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Dave Beans

Practical Solutions To Solve Long-Term Unemployment

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..No doubt someone will suggest a bullet to the back of the head, or some other obnoxious comment...but seriously, how can be practically help those who are long-term unemployed? The "Scummers" thread comes up with all sorts of issues, but it doesn't come up with any solutions - only mudslinging between posters. Ppl say its a "cultural" thing..yes, in some cases it is..grandfather-son-grandchild all have been unemployed..how can we break this chain?

In April 2011, a new "welfare to work" scheme will be introduce, to try and "eradicate" long term unemployment...what should this scheme consist of? Literacy programs? Work Experience schemes? Motivational Seminars?

The New Deal has been a bit of a disaster...after 18 months, you go on a work experience scheme for three months (in a lot of cases ppl working in a charity shop), then at the end of it, you sign back..Some ppl have been repeating this cycle since its introduction over ten years ago...

Perhaps the issue is unsolvable? Perhaps there isn't really much we can do to save these ppl?

I think you only really see the flaws of the benefits system, only once you've been on it, and have come out of it the other side...

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I think a big problem is mindset - mindset of those who believe they have no hope of a job, mindset of many public sector office worker types who believe they have been working hard and contributing something important to the country.

Then there are those with chronic illnesses - places like the Welsh Valleys. Huge problems of social, economic and cultural issues that are almost impossible to understand let alone solve.

I think a huge problem in the UK is that everything is London focussed. All road and rail and air links seemingly leading to London. We need to address the geographical problem at the same time as addressing those who are economically inactive.

We have big problems but we lack the big idea.

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Reciprocal trade agreements with nations who wish to trade with us.

And to stop un/semi skilled immigration, whilst reversing most immigration from the last 15 years.

..would that include pulling out of the EU?

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Nothing, we are entrenched in this mindset of buying cheaper goods, even if that means outsourcing the manufacture to Asia.

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We have to understand that there are more people than jobs. Yet they still let more and more people come here, at the same time as upping the retirement age. The cost of housing and many other things like travel and energy make it almost immpossible for many ordinary familys to exist without two wages. So women instead of giving up a job when they have children keep the jobs and do not free them for the next gerneration. Also the last time the working week was cut was in 1980 , since then we have had 30 years of technology and outsourcing but still no more cut's in the working week.

Yes there are the lazy who do not want to work , but there are also many who want to work but can not find a job. Deminising the unemployed like IDS does is not going to address the problem.

Solutions stop immigration, lower the retirment age, transfer personnel allowances that get unused by stay at home mums to their partner's, cut the working week.

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Reciprocal trade agreements with nations who wish to trade with us.

And to stop un/semi skilled immigration, whilst reversing most immigration from the last 15 years.

I'd rather employ somebody that can't write English, to one that can't write Farsi, or Serbian! :blink:;)

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..would that include pulling out of the EU?

No, that is the point of the EU - to provide a level playing field for supply of services, goods, labour, and capital. For all the complaints about the political process, the destruction of internal barriers is good and necessary amongst democratic states with similar laws.

The bankers have been doing their best to ****** this process up, but the basic imbalance is with Asia - their labour is too cheap and they don't have a similar rule of law.

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No, that is the point of the EU - to provide a level playing field for supply of services, goods, labour, and capital. For all the complaints about the political process, the destruction of internal barriers is good and necessary amongst democratic states with similar laws.

The bankers have been doing their best to ****** this process up, but the basic imbalance is with Asia - their labour is too cheap and they don't have a similar rule of law.

..but what about all the semi-skilled / unskilled economic migrants that come from eastern Europe?

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..but what about all the semi-skilled / unskilled economic migrants that come from eastern Europe?

That was a one-off because the UK was the only major country not to phase in the free-movement rules after 10 new countries joined. If Germany, France etc had allowed citizens from new member states to work freely from day one, or if Britain hadn't then we wouldn't have seen mass migration here.

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..but what about all the semi-skilled / unskilled economic migrants that come from eastern Europe?

That's the 'level playing field' he's talking about.

'Leveling the playing field' is great if you're at the bottom of the heap, but not so great if you're at the top... hence Britons who might previously have expected to be able to live a half-decent life in an unskilled or low-skilled job now have to compete with immigrants from poor countries who are happy to live six to a room.

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That was a one-off because the UK was the only major country not to phase in the free-movement rules after 10 new countries joined. If Germany, France etc had allowed citizens from new member states to work freely from day one, or if Britain hadn't then we wouldn't have seen mass migration here.

That was a great move that one lol, they were only expecting 30,000 my ar** !!!

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I think a big problem is mindset - mindset of those who believe they have no hope of a job, mindset of many public sector office worker types who believe they have been working hard and contributing something important to the country.

Then there are those with chronic illnesses - places like the Welsh Valleys. Huge problems of social, economic and cultural issues that are almost impossible to understand let alone solve.

why do they have chronic illness?

A few decades ago,these very same people would have been down coalmines breathing in noxious fumes,and not said a dickibird.

I suggest it is partly psychosomatic,and given the opportunity to make stuff again in this area,they would jump at the chance.

the blame lies fairly and squarely with the government,for getting too big and too interfering.

it is they who have created vast enclaves of welfare junkies in these regions....partly as a way of poncing off of everybody else for political dogma.The welsh/scottis/northern irish/north east need to start making things again rather than paper-shuffling.

...and it needs to be done by tax(and regulatory) breaks,not EU handouts from the money that has already been generated(and redistributed from on high),by the profitable bits of the UK.

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..No doubt someone will suggest a bullet to the back of the head, or some other obnoxious comment...but seriously, how can be practically help those who are long-term unemployed? The "Scummers" thread comes up with all sorts of issues, but it doesn't come up with any solutions - only mudslinging between posters. Ppl say its a "cultural" thing..yes, in some cases it is..grandfather-son-grandchild all have been unemployed..how can we break this chain?

In April 2011, a new "welfare to work" scheme will be introduce, to try and "eradicate" long term unemployment...what should this scheme consist of? Literacy programs? Work Experience schemes? Motivational Seminars?

The New Deal has been a bit of a disaster...after 18 months, you go on a work experience scheme for three months (in a lot of cases ppl working in a charity shop), then at the end of it, you sign back..Some ppl have been repeating this cycle since its introduction over ten years ago...

Perhaps the issue is unsolvable? Perhaps there isn't really much we can do to save these ppl?

I think you only really see the flaws of the benefits system, only once you've been on it, and have come out of it the other side...

Reducing unemployment is easy in principle

A.) Make sure there is enough work for everyone who is capable of doing it

B.) Make sure that the amount that is paid to the average family worker is enough to support a roof over the head of the average family size. This can be achieved either by making their salary big enough to cope with living costs or it can be achieved by controlling living costs such that salaries are not having to chase those living costs.

If the above is the case, then it become very easy to morally justify not supporting those who will not work through choice.

If, on the other hand, there is not enough work for everyone and/or there is an unsustainable gap between what is being paid and the cost of living then one of two outcomes will pertian.

Either...

1) The one's who are working subsidise the income of those who are not via redistributive taxation

Or...

2) The one's who are working build very big fences and buy a big gun/big dog

Looks like we are headed for outcome (2)

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..would that include pulling out of the EU?

The EU should only be used for free trade of goods as it was initially intended ... not free movement of labour that undercuts the natives.

And certainly not to govern us or create business stifling bureaucracy.

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The EU should only be used for free trade of goods as it was initially intended ... not free movement of labour that undercuts the natives.

And certainly not to govern us or create business stifling bureaucracy.

I take it though, that that policy would damage British workers rights wanting to work in the EU, although I suppose we can't have it both ways... :blink:

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There are many things we could do to help this situation:

1)Reduce the cost of labour. Lower labour costs mean more jobs.

To do this we need to get rid of the "tax wedge" that employers have to pay to employ someone. that means cutting income tax, employers national insurance and employees national insurance to almost zero for those on low wages.

2)Complete free trade with the world, this will lower the cost of living for everyone in the country - lower costs means more disposable income to spend on other things - which leads to a virtuous circle of economic growth.

3)A universal benefit to prevent people from starving/freezing to death and a flat marginal rate of tax to keep the incentive to work the same for everyone, no matter how much they earn. However the net rate of tax will be higher for those on higher incomes.

4) zero rate Corporation tax (obviously can't do this straight away). Corporation tax forces down wages, and pushes up prices - neither of these are good things for the average person.

5) get rid of VAT as soon as possible - a very regressive tax that only serves to make things more expensive than they should be.

6) a wholesale withdrawal of state monopolies/apparatus on education/health/universities/pensions etc. I have no objection to the state providing these services - but it should have to do so in a level playing field with others. Competition between providers will push up quality and lower costs, just like it does with everything else.

Immigration is a red herring - as long as they come here to work they are making us all better off, by producing goods and services for us to use that we would not otherwise have.

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Full employment is the Holy Grail. It's fantasy, a folly. We need less production and less consumption. The quest for full employment is part of the HPI equation.

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Immigration is a red herring - as long as they come here to work they are making us all better off, by producing goods and services for us to use that we would not otherwise have.

Immigration is a red herring in the medium term, but if you're unemployed until then, you're going to have trouble getting back into the workforce.

It isn't the government's role to increase the sum total of human economic happiness by increasing the number of humans; the governments role is to increase the economic happiness.

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..No doubt someone will suggest a bullet to the back of the head, or some other obnoxious comment...

The Soviets solved the problem effectively:

  1. Parasitism became a criminal offence

  2. There was no loss of benefits/housing

  3. Jobs were found for the sick and injured that were appropriate to their limitations

  4. Organisations benefited from employing people (e.g. a negative tax on employment)

  5. Problem families were moved to special estates next to the police station for informal but effective monitoring

  6. Employers and people moved to where each other were

I detested the Soviet regime, but they got this bit sorted out better than we do. For each of the above we do the opposite in the UK.

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The job centre is a place people go every fortnight to sign on.

Instead, have them go once a month, the other day have them attend a CV class, issue them with a USB type stick to upload their CV onto. Then when they go every fortnight they can insert the stick into the job point. They could the instantly send their CV via the machine for the job.

The money you get is not really enough to live on.

You have to be very careful with your money so that you can eat and the utilities don't get cut off.

Make it easier for people to apply for jobs, by sending letters on their behalf (pay for the stamps), and by being able to instantly send a CV on the job point. Allow them to phone employers from the job centre.

Not much of a change to the system, but far more efficient.

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Start from where they help to create peoples unemployment.

A first step would be to stop vested interests lobbying/paying MPs and other politicians to favour their special interests.

If they want to pay for representation they can form and fund their own VI parties and issue VI manifestos and campaign for votes as VIs. Such parties to be properly named such as Party for VI *** etc.

Then make election manifesto promises binding so that peoples votes actually count and governments can't default on governance.

Make sure that election vote counting is honest.

Penalties for telling lies and making misleading statements in Parliament.

Small steps towards a level of democracy and in time perhaps less unemployment.

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In countries with low wages, there is still often high unemployment / underemployment.

There probably aren't enough jobs in the world. Only a small % of people who used to work in agriculture are still needed. Same for manufacturing,

A small % of people are highly employable, others are good, others are weak, but still useful. A growing proportion are a liability to an employer.

Maybe more allotments needed, I really don't know. Something to do outdoors, allow selling of produce.

What happens in 100/200 years? Personal care robots, auto drive trucks, single global economy with EVERY kind of job outsourced or automated.

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  • 259 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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