Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
newbonic

House Crashes In Value From £86,000 To £1 In 3 Years, Btl Owner Furious...

Recommended Posts

In the Sunday Times main paper page 5, so can't link to it.

A two bed terrace was bought by a BTL investor in a Durham village (Holmside, looks like an ex pit house from the photo) for £87k in 2007. He spends £10k doing it up (kitchen + conservatory), and puts a tenant in it for £550 pcm.

In June 2010 he gets a valuation of £120k for it, although it doesn't say what the source of this valuation is.

In Sept 2010 he applies for a re-mortgage on the place hoping for a £140k valuation and, gulp, a valuer working for the Nationwide says it's not habitable, is damp, timbers may be affected by rot, and they want an engineers report on the roof. They assign it a nominal valuation of £1.

A Nationwide spokesman said "Valuers are instructed to give £1 valuations if its outside our criteria or if further reports are required". And "The property was values on a BTL basis, and as it was not habitable, we could not proceed."

BTL investor Paul Rooney, who owns 33 BTL properties (with his business partner Keith Widdringham) is furious: "We are being hammered against the wall because banks simply don't want to lend to us.'

He estimates his BTL portfolio is worth £3.1 million but said "We can't survive like this for ever, and if it keeps going we will have to sell properties, even if the market value is low.........".

Looks like FTBs may catch a break in Durham soon, but I wonder how leveraged the BTLers are?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

£550 a month is expensive for the area. I was paying £475 for a 3 bed new build when I lived in Durham. Sounds like a slumlord.

Edited by Mr. Miyagi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"We can't survive like this for ever, and if it keeps going we will have to sell properties, even if the market value is low.........".

:D hahaha. Brilliant. Sell up you fools!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BTL investor Paul Rooney, who owns 33 BTL properties (with his business partner Keith Widdringham) is furious: "We are being hammered against the wall because banks simply don't want to lend to us.'

He estimates his BTL portfolio is worth £3.1 million but said "We can't survive like this for ever, and if it keeps going we will have to sell properties, even if the market value is low.........".

Ah, diddums. Throwing toys out of the pram because the market has turned. And I doubt his portfolio is 'worth' 3.1 mill any more.

It never ceases to amaze me how BTL investors bleat about any loses they might incur - as if they're immune to the fluctuations of the market.

If I invest heavily in the stock market and it all goes t1ts up, am I going to blame banks for refusing to lend me any more or seek recompense?

Crash & burn, baby.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the Sunday Times main paper page 5, so can't link to it.

A two bed terrace was bought by a BTL investor in a Durham village (Holmside, looks like an ex pit house from the photo) for £87k in 2007. He spends £10k doing it up (kitchen + conservatory), and puts a tenant in it for £550 pcm.

In June 2010 he gets a valuation of £120k for it, although it doesn't say what the source of this valuation is.

In Sept 2010 he applies for a re-mortgage on the place hoping for a £140k valuation and, gulp, a valuer working for the Nationwide says it's not habitable, is damp, timbers may be affected by rot, and they want an engineers report on the roof. They assign it a nominal valuation of £1.

A Nationwide spokesman said "Valuers are instructed to give £1 valuations if its outside our criteria or if further reports are required". And "The property was values on a BTL basis, and as it was not habitable, we could not proceed."

BTL investor Paul Rooney, who owns 33 BTL properties (with his business partner Keith Widdringham) is furious: "We are being hammered against the wall because banks simply don't want to lend to us.'

He estimates his BTL portfolio is worth £3.1 million but said "We can't survive like this for ever, and if it keeps going we will have to sell properties, even if the market value is low.........".

Looks like FTBs may catch a break in Durham soon, but I wonder how leveraged the BTLers are?

yes, it is called the business you moron ....

another "businessman" who can survive only in booms ....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the Sunday Times main paper page 5, so can't link to it.

A two bed terrace was bought by a BTL investor in a Durham village (Holmside, looks like an ex pit house from the photo) for £87k in 2007. He spends £10k doing it up (kitchen + conservatory), and puts a tenant in it for £550 pcm.

In June 2010 he gets a valuation of £120k for it, although it doesn't say what the source of this valuation is.

In Sept 2010 he applies for a re-mortgage on the place hoping for a £140k valuation and, gulp, a valuer working for the Nationwide says it's not habitable, is damp, timbers may be affected by rot, and they want an engineers report on the roof. They assign it a nominal valuation of £1.

A Nationwide spokesman said "Valuers are instructed to give £1 valuations if its outside our criteria or if further reports are required". And "The property was values on a BTL basis, and as it was not habitable, we could not proceed."

BTL investor Paul Rooney, who owns 33 BTL properties (with his business partner Keith Widdringham) is furious: "We are being hammered against the wall because banks simply don't want to lend to us.'

He estimates his BTL portfolio is worth £3.1 million but said "We can't survive like this for ever, and if it keeps going we will have to sell properties, even if the market value is low.........".

Looks like FTBs may catch a break in Durham soon, but I wonder how leveraged the BTLers are?

If the BTL slumlord can't get a mortgage on it because it's uninhabitable, then I would imagine a first time buyer will also be unable to get a mortgage on it. So even if he tried to sell it at a low market value he may well struggle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He estimates his BTL portfolio is worth £3.1 million

Is this the estimated value only, or estimated value minus mortgage? I'd guess the former.

In Sept 2010 he applies for a re-mortgage on the place hoping for a £140k valuation and, gulp, a valuer working for the Nationwide says it's not habitable, is damp, timbers may be affected by rot, and they want an engineers report on the roof. They assign it a nominal valuation of £1.

So maybe the whole "portfolio" it's no longer worth £3.1m but £33?

"We can't survive like this for ever, and if it keeps going we will have to sell properties, even if the market value is low........."

Well, maybe he should ask taxpayers for a bailout? :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He estimates his BTL portfolio is worth £3.1 million but said "We can't survive like this for ever, and if it keeps going we will have to sell properties, even if the market value is low.........".

Yes, son. Failing businesses tend to fail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the BTL slumlord can't get a mortgage on it because it's uninhabitable, then I would imagine a first time buyer will also be unable to get a mortgage on it. So even if he tried to sell it at a low market value he may well struggle.

It seems clear that the £10k spent on cosmetic renovations should have been spent on damp proofing and other structural stuff. But had that been done, then I'd guestimate that 2 bed ex pit houses in a good state should really go for the £50-60k price range, in a sane market. Classic FTB territory. But the debt fuelled BTL boom has pushed them up to £80-90k + (I'll ignore his silly valuation expectation of £140k).

Although it looks like it all may be unravelling for highly leveraged BTLers before our eyes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems clear that the £10k spent on cosmetic renovations should have been spent on damp proofing and other structural stuff. But had that been done, then I'd guestimate that 2 bed ex pit houses in a good state should really go for the £50-60k price range, in a sane market. Classic FTB territory. But the debt fuelled BTL boom has pushed them up to £80-90k + (I'll ignore his silly valuation expectation of £140k).

Although it looks like it all may be unravelling for highly leveraged BTLers before our eyes.

He's trying to remortgage I would assume to get access to some of the capital gain from this property.

Is that because he wants to get the money to put down as a deposit on other houses? Or does he need the money to repair other houses or just cashflow?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's trying to remortgage I would assume to get access to some of the capital gain from this property.

Is that because he wants to get the money to put down as a deposit on other houses? Or does he need the money to repair other houses or just cashflow?

A new Range Rover is probably out soon.

Its all about presentation, you know. The punters see their spiv in a shiny new car and flock to him like flies on shit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems clear that the £10k spent on cosmetic renovations should have been spent on damp proofing and other structural stuff. But had that been done, then I'd guestimate that 2 bed ex pit houses in a good state should really go for the £50-60k price range, in a sane market. Classic FTB territory. But the debt fuelled BTL boom has pushed them up to £80-90k + (I'll ignore his silly valuation expectation of £140k).

Although it looks like it all may be unravelling for highly leveraged BTLers before our eyes.

The only Holmside that I can find in Durham is actually Blackhall Colliery where 2 bed terraces sell for 50-90K.

tim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's trying to remortgage I would assume to get access to some of the capital gain from this property.

Is that because he wants to get the money to put down as a deposit on other houses? Or does he need the money to repair other houses or just cashflow?

I guess he's the only one who can tell use that. But I assume that given it was bought at the top of the market in 2007 then there probably hasn't been any paper capital gain on the house.

And now the Nationwide don't want to play anymore.

The business model of BTLers who blow any paper gains on acquiring more properties+debt only works in rising markets. A rise in interest rates will hurt them very very hard, especially with downward pressure on housing benefits budgets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who the hell did the valuation in June of this year.....?

Bought 2007 £87k

Valuation June 2010 = £120k.......

+ £33k in the last 3 years :lol:

The astounding thing is though he wants / thinks the value should be £140k :blink:

I am actually lost for words....... :angry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only Holmside that I can find in Durham is actually Blackhall Colliery where 2 bed terraces sell for 50-90K.

tim

The ST describes it as 'The hamlet of Holmside, 7 miles north west of Durham' if that's any help (I've never been there anyway). It also says 'Rooney re-applied for the mortgage in September because a neighbouring property had just sold for £141,000 and he hoped to get an offer for a bigger loan'. I assume that it was at least a 3 bedder for that sort of money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BTL investor Paul Rooney, who owns 33 BTL properties (with his business partner Keith Widdringham) is furious: "We are being hammered against the wall because banks simply don't want to lend to us.'

He estimates his BTL portfolio is worth £3.1 million but said "We can't survive like this for ever, and if it keeps going we will have to sell properties, even if the market value is low.........".

Your 'business' can only survive on constant borrowing?.

post-19739-011718900 1287921281_thumb.jpg

post-19739-011718900 1287921281_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The ST describes it as 'The hamlet of Holmside, 7 miles north west of Durham' if that's any help (I've never been there anyway). It also says 'Rooney re-applied for the mortgage in September because a neighbouring property had just sold for £141,000 and he hoped to get an offer for a bigger loan'. I assume that it was at least a 3 bedder for that sort of money.

Oh that's near where my friend lives!

OK,

Currently one 2 bed terrace for sale. Going to auction guided at 75K.

tim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your 'business' can only survive on constant borrowing?.

Fantastic pic there!!!

The sooner this type of business model is extinguished, the better for UK Ltd.

Get property out of the hands of those who are using it to make themselves rich at the expense of others, and into the hands of young adults to live in long term and build stable families.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"We can't survive like this for ever, and if it keeps going we will have to sell properties, even if the market value is low.........".

:D hahaha. Brilliant. Sell up you fools!

Scummiest of the scum expect their tennants to live in/pay full whack (+heat) damp, knackered house!

It's time rent controls, decent rental laws and inspectors are brought back!

Edited by erranta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the Sunday Times main paper page 5, so can't link to it.

A two bed terrace was bought by a BTL investor bank in a Durham village (Holmside, looks like an ex pit house from the photo) for £87k in 2007. He spends £10k doing it up (kitchen + conservatory), and puts a tenant in it for £550 pcm.

In June 2010 he gets a valuation of £120k for it, although it doesn't say what the source of this valuation is.

In Sept 2010 he applies for a re-mortgage on the place hoping for a £140k valuation and, gulp, a valuer working for the Nationwide says it's not habitable, is damp, timbers may be affected by rot, and they want an engineers report on the roof. They assign it a nominal valuation of £1.

A Nationwide spokesman said "Valuers are instructed to give £1 valuations if its outside our criteria or if further reports are required". And "The property was values on a BTL basis, and as it was not habitable, we could not proceed."

BTL investor Paul Rooney, who owns 33 BTL properties (with his business partner Keith Widdringham) is furious: "We are being hammered against the wall because banks simply don't want to lend to us idiots like us.'

He estimates his banks BTL portfolio is worth £3.1 million but said "We can't survive like this for ever, and if it keeps going we will have to sell properties, even if the market value is low below our greedy expectations.........".

Looks like FTBs may catch a break in Durham soon, but I wonder how leveraged the BTLers are?

Corrected for some obvious errors.

What is concerning is that banks are sitting on significant potential losses, and that means our money is going to go on bailing out these pretender 'businessmen'. You and I will pay for it all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scummiest of the scum expect their tennants to live in/pay full whack (+heat) damp, knackered house!

It's time rent controls, decent rental laws and inspectors are brought back!

If the assessment comes back that the house is not fit for habitation, then he and his partner should go to jail. What if the place had collapsed and killed a family. He has legal obligations to ensure the place is safe. And the prat comes on and looks for sympathy. This is the sort of self centred greedy and callous attitude that makes this country bad. Lock the pr*cks up and fine their 'business' too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who the hell did the valuation in June of this year.....?

Bought 2007 £87k

Valuation June 2010 = £120k.......

+ £33k in the last 3 years :lol:

The astounding thing is though he wants / thinks the value should be £140k :blink:

I am actually lost for words....... :angry:

Probably somebody who does not really understand valuation but has read that gross rental yields on BTL are about 5%. Which they are if the property is sound, the rent not excessive and the location such that it should be easy to let. None of which appear to be the case here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The ST describes it as 'The hamlet of Holmside, 7 miles north west of Durham' if that's any help (I've never been there anyway). It also says 'Rooney re-applied for the mortgage in September because a neighbouring property had just sold for £141,000 and he hoped to get an offer for a bigger loan'. I assume that it was at least a 3 bedder for that sort of money.

£140,000 > £1

Average wage in middlesborough and teeside district = 16,000 p.a

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Holmside is not too far from me, it's this place

Google Maps

One of those few houses by the side of the road type places. No facilities and nothing to do. You can see pretty much everything in the streetview pic. Those little terraces can't be worth more than 80k surely. Just noticed there are 5 for sale signs in the streetview picture, out of about 25 houses so can't be too popular.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 145 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.