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ScrewsNutsandBolts
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A good critical opposition should be armed with credible alternatives, though that isn't necessary to air them so far from an election.

Spike began with the obvious advantage of being considered the no hoper in such hallowed company as the Camoron.What he did was to underline yet again how hopeless the latter is.If he had possessed any nouse whatsover he would be sitting there with a hundred more hoorah henry and henriettas behind him and thumbing his nose at boy Clegg instead of humouring him.

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I'm a dyed in the wool Tory boy but I'd concede that Millband had Cameron on the ropes today.. That said, any monkey could have done the same thing as it really is an unfair system they're proposing.

It'll be interesting to see how it'll be covered in the media. I suspect ITV/CH4 will give a passing nod to it, whereas the BBC will run a whole feature on it.. The reverse wouldn't be true if it was new Tory leader.

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Gotta do better than that Dave. Milliband 6-0... Milliband doesn't need to offer his plans with 5 years to an election, just needs to rubbish the plans of the coalition.

I don't agree with the CB policy. Why should 2x30pa get it and 1x45pa not. Can't have one parent at home can we, how would we pay for the ridiculous cost of housing?

Maybe only pay CB for the 1st and possibly 2nd child? Sends a better message IMO.

It seems feking obvious that CB should offer deminishing returns.... ie £x for the first child then (£x + £(x / 2)) for the second, etc....

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+1

I just wished DC just gave a straight answer.

Indeed.

He complained so much at the last lot about their continual dodging of questions it was a perfect opportunity to set an example and on a subject that's possible to explain.

Ok people might not have liked the answers but in this case (child benefit) it would have been possible to give a reasoned answer. But no he just did what the last lot did and dodged around the subject - such a disappointing response from him.

Edited by billybong
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Indeed.

He complained so much at the last lot about their continual dodging of questions it was a perfect opportunity to set an example and on a subject that's possible to explain.

Ok people might not have liked the answers but in this case (child benefit) it would have been possible to give a reasoned answer. But no he just did what the last lot did and dodged around the subject - such a disappointing response from him.

So what is the "straight answer"?

I'd guess the real reason is HMRC told them it would easiest to administer this way. But Camamoron can hardly say we're shafting you because it's less effort than implementing a fair system.

(Realistically he should probably have cancelled CB altogether and made it up to the poor in Child Tax Credits. Same fiscal effect, less drama.)

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DC missed an open goal. Miliband told him he needed to recognise the size of the impact cutting Child Benefit would have. Cameron should have told him that Labour needed to recognise the colossal size of the debt they've saddled the country with. DC did mention it at one point which got a groan out of the Labour back benches. Poor things. After 5 months they must be so bored of hearing what a mess they made of the economy.

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DC missed an open goal. Miliband told him he needed to recognise the size of the impact cutting Child Benefit would have. Cameron should have told him that Labour needed to recognise the colossal size of the debt they've saddled the country with. DC did mention it at one point which got a groan out of the Labour back benches. Poor things. After 5 months they must be so bored of hearing what a mess they made of the economy.

The thing is when in oppostion the Tories pretty much backed all the spending that was going on.....

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I'm a dyed in the wool Tory boy but I'd concede that Millband had Cameron on the ropes today.. That said, any monkey could have done the same thing as it really is an unfair system they're proposing.

It'll be interesting to see how it'll be covered in the media. I suspect ITV/CH4 will give a passing nod to it, whereas the BBC will run a whole feature on it.. The reverse wouldn't be true if it was new Tory leader.

I don't know what is wrong with Cameron and his advisers. All he had to say is 'yes, it is not perfect, but it will work, it will save money and it is progressive. Unlike the party opposite we believe in implementing policies that will save money - not implement changes that cost more to administer than they save. The days of cloak and mirrors with numbers is over - it's not perfect but if the party opposite had not left the country up to its neck in debt, it wouldn't be necessary.'

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Yep, a pretty good first innings.

What baffles me a bit is why Cameron didn't simply answer Miliband's repeated 'child benefit fairness' question. It's not as if there isn't a rational answer.

Which is?

The other day one of the ConsDems did - saying that lab was a joke supporting the idea that low paid workers pay tax to pay the rich's child benefit...

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(Realistically he should probably have cancelled CB altogether and made it up to the poor in Child Tax Credits. Same fiscal effect, less drama.)

For which the income assessment infrastructure already exists and assesses family incomes.

I'm another who can't understand why this was not proposed (in preference to the details as announced).

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The thing is when in oppostion the Tories pretty much backed all the spending that was going on.....

So what? It's political suicide to oppose spending on 'schools and hospitals and the police and ejucashun' - when there isn't a crisis on the go.

And let's face, Gordon Brown had everyone convinced he knew what he was doing.

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For which the income assessment infrastructure already exists and assesses family incomes.

I'm another who can't understand why this was not proposed (in preference to the details as announced).

Yes it was like they'd had a bright idea but just lacked someone to join the dots for them.

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I don't know what is wrong with Cameron and his advisers. All he had to say is 'yes, it is not perfect, but it will work, it will save money and it is progressive. Unlike the party opposite we believe in implementing policies that will save money - not implement changes that cost more to administer than they save. The days of cloak and mirrors with numbers is over - it's not perfect but if the party opposite had not left the country up to its neck in debt, it wouldn't be necessary.'

The problem for them is of course that there is a limited amount of time during which they can pin this on the last lot.I think that by the end of the year people are going to be asking how long before their bright ideas start to show some results.The truth is of course that nobody knows which strategy is right - they all think that they do but that isn't the answer.Yesterday morning on R4 there was a programme about the 1921 cuts,which sounds very similar as Britain was dealing with debt from The Great War.There is some evidence that the cuts exacerbated the problem.

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+1

I just wished DC just gave a straight answer.

Straight answer?

He's a politician. They don't do straight answers.

I bet the fekker wouldn't even want to confirm 2+2=4

Shooting's too good for them.

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So what is the "straight answer"?

"The country's finances are in a mess that can hardly be exaggerated. We need to deal very firmly with the country's deficit. That means that we, the Government, are having to make some tough decisions; in fact, very many tough decisions. For every tough decision we make, there will almost certainly be members of the public who feel that they are being dealt a bad hand. In some cases, through some nasty trick of the way that existing systems happen to work (and the prohibitive cost of changing those systems), some people really will lose out in ways that, in an ideal world, they wouldn't have to. If there is ever a way to make any of these tough decisions such that perfect fairness is achievable, then we'll do our utmost to find that way. If we cannot, perhaps you, the Opposition, can suggest perfect ways that maybe we have missed. But, one way or another, whether perfect schemes are found or not, we have to get the country's over-spending under control in order that we all, in due course, will be able to enjoy future growth and prosperity without throwing away so much of our money in order only to service our national debt. I look forward to any constructive assistance you can offer."

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I don't know what is wrong with Cameron and his advisers. All he had to say is 'yes, it is not perfect, but it will work, it will save money and it is progressive. Unlike the party opposite we believe in implementing policies that will save money - not implement changes that cost more to administer than they save. The days of cloak and mirrors with numbers is over - it's not perfect but if the party opposite had not left the country up to its neck in debt, it wouldn't be necessary.'

+1

Sorry...

Hear hear.

Edited by Stickleback
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"The country's finances are in a mess that can hardly be exaggerated. We need to deal very firmly with the country's deficit. That means that we, the Government, are having to make some tough decisions; in fact, very many tough decisions. For every tough decision we make, there will almost certainly be members of the public who feel that they are being dealt a bad hand. In some cases, through some nasty trick of the way that existing systems happen to work (and the prohibitive cost of changing those systems), some people really will lose out in ways that, in an ideal world, they wouldn't have to. If there is ever a way to make any of these tough decisions such that perfect fairness is achievable, then we'll do our utmost to find that way. If we cannot, perhaps you, the Opposition, can suggest perfect ways that maybe we have missed. But, one way or another, whether perfect schemes are found or not, we have to get the country's over-spending under control in order that we all, in due course, will be able to enjoy future growth and prosperity without throwing away so much of our money in order only to service our national debt. I look forward to any constructive assistance you can offer."

*applause for the right honourable gentleman*

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The problem for them is of course that there is a limited amount of time during which they can pin this on the last lot.I think that by the end of the year people are going to be asking how long before their bright ideas start to show some results.The truth is of course that nobody knows which strategy is right - they all think that they do but that isn't the answer.Yesterday morning on R4 there was a programme about the 1921 cuts,which sounds very similar as Britain was dealing with debt from The Great War.There is some evidence that the cuts exacerbated the problem.

The limited time should be until we have paid off the debt the last government borrowed and spent irresponsibly.

The reality is that as governments never pay off debt it is likely to be until we have infalted it away.

But politically it is probably a year or two.

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