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Charity Is Killing The Economy

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Like most people I love my mother dearly. She is a model citizen of the UK. She has worked hard throughout her life bringing up her children, working part-time when we were young and then full-time once we had all flown the nest. During her evenings she was a committed member of her community, giving her time to the Girl Guides as a District Commissioner and spending time making cakes and gossiping with the other like-minded ladies of our neighbourhood at the local Women's Institute.

My mother has now since "retired" from her job and is now volunteering at the local hospital one day a week to "help out" once more to her community. She, however is not alone. There are now some 800 volunteers at our local hospital providing services from feeding the ill, to showing visitors around the vast complex that is the QA Hospital in Cosham, Portsmouth. Our local village and larger town is full of charity shops which receive beneficial rates in rent and also free goods as well as free labour in the form of retired persons such as my mother. How on earth is a commercial business going to compete with this?

Am I wrong in thinking that my mother, all though selfless in her time and thoughts for her wider community, is in fact doing the young and her community harm. She is offering her time free as she is now in receipt of a generous pension and can afford to do so. How can a young person with no experience compete in getting a job when there are so many retired people willing to give their time up for free and with considerably more life experience? How can high street businesses survive against charities which have all of their costs provided for?

Should we banish charity in this country for the next term of parliament? Will this help the deficit? Or am I just being selfish?

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Your mother is doing a wonderful job - let her be. Be proud.

Many people get admitted to hospital each year who have no-one to visit them, no one to talk to and, often nowadays, no one to feed them or get them a drink. Until you see it with your own eyes you cannot believe how terrible it can be.

A great many nurses - not all - refuse to do the above as they do not consider it part of nursing.

If it was not for people like your Mum lots of people would go unfed and thirsty.

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Like most people I love my mother dearly. She is a model citizen of the UK. She has worked hard throughout her life bringing up her children, working part-time when we were young and then full-time once we had all flown the nest. During her evenings she was a committed member of her community, giving her time to the Girl Guides as a District Commissioner and spending time making cakes and gossiping with the other like-minded ladies of our neighbourhood at the local Women's Institute.

My mother has now since "retired" from her job and is now volunteering at the local hospital one day a week to "help out" once more to her community. She, however is not alone. There are now some 800 volunteers at our local hospital providing services from feeding the ill, to showing visitors around the vast complex that is the QA Hospital in Cosham, Portsmouth. Our local village and larger town is full of charity shops which receive beneficial rates in rent and also free goods as well as free labour in the form of retired persons such as my mother. How on earth is a commercial business going to compete with this?

Am I wrong in thinking that my mother, all though selfless in her time and thoughts for her wider community, is in fact doing the young and her community harm. She is offering her time free as she is now in receipt of a generous pension and can afford to do so. How can a young person with no experience compete in getting a job when there are so many retired people willing to give their time up for free and with considerably more life experience? How can high street businesses survive against charities which have all of their costs provided for?

Should we banish charity in this country for the next term of parliament? Will this help the deficit? Or am I just being selfish?

Sorry is this for real?

Whilst I am looking for a job I am volunteering in a charity shop, its unpaid because there are very very few Charity shops that actually have salaried positions, the shop where I work has only one person who actually gets paid and thats the area manager, so even if I gave up my job for a young person they would not get a salary - so how can I possibly be taking a job from a young person.

And as for beneficial rates and rents dont make me laugh, when I worked in one in Clapham it had to close down becauase the business rates that lambeth demanded were more than the shop actually took

I would like to see young volunteers, they wont get paid but can put the experience on their CV BUT THEY DONT WANT TO DO IT, we have a notice on our window asking for volunteers, but we never get a young person wanting to work for us, we are opposite a job centre and see young people going in and out all the time, but they never cross the road and ask us for work.

It seems that its only the middleaged and elderly who will give up their time, we have one lady who can barely walk but she is with us 5 days a week, whilst the young ones sit on their backsidesand do nowt

Edited by Madamvice

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I think you're just being stupid but this is the new information age. You have things out of all proportion. Don't read the papers or this website and get back to your life. Life will continue, as it always has, and people should be free to do what they want. If you don't like the system, you have to change the system, not what's going on in it. I think this will take about ten years to come to fruition!

How can a young person with no experience compete in getting a job when there are so many retired people willing to give their time up for free and with considerably more life experience? How can high street businesses survive against charities which have all of their costs provided for?

Should we banish charity in this country for the next term of parliament? Will this help the deficit? Or am I just being selfish?

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You don't get it either. Perhaps you should go and speak to some of those people and find out what they think about your job, their prospects, buying a house, having a family, pensions. Then you'll get the message.

I would like to see young volunteers, they wont get paid but can put the experience on their CV BUT THEY DONT WANT TO IT, we have a notice on our window asking for volunteers, but we never get a young person wanting to work for us, we are opposite a job centre and see young people going in and out all the time, but they never cross the road and ask us for work.

Edited by fallingbuzzard

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Sorry is this for real?

Whilst I am looking for a job I am volunteering in a charity shop, its unpaid because there are very very few Charity shops that actually have salaried positions, the shop where I work has only one person who actually gets paid and thats the area manager, so even if I gave up my job for a young person they would not get a salary - so how can I possibly be taking a job from a young person.

The benefits system is much more of a problem. If you're volunteering, they'll deem you not available for work, so you're not a jobseeker. So it's something you can only do if you don't need the benefits - i.e. you have a job, or private means.

And as for beneficial rates and rents dont make me laugh, when I worked in one in Clapham it had to close down becauase the business rates that lambeth demanded were more than the shop actually took

Er, doesn't compute. Aren't charities in Clapham exempt from rates, as they are elsewhere?

I would like to see young volunteers, they wont get paid but can put the experience on their CV BUT THEY DONT WANT TO DO IT, we have a notice on our window asking for volunteers, but we never get a young person wanting to work for us, we are opposite a job centre and see young people going in and out all the time, but they never cross the road and ask us for work.

It seems that its only the middleaged and elderly who will give up their time, we have one lady who can barely walk but she is with us 5 days a week, whilst the young ones sit on their backsidesand do nowt

It's the older folks who have the means to spend time in unpaid work! They'd have to change the benefits rules to open it to young adults.

Edited by porca misèria

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You don't get it either. Perhaps you should go and speak to some of those people and find out what they think about your job, their prospects, buying a house, having a family, pensions. Then you'll get the message.

No you dont get it, we dont get young people coming in and asking to work, the jobs are not salaried, they will not get paid, however if they want to get a paid job say in a shop, then a volunteer job with experience in till work, customer service stock control and housekeeping, will look good on their CV and actually help their prospects,

In most charity shops only the managers get paid, I actually applied for a job as a manager in another charity shop at min wage, they had 300 applicants and the person

who got the job used to be a branch manager for woolworths with over 20 years retail experience.( and no it wasnt me)

Edited by Madamvice

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The benefits system is much more of a problem. If you're volunteering, they'll deem you not available for work, so you're not a jobseeker. So it's something you can only do if you don't need the benefits - i.e. you have a job, or private means.

Er, doesn't compute. Aren't charities in Clapham exempt from rates, as they are elsewhere?

It's the older folks who have the means to spend time in unpaid work! They'd have to change the benefits rules to open it to young adults.

See below

[b]How volunteering affects your benefits

Volunteering shouldn’t affect your right to benefits, as long as the only money you receive is to cover your volunteering expenses, such as travel from home to the volunteering location.There are no limits on the amount of time you can volunteer for as long as you continue to meet the conditions of the benefit or tax credit you are receiving.[/b]

I know this because I am on JSA myself

INo they are not exempt from rates at least ours wasnt - the big boys like save the children and BHF may get special deals but ours was a small animal charity- we had to move out just before Christmas last year

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The benefits system is much more of a problem. If you're volunteering, they'll deem you not available for work, so you're not a jobseeker. So it's something you can only do if you don't need the benefits - i.e. you have a job, or private means.

Err, I'm sorry to say, but that's wrong. As long as you declare to the JC that you are working for a charity / non profit making org (and not a business that masquerades as a "charity")...they check them out, and if they're OK, then you can work there. However, it must not interrupt your jobsearch activities, and you should be able to give the voluntary post up (if it conflicts with a job opportunity) immediately...

The New Deal scheme (via the JC) uses charities all the time, which places unemployed ppl into charities / non profits or into businesses...

I volunteer for a foodbank, and give them their due, the vast majority of volunteers are boomers. Without their help, hundreds if not thousands of ppl would go hungry.

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Err, I'm sorry to say, but that's wrong. As long as you declare to the JC that you are working for a charity / non profit making org (and not a business that masquerades as a "charity")...they check them out, and if they're OK, then you can work there. However, it must not interrupt your jobsearch activities, and you should be able to give the voluntary post up (if it conflicts with a job opportunity) immediately...

The New Deal scheme (via the JC) uses charities all the time, which places unemployed ppl into charities / non profits or into businesses...

I volunteer for a foodbank, and give them their due, the vast majority of volunteers are boomers. Without their help, hundreds if not thousands of ppl would go hungry.

Hmmm ... that's not what they told me when I tried to sign on back in 2002, when I was making nothing and my savings had run out. The story was that I had to be available for work, and that any voluntary work was incompatible with that, even if I could quit without notice.

Were they wrong, or have the rules changed since then?

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Hmmm ... that's not what they told me when I tried to sign on back in 2002, when I was making nothing and my savings had run out. The story was that I had to be available for work, and that any voluntary work was incompatible with that, even if I could quit without notice.

Were they wrong, or have the rules changed since then?

Most likely...

Checking Citizen's Advice, they interpret it as...

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/life/benefits/benefits_for_people_looking_for_work.htm#available_for_work_and_actively_seeking_work

You must be available for work to get Jobseeker's Allowance. This means that you must usually be able to start a job immediately. However, this is different if you look after someone or are doing voluntary work. If you have caring responsibilities or are doing voluntary work, you have to be available to start a job with one week’s notice but you must be available for a job interview within 48 hours’ notice. These times are longer if you're responsible for the care of a child under 16.

I was told in the JC that you have to be available immediately...(voluntary or no voluntary)...

Edited by Dave Beans

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See below

[b]How volunteering affects your benefits

Volunteering shouldn’t affect your right to benefits, as long as the only money you receive is to cover your volunteering expenses, such as travel from home to the volunteering location.There are no limits on the amount of time you can volunteer for as long as you continue to meet the conditions of the benefit or tax credit you are receiving.[/b]

I know this because I am on JSA myself

INo they are not exempt from rates at least ours wasnt - the big boys like save the children and BHF may get special deals but ours was a small animal charity- we had to move out just before Christmas last year

Charity shops benefit from huge concessions over shops run as businesses. Automatic rates reduction of 80% and even more at the local authorities' discretion - bad for them, in that case, be more lucrative for the council if it was empty, incidentally.

That's the financial there's also the things like various regulations being less zealously, or not at all, enforced by the authorities.

They will pay market rents, generally, and some of the more prominent charity shops probably have been guilty of forcing rents, in the more off pitch locations, up for small businesses.

I've often heard landlords say things like 'we've got a florist interested in that corner unit but we'll give it to a charity shop because they'll pay more.' When a florist would have been much more beneficial to the overall tenant mix.

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How on earth is a commercial business going to compete with this?

Easily, you simply register a charity and open up a junk shop, like all of them.

Pay the managers money (after all, they collect the readies!) and then your CEO and friends skim big pensions plus juicy wages and fat bonusses. Keep pumping out the beggings ads that ensure that uninformed, well-meaning people will keep on giving you time and money, whilst you in return provide the warm fuzzy feeling for your generous and righteous customers.

Charities are big business, and you'd be surprised of how many of them nowadays get paid directly by the taxpayer (in order to help push through certain policies...) and so don't bother to even open a tat shop: http://www.devilskitchen.me.uk/search/label/fake%20charities

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Easily, you simply register a charity and open up a junk shop, like all of them.

Pay the managers money (after all, they collect the readies!) and then your CEO and friends skim big pensions plus juicy wages and fat bonusses. Keep pumping out the beggings ads that ensure that uninformed, well-meaning people will keep on giving you time and money, whilst you in return provide the warm fuzzy feeling for your generous and righteous customers.

Charities are big business, and you'd be surprised of how many of them nowadays get paid directly by the taxpayer (in order to help push through certain policies...) and so don't bother to even open a tat shop: http://www.devilskitchen.me.uk/search/label/fake%20charities

Don't forget to set aside money for plenty of skips out the back. You'll need them to put all the books misguided people will donate to you. You don't want punters spending 50p on a paperback book instead of £5 on one of your ethnic woven sustainable shopping bags you've just had air-freighted in from China.

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Hmmm ... that's not what they told me when I tried to sign on back in 2002, when I was making nothing and my savings had run out. The story was that I had to be available for work, and that any voluntary work was incompatible with that, even if I could quit without notice.

Yes, you have to spend you entire time being ritually humiliated by the JobCentre!

Filling in forms, and attending JobClubs and the like!

I remember it myself! :huh:

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Good thought provoking post. I think this is part of the general trend me and some others have been highlighting here that there just isn't enough work to go around. A very different world than the one your mother grew up in and worked in.

Many major western cities now the unemployment and underemployment rate among 18-25 year olds has passed 50%.

In any sane society the volunteer work your mother is doing should be celebrated and encouraged.. and ways found so young people can have some real money and have their own home, work towards their own pension, have some real disposable income. The work she is doing adds great value to the community, fosters a sense of community, gives her something useful to do to give purpose to her life, gets her out and socializing.

The problem isn't her contribution to her community, being a good citizen.. I think the problem is the society which hasn't adapted to the new realities.

Edited by aa3

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If the cost of living came down, there wouldn't need to have a population in full employment in full time work.

I.e. deflation would help us. Decrease the money supply.

Imagine a society where we could work a few days work, and THAT WOULD BE MORE THAN ENOUGH. The rest of the time can be spent doing what you want: charity work, being creative, or being lazy.

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If the cost of living came down, there wouldn't need to have a population in full employment in full time work.

I.e. deflation would help us. Decrease the money supply.

Imagine a society where we could work a few days work, and THAT WOULD BE MORE THAN ENOUGH. The rest of the time can be spent doing what you want: charity work, being creative, or being lazy.

Over a century ago our country moved from the 80 hour work week, down to the 60 hour work week. Half a century ago we moved from the industrial standard of the 60 hour work week, down to the 40 hour standard. Along with paid retirement, disability insurance, mandatory vacation time, statuatory holidays etc..

Each step it seemed impossible that the society could still function without everyone working so many hours. I think the next logical step is the 32 hour work week. Take an extra day off a week.

Deflation is one way to make it possible. People in the depression era were quite upset to see their hours cut from 60-40 per week, but prices had fallen more than that so actually they were still ahead. It still took the force of law to stop some from trying to get ahead by working more though.

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There's no harm in people giving their time free to do things that otherwise wouldn't be done or wouldn't be economically viable.

The problem now is that local authorities (in particular) are looking at replacing paid staff with volunteers. Private sector firms are doing thus too, in a different way, by getting people to work for nothing to prove they're worthy of a paid job. It's difficult to know where to put the dividing line. For instance, to take a ridiculous example, if the rail operators decided to introduce a scheme for volunteer train drivers, they'd be inundated with people who just want to have a go at driving trains - in fact they could probably charge people more to drive trains than just to travel on them!

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Imagine if everybody gave their time, resources and effort for free. No rents to pay, no food bills, in fact no economy at all, but everybody would still live, probably much less stressed.

Why is not having an economy a bad thing...?

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There's no harm in people giving their time free to do things that otherwise wouldn't be done or wouldn't be economically viable.

The problem now is that local authorities (in particular) are looking at replacing paid staff with volunteers. Private sector firms are doing thus too, in a different way, by getting people to work for nothing to prove they're worthy of a paid job. It's difficult to know where to put the dividing line. For instance, to take a ridiculous example, if the rail operators decided to introduce a scheme for volunteer train drivers, they'd be inundated with people who just want to have a go at driving trains - in fact they could probably charge people more to drive trains than just to travel on them!

I think this is going to be a big issue over the next couple of years. The new "workfare" scheme (all to do with the "Big Society") will come in next year, and I very much suspect that they will get those ppl on these schemes to do work that ppl once got paid to do. Yes, I understand that if this happened then it could initially be a good thing, as it would give ppl relevant work experience. However, such a scheme could end up exploiting the unemployed. If there's a job to do, pay them a decent wage for doing it...

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I do not any-more give money to any charity my son works for a national charity that regularly tugs at your heart strings for £3 a week on TV ,he tells me of massive salary's, big cars, trips abroad which he questions the validity .

I now give around 5 hrs of my time to the elderly around where i live and have the benefit of seeing their gratitude.

I know also of others Boomers taking this route

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If someone wants to do something to help others, it is no-one's business but theirs, really.

Would you want to live in a world where doing something for someone else out of kindness was outlawed because someone else could have made money off it?

Nice.......

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  • 238 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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