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40% Price Rises Planned On The Trains

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If you thought that Wednesday’s spending review was all about Whitehall and welfare waste, then think again. So sharp are the cuts planned that some of the Coalition’s core voters are in for another shock, on train fares.

About 600 million annual train journeys have fares that are regulated by a formula set by the Government in relation to the near £2 billion subsidy it gives to the train operators.

The end result will be train fares rising by near double digit percentages in each year of the Spending Review.

Overall, Government sources are expecting these train fares to be over 30 per cent higher by 2015, and industry sources pointed towards a 40 per cent hike by 2015.

Source, http://blogs.channel4.com/faisal-islam-on-economics/rail-fare-increases-of-30-to-40-per-cent/13290

It's reckoned a season ticket from Swindon to London will increase by over £3,000. A Stealth Tax on jobs?

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How will this work, exactly? Presumably nobody will be able to afford trains anymore? They'll be empty.

I am amazed anybody is on them nowadays. Extortionately expensive.

(Cue someone posting a first class open Edinburgh to London return they have just found for 4p.)

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Source, http://blogs.channel4.com/faisal-islam-on-economics/rail-fare-increases-of-30-to-40-per-cent/13290

It's reckoned a season ticket from Swindon to London will increase by over £3,000. A Stealth Tax on jobs?

Or possibly a removal of an economic distortion that subsidises the relocation of jobs from Swindon (or the North or Midlands) to London.

Or possibly the removal of a tax on poor people who live far from train stations, in say the North or Midlands, to pay for a benefit for rich people who live in the South East.

Going to be interesting to see what they do with the subsidy to Transport for London. Interesting facts, the subsidy given to TfL is almost exactly the same as the subsidy for Network Rail. Most of it is used to keep the tube running. And the revenue from tube tickets pays almost exactly half of the cost of running the system, the rest is subsidy.

And of course most of Network Rail's network is in London and the South East.

So, are they going to continue subsidising rich Londoners (poor Londoners use buses) or are they going to throw Boris to the wolves?

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Im sure this is a great thing. All those silly people who believe in global warming will be forced to work in the actual city they live in. Nice one.

It would be nice to think so but the reality is likely to be that for many it becomes cheaper to travel by car.

It's certainly cheaper for me to travel by car than train, and that's with a car with a 2.5 litre petrol engine. When we travel as a family, car travel costs a fraction of train travel- return travel to London for five people costs £240 on the train and it's 70 miles away.

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I am amazed anybody is on them nowadays. Extortionately expensive.

Rail use is at the highest since the second world war.

If it was extortionately expensive, people wouldn't use them. QED.

People use trains to go to work in jobs that pay much more than local jobs. They factor in the cost when they take the job.

Why should poor people subsidise rich people to go to their better paying jobs?

What is the point of subsidising jobs in the centre of London which could be done by people in Manchester or Newcastle?

It is middle class benefits that are killing this country, they need to be stopped.

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Dont worry, the cost of running a car will be doubling too.

Yes, I'm sure you are right and as I told you a few days ago I will be scrapping my own car next year in anticipation of this. But then I no longer work and probably won't work again so I don't need a car, people still working will still need to travel. Essentially this is a huge pay cut for anyone still working.

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40% in five years !!! I wondered how this fits in with 0-4% inflation it will have a massive impact on the inlation figures . But then again maybe not we have had increases like this on train fares for years but the powers that be are still able to come up with inflation at very low levels . Does anyone beleive the inflation figures.

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It's reckoned a season ticket from Swindon to London will increase by over £3,000.

That's just an idiot tax.

You have to be an idiot to live in Swindon and work in London.

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Poor people dont pay for anything, they get paid for by others.

The personal allowance is £6,475.

Anybody who earns more than this pays taxes. Even people earning less than this pay VAT.

If you are single, childless and fit you get diddly squat back from the state.

No child benefit, no family credit, no fuel allowance, no bus pass, etc, etc.

Why should single people on £15k, £10k, £8k pay taxes so that it can be paid to middle class spongers in the South East to subsidise their train fares and bringing up their brats?

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From the link:

The increase in regulated fares is currently set at the Retail Price Index plus 1 per cent, I understand from industry and Whitehall sources that this is set to rise substantially.

Anyone else think that this is a kinda flawed way of setting competitive market prices?

Only recently on here I learned that the fare from Brighton to Stoke is a majestic £285 . . . count about £50 each way by car.

Anyway, I just hope this isn't going to derail the recovery ;)

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Why does it cost so **** much to run the railways?

Partly because running a railway is very difficult:

Rolling stock is expensive and requires regular expensive maintenance to ensure reliability.

Track (and necessary infrastructure) is very expensive. E.g. overhead electrification is nearly £1.5 million / mile (if electrical infrastructure is not already present).

Partly because government interferes in running of trains:

There are many little used routes that government insists are kept running at a huge loss.

The government likes to control the rail network and adds lots of pointless controls - e.g. train operators are not permitted to choose how many trains to run on any particular route. The government tells them how many to run - and they have to do it (so, if the trains are empty, the companies are not permitted to run fewer trains; and if the trains are severely overcrowded, they are not allowed to add extra trains).

Partly because of planning restrictions which make upgrading old or inadequate line near impossible.

Also deliberate design choices to install 'just adequate' infrastructure for cost-reasons without provisioning for future upgrades or reliability (e.g. The east coast mainline was electrified on a shoestring budget, as a result the electrical infrastructure is less reliable than normal - super-long spacing between support pylons makes the wires very vulnerable to wind damage - and unable to support the largest trains)

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That's just an idiot tax.

You have to be an idiot to live in Swindon and work in London.

On the face of it yes, but then maybe there wouldn't be replacement jobs in Swindon for the hundreds who commute to London every day if they woke up one day and decided to stop being idiots.

Perhaps if transport becomes unaffordable we will go back to the days, not so long ago, when we all walked to work to the factory at the end of the street.

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Partly because running a railway is very difficult:

Rolling stock is expensive and requires regular expensive maintenance to ensure reliability.

Track (and necessary infrastructure) is very expensive. E.g. overhead electrification is nearly £1.5 million / mile (if electrical infrastructure is not already present).

Partly because government interferes in running of trains:

There are many little used routes that government insists are kept running at a huge loss.

The government likes to control the rail network and adds lots of pointless controls - e.g. train operators are not permitted to choose how many trains to run on any particular route. The government tells them how many to run - and they have to do it (so, if the trains are empty, the companies are not permitted to run fewer trains; and if the trains are severely overcrowded, they are not allowed to add extra trains).

Partly because of planning restrictions which make upgrading old or inadequate line near impossible.

Also deliberate design choices to install 'just adequate' infrastructure for cost-reasons without provisioning for future upgrades or reliability (e.g. The east coast mainline was electrified on a shoestring budget, as a result the electrical infrastructure is less reliable than normal - super-long spacing between support pylons makes the wires very vulnerable to wind damage - and unable to support the largest trains)

Also the level of safety is way, way higher than that applied to roads.

The public think that trains are dangerous because when something goes wrong usually a significant number of people get killed at the same time. The press then go overboard because it is photogenic, and the public, press and politicians demand that nothing like this ever happens again.

Far more people get killed on the roads, but it is in dribs and drabs, so nobody bothers.

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It's reckoned a season ticket from Swindon to London will increase by over £3,000.

This puts season ticket prices back where they were before privatisation. MacGregor artificially kept down season ticket prices. The results of this are that everywhere from Peterborough to Brighton and Swindon to Ipswich is now commuterland. It hit London hard because the lower middle classes emigrated to beyond the M25. The trains that are now overcrowded could be more like they were in the 1980s in terms of less crowding.

Personally, I'd rather pay the extra to be able to get on a train rather than have them arrive full up. If they had more money I am sure at least some of it would be spent on the railways. If we're going to grow rail then we need a lower subsidy because the subsidy will grow with usage.

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40% in five years !!! I wondered how this fits in with 0-4% inflation it will have a massive impact on the inlation figures . But then again maybe not we have had increases like this on train fares for years but the powers that be are still able to come up with inflation at very low levels . Does anyone beleive the inflation figures.

Yes, but look at inflation since the Government first regulated prices in 1992. You'll find that prices have gone up lower than inflation.

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I am amazed anybody is on them nowadays. Extortionately expensive.

Season tickets are surprisingly cheap in the South-East. It is the daily tickets that are expensive.

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Source, http://blogs.channel4.com/faisal-islam-on-economics/rail-fare-increases-of-30-to-40-per-cent/13290

It's reckoned a season ticket from Swindon to London will increase by over £3,000. A Stealth Tax on jobs?

I recently visited Holland and enjoyed a wonderful train journey. The train was double-deckered and spotlessly clean; plenty of seats and the other commuters were civilised; and - shock! horror! - the train wasn't delayed. It just highlighted what a sh1t rail system we have in this country.

If they're increasing fares, then they need to look to the Continent to see how to improve the service up to a good standard.

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  • 259 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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