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The Masked Tulip

The Return Of 'gazundering' Is Good For The Property Market

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Just as I don't subscribe to gazumping nor do I support gazundering. Buyer & Seller agree on a mutually agreeable price, shake on it and but for loss of job or death afaic it's a done deal. End of.

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Just as I don't subscribe to gazumping nor do I support gazundering. Buyer & Seller agree on a mutually agreeable price, shake on it and but for loss of job or death afaic it's a done deal. End of.

Yes, an Englishman is only as good as his word, handshake, etc, etc. Meanwhile, in the real World...

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Yes, an Englishman is only as good as his word, handshake, etc, etc. Meanwhile, in the real World...

Meanwhile, in the real World... They can do what they damn well like, but I will always stick to my verbal agreements.

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Just as I don't subscribe to gazumping nor do I support gazundering. Buyer & Seller agree on a mutually agreeable price, shake on it and but for loss of job or death afaic it's a done deal. End of.

No one should give a final price until exchange of contracts, everything else up to that point is just guesswork.

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Anything that helps bring the price of houses down for the next generation is good. Sellers do not have to accept a lower offer . If the price is right then the house will be snapped up by another buyer so what is the problem ? If no one else shows interest then the price needs to be lowered again. As a home owner I do accept that offers should be 30% off the asking price and 10% off the surveyors valuation at the moment though.

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MSW makes an excellent point: if the seller had priced at a realistic market clearing level, getting gazundered would be no big deal at all because (s)he always find another buyer quickly and easily. (And at a realistic market-clearing price level, of course, it wouldn't actually happen because the buyer would know that the seller would simply go with another of the would-be buyers)

Gazundering is only a problem for a seller who has no other buyers waiting, and a buyer who knows (or guesses) this. The problem wouldn't exist if sellers lowered their price enough to attract more than one potential buyer.

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Meanwhile, in the real World... They can do what they damn well like, but I will always stick to my verbal agreements.

We are possibly in this situation right now. We agreed a price. We have a mortgage offer and a clear valuation (although the surveyor was an idiot). We sent in a second surveyor who is an expert in the local area to carry out the full building survey. And the main theme of the survey that we have received back from him is that we have agreed to pay way too much money for the houses, and it just isn't worth it.

EA telling me that the mortgage co valuer has cleared it. I said well we are only taking out a 30% mortgage. he said, doesn't matter, the surveyor owes you a duty of care to give a reasoned valuation. I say, well the the first valuer knows little about the area, and is an idiot (eg his report says there is full gas supply and in fact the house can only get oil). The second surveyor is an expert in this area, and was in fact recommended to me by the EA himself as a said expert. Which one do I follow.

Will I agree to buy a house if I'm told pre exchange of contract by my surveyor that the house just isn't worth that much, by as much as 70k? No. I cannot stick to my original verbal agreement in those circumstances. The verbal agreement is always subject to valuation, mortgage, survey and legals.

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We are possibly in this situation right now. We agreed a price. We have a mortgage offer and a clear valuation (although the surveyor was an idiot). We sent in a second surveyor who is an expert in the local area to carry out the full building survey. And the main theme of the survey that we have received back from him is that we have agreed to pay way too much money for the houses, and it just isn't worth it.

EA telling me that the mortgage co valuer has cleared it. I said well we are only taking out a 30% mortgage. he said, doesn't matter, the surveyor owes you a duty of care to give a reasoned valuation. I say, well the the first valuer knows little about the area, and is an idiot (eg his report says there is full gas supply and in fact the house can only get oil). The second surveyor is an expert in this area, and was in fact recommended to me by the EA himself as a said expert. Which one do I follow.

Will I agree to buy a house if I'm told pre exchange of contract by my surveyor that the house just isn't worth that much, by as much as 70k? No. I cannot stick to my original verbal agreement in those circumstances. The verbal agreement is always subject to valuation, mortgage, survey and legals.

Can you clarify please - your surveyor came back and said the house was worth 70K LESS than your offer which, I assume, was less than the asking price?

Can you give us the full asking price, your offer, surveyor's price please? Thanks.

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We are possibly in this situation right now. We agreed a price. We have a mortgage offer and a clear valuation (although the surveyor was an idiot). We sent in a second surveyor who is an expert in the local area to carry out the full building survey. And the main theme of the survey that we have received back from him is that we have agreed to pay way too much money for the houses, and it just isn't worth it.

EA telling me that the mortgage co valuer has cleared it. I said well we are only taking out a 30% mortgage. he said, doesn't matter, the surveyor owes you a duty of care to give a reasoned valuation. I say, well the the first valuer knows little about the area, and is an idiot (eg his report says there is full gas supply and in fact the house can only get oil). The second surveyor is an expert in this area, and was in fact recommended to me by the EA himself as a said expert. Which one do I follow.

Will I agree to buy a house if I'm told pre exchange of contract by my surveyor that the house just isn't worth that much, by as much as 70k? No. I cannot stick to my original verbal agreement in those circumstances. The verbal agreement is always subject to valuation, mortgage, survey and legals.

If you made your offer 'subject to satisfactory survey' and the survey revealed faults that had not been disclosed by the seller then you are perfectly correct to reduce your offer accordingly.

If, however, you've just got another valuation that is £70K less than the one you based your offer on, you should, in my opinion, stand by your word.

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I say, well the the first valuer knows little about the area, and is an idiot (eg his report says there is full gas supply and in fact the house can only get oil)

The surveyor for my mortgage application made so many mistakes, it was a complete joke. They are clearly rubber stampers with fingers crossed to make sure they don't get sued in a few years time. 30 minutes work for £250 which I had to pay for.

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We are possibly in this situation right now. We agreed a price. We have a mortgage offer and a clear valuation (although the surveyor was an idiot). We sent in a second surveyor who is an expert in the local area to carry out the full building survey. And the main theme of the survey that we have received back from him is that we have agreed to pay way too much money for the houses, and it just isn't worth it.

EA telling me that the mortgage co valuer has cleared it. I said well we are only taking out a 30% mortgage. he said, doesn't matter, the surveyor owes you a duty of care to give a reasoned valuation. I say, well the the first valuer knows little about the area, and is an idiot (eg his report says there is full gas supply and in fact the house can only get oil). The second surveyor is an expert in this area, and was in fact recommended to me by the EA himself as a said expert. Which one do I follow.

Will I agree to buy a house if I'm told pre exchange of contract by my surveyor that the house just isn't worth that much, by as much as 70k? No. I cannot stick to my original verbal agreement in those circumstances. The verbal agreement is always subject to valuation, mortgage, survey and legals.

But surely you made an offer "Subject to survey" ?

You survey has indicated the price is overvalued - I don't see what the moral problem is here. If you lower your offer you are not breaking your word.

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If you made your offer 'subject to satisfactory survey' and the survey revealed faults that had not been disclosed by the seller then you are perfectly correct to reduce your offer accordingly.

If, however, you've just got another valuation that is £70K less than the one you based your offer on, you should, in my opinion, stand by your word.

You are joking arn't you???

You don't give "your word" when you put an offer on a house. Thats it, its an "offer", even "offer accepted" doesn't change the fact that it is an "offer".

I'll say it slowly o--f--f--e--r

Edited by cardiffone

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You are joking arn't you???

You don't give "your word" when you put an offer on a house. Thats it, its an "offer", even "offer accepted" doesn't change the fact that it is an "offer".

I'll say it slowly o--f--f--e--r

I put a verbal offer on a house in 2005. I stated that my offer was subject to satisfactory survey was not negotiable and was valid until the end of the week. Having slept on it, I regretted it the next day and spent the following three days hoping that the offer was not accepted. Fortunately, it was rejected, but had it been accepted and the survey had come up clean, I would have bought the house. Legally I could have got out of it, but I had given my word.

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I put a verbal offer on a house in 2005. I stated that my offer was subject to satisfactory survey was not negotiable and was valid until the end of the week. Having slept on it, I regretted it the next day and spent the following three days hoping that the offer was not accepted. Fortunately, it was rejected, but had it been accepted and the survey had come up clean, I would have bought the house. Legally I could have got out of it, but I had given my word.

Lesson is, never give "your word" at the beginning of the house buying process. It should always be an offer and is subject to change if more relevant information comes to light, and thats not just the survey...

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Lesson is, never give "your word" at the beginning of the house buying process. It should always be an offer and is subject to change if more relevant information comes to light, and thats not just the survey...

In this case, my offer was 25% below asking price and to give it some weight I pointed out that it was a proceedable cash offer and that I could complete within three weeks (the vendor wanted to emigrate). He shot himself in the foot when the EA tried to haggle me up by an extra five grand and since I'd said it was not negotiable, I pulled out on the spot. The agent was back on the phone an hour later :rolleyes:.

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Just as I don't subscribe to gazumping nor do I support gazundering. Buyer & Seller agree on a mutually agreeable price, shake on it and but for loss of job or death afaic it's a done deal. End of.

What about the unforeseen turning up in a survey?

Or, in our case, an absentee freeholder (which we weren't aware of when me made the original offer) causing all sorts of extra hassle and expense. We're probably going to be asking for a reduction to take all this into account if the purchase does finally go ahead.

Much as I don't like gazundering, I will feel perfectly justified here.

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Lesson is, never give "your word" at the beginning of the house buying process. It should always be an offer and is subject to change if more relevant information comes to light, and thats not just the survey...

Then why even bother opening your mouth? What relevent information is there other than the survey (and I suppose discovering that you can't get the finance after all)? A different opinion on what it's worth, even if the condition is exactly what you thought it was? Sorry, no. Just put in an offer that you're prepared to pay and that you think it's worth. If other people have other ideas that's their business.

Edit: Mrs Bear's reason seems like another good reason; basically on knowledge of the property.

Edited by Riedquat

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Then why even bother opening your mouth? What relevent information is there other than the survey (and I suppose discovering that you can't get the finance after all)? A different opinion on what it's worth, even if the condition is exactly what you thought it was? Sorry, no. Just put in an offer that you're prepared to pay and that you think it's worth. If other people have other ideas that's their business.

Edit: Mrs Bear's reason seems like another good reason; basically on knowledge of the property.

A survey doesn't hold all the answers to what price you should pay for a house, it just helps.

If 3 estate agents can give 3 different valuations for a house, so can 3 surveyors.

Honesty, it takes time to work out what you should really pay for a house you need to do your research, talk to the neighbours (yeh the surveyors going to do that!) find out info about the area, go through your finances several times.... the list goes on.

What if your price on the house you are selling gets knocked down before exchange?

We are talking of a purchase that is potentially in the hundreds of thousands for most people, as if a first offer and a friendly handshake is enough.....

Edited by cardiffone

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Am I in the minority here in thinking that I would not even make an offer on a place until I'd had a survey conducted?

For such a large financial commitment as a house even if you didn't ultimately proceed and you lost the fee it's a small price to pay. Like an AA car inspection on a 2nd hand car, yes it costs £100+ but if it discovers that it's a complete lemon you've saved yourself thousands.

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What about the unforeseen turning up in a survey?

Or, in our case, an absentee freeholder (which we weren't aware of when me made the original offer) causing all sorts of extra hassle and expense. We're probably going to be asking for a reduction to take all this into account if the purchase does finally go ahead.

Much as I don't like gazundering, I will feel perfectly justified here.

I don't really think that is gazundering.

To me gazundering is waiting till the day before exchange and for no reason, ie. no new information comes to light, dropping the offer on the assumption that the seller will have to accept to complete a chain / Shift a probate etc. - standard tactic of a developer.

regards

J

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Am I in the minority here in thinking that I would not even make an offer on a place until I'd had a survey conducted?

For such a large financial commitment as a house even if you didn't ultimately proceed and you lost the fee it's a small price to pay. Like an AA car inspection on a 2nd hand car, yes it costs £100+ but if it discovers that it's a complete lemon you've saved yourself thousands.

Minority of one I would think.

Spending cash without knowing if the seller will accept your offer seems reckless.

regards

J

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Minority of one I would think.

Spending cash without knowing if the seller will accept your offer seems reckless.

The offer that you may not even bother adhering to? If you don't hold it binding, subject to some good reasons already given, then what's the point of it? Other peoples' valuations are all very well but the only one that really matters is do you think it's worth what you're prepared to pay for it?

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Am I in the minority here in thinking that I would not even make an offer on a place until I'd had a survey conducted?

For such a large financial commitment as a house even if you didn't ultimately proceed and you lost the fee it's a small price to pay. Like an AA car inspection on a 2nd hand car, yes it costs £100+ but if it discovers that it's a complete lemon you've saved yourself thousands.

I'm afraid you are likely to find yourself in the minority with that approach, and can turn out to be an expensive excercise if other events overtake you.

Make your offer 'subject to contract, survey and valuation' is the best way. If the property valuation comes in less than the agreed price I do not see that as gazundering. Reducing your offer late in the transaction just because you feel like it is gazundering and not a very pleasant practice. Just like gazumping. It's just a shame that some people put their personal financial gain above basic morals.

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  • 245 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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