these reforms and inefficiencies. Only they can really make them happen. But instead of motivating their civil servants with a powerful vision of the joint task ahead, ministers have told their staff that at least a third of them will no longer be required. This is a bold, selfless move that may prove to be a disastrous blunder. Sweden, cited as a successful example of fiscal consolidation, avoided big changes to central government because it knew the dangers of reducing and weakening the team at the centre.

Many departments have already started messy redundancy programmes that are consuming precious time and energy. This is a long process. As it progresses, civil servants will be distracted from their day jobs as they undergo lengthy assessments. When it is over, ministers will be frustrated at how much this affects their ability to do their job well. They won't have everything they want, as fast as they want, in the way they want. The people just won't be there to do it for them.

The government is desperate now to stop talking about cuts and set out plans for boosting economic growth. There is great expectation – as expanding the economy is the answer to all our problems. Currently, there is a problem with the plans for economic growth – there are no serious concrete plans for economic growth. This is a laissez-faire government that believes government should sit back and watch as the "big society" takes care of itself.

Amazing, really.

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they should have a redundancy lottery.

tommorrow...out, by 5pm.

that would motivate the rest to perform....so they dont get another lottery next month.

course, they could also cut salaries above average wage, 25K, by 50%. tommorrow.

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The Grauniad really has become the Daily Wail for the left hasn't it?

I enjoyed this bit;

As every good civil servant knows, efficiencies are projections and promises – they don't yet exist in real life

Sorry to burst that bubble, but as every good businessman knows, efficiencies are so normal they aren't worth talking about.

W@nkers.

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Thanks to the last government there is much more chance to end up in prison. How many new laws did Labour introduce? I've heard it was more than all the legislation from the last ice age to 1997.

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Taxy taxy.

100% guaranteed.

Saw a post on the scummers thread that made me think you are a moron, this post just confirmed it.

Do you believe that the state out of generosity has been taxing us at a less than optimum level for returns for the last few decades? and that now they can increase taxation to get more revenue? I do not as the state likes to interfere with our lives as much as possible but to do this it needs to raise revenue, they are already taxing us at the optimum level for returns and any increases in taxes will actually see a decrease in tax revenue, cannot be bothered to explain why but its pretty obvious to anyone who takes the time to think about it.

The game is over, the growth needed to get us out of this mess is just not going to materialise, the spending review is just a joke as it only addresses structual defecit and even then over the next 4 years, it assumes future growth willl take care of the rest LOL. Two words PEAK OIL.

The debts cannot be repaid so they won't its just a question of who is going to take the haircut and who is going to die.

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With all the cuts to welfare, public services, police, courts, prisons and increasing unemployment I think it inevitable to see an increasing level of crime which will increasingly go undetected and unpunished. Especially crime like theft and property crime. Which will push people will into taking the law into their own hands.

The wealthy haves will hire private security to protect their property and the have nots will get increasingly more desperate and aggressive.

The social fabric will be torn. Not a very appealing state of affairs to look forward to.

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With all the cuts to welfare, public services, police, courts, prisons and increasing unemployment I think it inevitable to see an increasing level of crime which will increasingly go undetected and unpunished.

The simplest way to reduce the crime rate is to eliminate the police who protect the criminals from their victims.

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The simplest way to reduce the crime rate is to eliminate the police who protect the criminals from their victims.

agree 100% the "outlaw" system employed in the states was very effective as a means of crime cotrol but there are no fees for lawyers in this system so it ain't gonna happen without a total collapse.

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We just don't have the money for so many police, lawyers, courts, prisons, etc.. Already there is a strong and growing anarcho-tyranny in Britain. There is a class of people who are increasingly immune from the law. Because the state just doesn't have the means to put them all in jail.

I'm talking a chav class with nothing, who can't afford lawyers, who doesn't have money to pay any fines.. who has no good job to lose, and realizes they have no chance to ever get a good job. So they get caught with public disorder or dealing drugs, or driving without a license. They get issued a hefty fine, which they never pay.. and the next night they are doing it again.

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Saw a post on the scummers thread that made me think you are a moron, this post just confirmed it.

Do you believe that the state out of generosity has been taxing us at a less than optimum level for returns for the last few decades? and that now they can increase taxation to get more revenue? I do not as the state likes to interfere with our lives as much as possible but to do this it needs to raise revenue, they are already taxing us at the optimum level for returns and any increases in taxes will actually see a decrease in tax revenue, cannot be bothered to explain why but its pretty obvious to anyone who takes the time to think about it.

The game is over, the growth needed to get us out of this mess is just not going to materialise, the spending review is just a joke as it only addresses structual defecit and even then over the next 4 years, it assumes future growth willl take care of the rest LOL. Two words PEAK OIL.

The debts cannot be repaid so they won't its just a question of who is going to take the haircut and who is going to die.

They found a huge deposit of oil in the Falklands that's gonna bring in 5 Billion in tax receipts - and thats just the first well!

It was buried under the Tory cuts blurb - so there was less negative press about the cuts!

In a few years ordinary Falkland Islanders will be buying 2nd homes in Mayfair!

Edited by erranta

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We just don't have the money for so many police, lawyers, courts, prisons, etc.. Already there is a strong and growing anarcho-tyranny in Britain. There is a class of people who are increasingly immune from the law. Because the state just doesn't have the means to put them all in jail.

I'm talking a chav class with nothing, who can't afford lawyers, who doesn't have money to pay any fines.. who has no good job to lose, and realizes they have no chance to ever get a good job. So they get caught with public disorder or dealing drugs, or driving without a license. They get issued a hefty fine, which they never pay.. and the next night they are doing it again.

When you have nothing to lose and the system doesnt provide you with a decent living then what else can you do?

Always makes me think of the lyrics to the song neighborhood threat.

Down where your paint is cracking

Look down your backstairs buddy

Somebodies living there and

He don't really feel the weather

And he don't share your pleasures

No, he don't share your pleasures

Did you see his eyes?

Did you see his crazy eyes?

And you're so surprised he doesn't run to catch your ash

Everybody always wants to kiss your trash

And you can't help him, no one can

And now that he knows

There's nothing to get

Will you still place your bet

Against the Neighbourhood Threat?

Somewhere a baby's feeding

Somewhere a mother's needing

Outside her boy is trying

But mostly he is crying

Did you see his eyes?

Did you see his crazy eyes?

And you're so surprised he doesn't run to catch your ash

Everybody always wants to kiss your trash

But you can't help him, no one can

And now that he knows

There's nothing to get

Not in this place

Not in your face

Will you still place your bet

Against the Neighbourhood Threat?

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I can think of a couple* of ways to achieve the "3000 fewer prisoners" target.

(* I'm thinking more Thunderdome than Pol Pot)

Think of the advertising revenues...or do you think this should be televised on the BBC?

On the other hand, the Pol Pot solution could be sponsored by Tescos child safe plastic shopping bags.

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When you have nothing to lose and the system doesnt provide you with a decent living then what else can you do?

Always makes me think of the lyrics to the song neighborhood threat.

Yes how control over people is usually done historically is by carrots. Middle class people with a good job, a big mortgage, nice lifestyle are very easy to control. All you do is threaten their job and they will do whatever you want. Even working class people used to be able to afford a family, just a more modest lifestyle. They were a little harder to control but still had a lot to lose.

As automation and offshoring and such has totally obliterated the number and quality of jobs available for millions and growing in number everyday they have nothing to lose. Whats happening is boomers are retiring from those old good jobs, and the companies are simply not replacing them. So in many major western cities now the unemployment and underemployment rate among 18-25 year olds has passed a shocking 50%.

They can be pacified for awhile by cheap booze and survivor on tv, but eventually they will get angry. Especially as their numbers keep growing as more and more kids finish school each year and don't have meaningful employment.

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  • 246 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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