Its Begun: 5,557 Fireman To Be Let Go

[plb]

If the strike is about jobcuts then I support them

if its about this change to shift patterns then I dont

Caught the tail end of the discussion on LBC radio on the way home. The Firefighters who were phoning in seemed to be saying "it's not about cuts, it's about their [management's] plan to close down stations in the future" or "it's not about cuts, it about not having enough cover during the evening" (i.e. not safe).

Apparently, going to a balanced shift (12 hrs/12 hrs rather than 9hrs/15hrs) means that in the future stations and appliances can be got rid of and/or there will be less cover at night.

The argument didn't seem to stack up.

As I said, only caught the tail end of it....

[xux42]

“This is a huge vote for strike action,” Matt Wrack, FBU general secretary, said in the statement. “This vote demonstrates that London firefighters will fight these mass sackings every step of the way.”

Mass sackings of firefighters is a terrible idea but from what I can see the mgt. are proposing changes to shift patterns and that 'some' posts would be removed.

Mr Wrack appears to be jumping to conclusions and putting the proposals in the worst possible light.

Perhaps Mr Wrack would like to present his own proposals for reducing the deficit and eventually balancing the budget.

[plummet expert]

They're already in Afghanistan, also some bright spark sold all the green goddesses to Kenya.

Green Goddesses!!!!! Mrs Thatcher ordered them out of moth balls in the 80's and they were 30 years old then. Doubt they could hose down even a front door anymore.

It's a war on debt, so perhaps there will be a call-up of volunteers where we all try out each others essential jobs, when the strikes are on. I'm sure we would all be surprised by some that we can do easily and others that you can't.

There will be no one happy with the cuts except very rich people who will find their money goes much further as we all scramble for business of any sort. There are no safe jobs virtually. Mrs Thatcher used to have a nickname being TINA - standing for 'There is no alternative'.

[hedgefunded]

Getting rid of that many firemen is a good idea. It's not as if they don't have other jobs to go to.

[neil324]

A 15 hr shift ?

if they are busy then at the end of that 15 hrs

they will be fukked

then they get approx 7 hrs sleep after commuting home

and have to do another 15 hrs

It can get to a point where it becomes dangerous

12 hr shifts are long enough

there is also the fact they are working 2 long nights every 8 days

which is disruptive to their sleep system

If the strike is about jobcuts then I support them

if its about this change to shift patterns then I dont

They sleep in beds waiting for the bell, most night's the call does'nt come. I knew a fireman who was a relief teacher by day, go figure???

[The Masked Tulip]

I believe, of all public sector employees, Fire-fighers have the best pensions and best contracts.

I bet there will be plenty of Fire-fighters comping at the bit to be made redundant and take a huge wodge in pay-off and pension paid up in full.

[opt_out]

I'd be unhappy if I had to get up at six in the morning and go home. Much better to stay in bed and get paid for it.

[SqueezePlay]

Number of fatalities and casualties from fires in the UK has steadily decreased over the last few years (stats available from 1994 onwards) due to smoke detectors etc. Many fire-fighters spend much of their time increasing awareness about the risk of house fires, car crashes - using school visits etc.

Question is...since the number of fires has fallen (risk decrease) - would you accept a reduction in the response to a fire (risk increase)

Also note the number of fire fighters killed whilst on duty has been creeping up recently....

Squeeze

[cockrobin]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-14/london-firefighters-vote-in-favor-of-strike-action-over-plans-for-job-cuts.html

London Firefighters Vote in Favor of Strike Action Over Plans for Job Cuts

By Chris "Christopher" Spillane - Oct 14, 2010 4:55 PM GMT

They voted by 3,482 to 943 to take industrial action on as yet undisclosed dates, according to a Fire Brigades Union statement today. The turnout for the vote was 79 percent.

“This is a huge vote for strike action,” Matt Wrack, FBU general secretary, said in the statement. “This vote demonstrates that London firefighters will fight these mass sackings every step of the way.”

The strike will be abandoned if Ron Dobson, London’s Fire Brigade Commissioner, withdraws a letter which began the legal process of cutting some of the 5,557 uniformed and 41 non- operational firefighters, the FBU said in the statement.

A bit like NIMBYISM imo. We all know cuts are needed but not my job you don't.

Hope it's when I'm in London for a week in November. I'll go out of my way to drive past and shout obscenities at the tossers.

[cockrobin]

No need to cut the jobs, just do what they did to me and replace them with eastern Europeans.

Careful, some of the retard socialist posters will pull the race card.

[Jonnybegood]

I must say the shift patterns these guys along with the ambulance service and police work do not make much sense to me, its like for half the year taking into account holidays they are off work.

Or over the 5 different shift crews 3 are always off work whilst the other 2 work the day and night shift between them.

What I have found over the past number of years is that lots of these guys have secondary jobs on their days off, Plumbing , Building etc.

Now times have changed and tightening of the belt all round is needed then I think its fair to question the shift patterns and are we getting value for the money spent, could a shift be knocked off? Shorter hours but more days in work etc etc etc.

Maybe what we got is the best, but like everyone else they should still be as flexible as the rest when it comes to change.

[SNACR]

Hope it's when I'm in London for a week in November. I'll go out of my way to drive past and shout obscenities at the tossers.

When they last went on strike my local fire station recorded only one incidence of fire during the whole strike period - the oil drum the firemen were burning wood in to keep warm on their picket line set fire to the hedge.

I don't know if they waited for the army in a Green Goddess to come and put it our or not.

[Analysis]

Well spotted! I was thinking 5557 seemed like a lot. Striking over 40 odd seems a bit drastic.

I agree that firefightrers should be among the last jobs to be cut (along with NHS staff that actually practise the healing arts and teachers who actually teach students in real classrooms).

NHS being cut by stealth. Couple of examples happening right now:

1) Trusts used to have access to centralised Microsoft software. Now the govt has ditched the central contract to 'save' money, transferring the cost to individual Trusts. Aorund £800 000 per annum in the case of my Trust, or 30-40 nurses

2) At a recent meeting with fellow clinical scientists, they without exception told me that people leaving were not being replaced. Our department is already staffed at 70% of the recommended level. Further reductions will make treatments less safe, or people will have to wait longer which, in the case of cancer, can mean the difference between survival and death.

[mary hinge]

Hope it's when I'm in London for a week in November. I'll go out of my way to drive past and shout obscenities at the tossers.

And I hope they'll do the same if your house catches fire, you w@nker.

This has gone way beyond the realms of HPC now, with phuckwitts spouting no ends of pish.

These services are essential. NOT PHUCKING "NIMBY-ism".

The strike is due to p1ss poor bullying management and the realisation of the thin end of the wedge ( ie reduced fire cover at night)

Educate yourselves, and be very careful what you wish for.

Dickheads like cockrobin really need a reality check ( or perhaps they're simply jealous of firefighters)

Edited October 14, 2010 by mary hinge

[mary hinge]

I believe, of all public sector employees, Fire-fighers have the best pensions and best contracts.

I bet there will be plenty of Fire-fighters comping at the bit to be made redundant and take a huge wodge in pay-off and pension paid up in full.

Yeah, firefighters have a much better package than MPs....

What a ******in tw@t.

[northwestsmith2]

When they last went on strike my local fire station recorded only one incidence of fire during the whole strike period - the oil drum the firemen were burning wood in to keep warm on their picket line set fire to the hedge.

I don't know if they waited for the army in a Green Goddess to come and put it our or not.

I remember another one like that, they should have waited for the replacement service to arrive if they were really on strike.

Looks like the boss is not backing down as well, five years they've been arguing.

http://www.london-fire.gov.uk/NewsReleases.asp

14/10/2010

London Fire Commissioner Ron Dobson said: “Our contingency plans will of course now move forward to ensure the capital is protected during any period of strike action by the FBU.”

.........

In 2009 The London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority signed a contract with AssetCo to provide London with a contingency level of fire and rescue services if firefighters are not available for a number of reasons, for example, in the event of severe pandemic illness, natural disaster or catastrophic incident as well as industrial action.

...............

Brigade changes are needed to increase the amount of time in the day shift for fire prevention work that has helped to reduce the number of fires in the capital by 48 per cent in the last nine years, and provide more time for the specialist training firefighters now need to receive.

The proposals seek to keep the same shift pattern of two day duties, two night duties and four days off. The 15 hour night shift would reduce and the nine hour day shift would increase, providing two equal 12 hour shifts. A recommended compromise of an 11 hour day and 13 hour night has already been made by the Brigade - talks with the Union continue.

In July following five years of discussion, and frustration at a lack of progress made, London Fire Commissioner, Ron Dobson, began a formal process of consultation under section188 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992, to set in place a three month timetable for the Brigade and FBU to reach a final agreement. The process of terminating contracts and offering new contracts will be subject to final decision and only commence if discussions during that timetable do not result in an agreement.

The contingency arrangements allow the Brigade to place up to 27 fire appliances at strategic locations across the Brigade area and is a significant improvement on the green goddesses used during the last strike. The arrangements are not intended to replicate or replace what the Brigade does but gives, so far as is reasonably practicable, an acceptable level of contingency cover if the FBU strike.

As part of the contingency arrangements a reduced level of firefighting services will be provided. The contractor will be able to provide firefighting and some rescue capabilities, and will be able to provide a response to road traffic collisions.

Edited October 14, 2010 by northwestsmith2

[Harry Monk]

The strike is due to p1ss poor bullying management

Yep, there are enormous savings to be made in the Fire Service, but it is by kicking out the stuffed shirts and not the blokes who climb up ladders.

[Harry Sacks]

I believe, of all public sector employees, Fire-fighers have the best pensions and best contracts.

I bet there will be plenty of Fire-fighters comping at the bit to be made redundant and take a huge wodge in pay-off and pension paid up in full.

Really? B*stards!

Let's campaign to make their jobs as s*it as ours. It's just not fair!

[cockrobin]

And I hope they'll do the same if your house catches fire, you w@nker.

This has gone way beyond the realms of HPC now, with phuckwitts spouting no ends of pish.

These services are essential. NOT PHUCKING "NIMBY-ism".

The strike is due to p1ss poor bullying management and the realisation of the thin end of the wedge ( ie reduced fire cover at night)

Educate yourselves, and be very careful what you wish for.

Dickheads like cockrobin really need a reality check ( or perhaps they're simply jealous of firefighters)

[RDW]

Green Goddesses!!!!! Mrs Thatcher ordered them out of moth balls in the 80's and they were 30 years old then. Doubt they could hose down even a front door anymore.

It's a war on debt, so perhaps there will be a call-up of volunteers where we all try out each others essential jobs, when the strikes are on. I'm sure we would all be surprised by some that we can do easily and others that you can't.

There will be no one happy with the cuts except very rich people who will find their money goes much further as we all scramble for business of any sort. There are no safe jobs virtually. Mrs Thatcher used to have a nickname being TINA - standing for 'There is no alternative'.

Green Goddesses, what do I need them for ?

We have a fleet of shiney new Dennises all of the country, let the firemn go on strike, but the fire trucks are ours, the taxpayers, not theirs.

And whoever brought about this crazy 'unwritten' rule that we can not use our eqipment because these luvvies are upset by reality needs testing, and if it is written it needs revoking straight away.

Bring it on, and if there is a fire, I will go and get the Dennis myself, 'it's ours not yours love !'

[DeepLurker]

Yeah, firefighters have a much better package than MPs....

What a ******in tw@t.

Calm down, calm down, you're hyperventilating

He said "... of all public sector employees...".

So he wasn't talking about MPs...

[Chest Rockwell]

you can bet your **** that those with huge mortgages to pay will be crossing the picket line! It's times like these that huge personal debt becomes useful to the elite!

[stu531]

The worst thing about all this is the amount of diatribe people have unwittingly swallowed.

How many times have you seen TV reporters interviewing people, who say 'yeah, we've spent too much, we need to start cutting'. Yet when they're questioned about health, defence, schools, transport, police - you name it, they suddenly disagree. The problem here is that people just haven't understood the reality of cuts. Now that things are about to become very real, the language will change. Mister Daily Mail will suddenly understand what cuts mean to him, once his bus is no longer free, or there is a rise in crime, or there are yet more 'layabouts' on the streets. Oh and hopefully, if next door's house is on fire, it doesn't completely burn down.

[RufflesTheGuineaPig]

What was the thread title before?

5,557 firemen fired?

I wouldn't be supprised if they sacked them all and re-employed most of them on cheaper temporary contracts.

It wouldn't be legal and the courts would throw it out, but I wouldn't put it past the tories to try.

[Number79]

I wouldn't be supprised if they sacked them all and re-employed most of them on cheaper temporary contracts.

It wouldn't be legal and the courts would throw it out, but I wouldn't put it past the tories to try.

Frankly, I thought they should have all been sacked during the last great wave of strikes when the army had to be used. With something like 14 applicants per job they would not be hard to replace and many should have been.

I have no sympathy for them striking because shifts are being altered.