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arrgee1991

Tuition Fees

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8057347/Lord-Browne-review-the-key-points-explained.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8058548/Lord-Browne-review-the-strong-must-pay-their-fair-share-of-university-tuition-fees.html

Even if the House Price Crash occurs, will it matter ?

"interest of about 2 per cent more than inflation on their debts"

With inflation at 3-5% at present, and every prospect of rising, and fees at up to £20K, students could be leaving university paying 10% on a £100K. For up to 30 years!

How could you pay any sort of mortgage on top of that?

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The short answer is that graduates will be impoverished unless they are from a wealthy family.

Given that graduates are on average, waiting three and a half years before they get a decent job (BBCreport last night), and with the debt compounding, the amount to be repaid will be horrendous.

As the degree grades are meaningless, and major employers now using their own testing, and for anyone who has been in a decent job for a year or two, employers are not interested in the degree, more what you can do, HE becomes much less relevant..

This issue will define the LibDems. Their opposition to fees garnered many votes for them. Clearly, if they back these proposals they will lose any moral right they may have to their parliamentary seats.

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I think it's reached the point where university just isn't worth it anymore.

The idea that it will get you an extra £400k over your lifetime is basd on out of date figures when the top 5% went on to higher education and on to high flying carreers.

These days it seems that for all but the very few the possession of a degree is a marginal benefit at best in the job market and a distant second place to experience and ability.

It's not just the £40k debt that's the problem, it's the 3 years of lost earnings and 3 years of lost experience. Hooray, you've come out with a degree, but your classmate who left after A-levels has been working for the last 3 years and has £10k savings, makes more money than you and has spent the time learning stuff that is actually relevant to the job.

So thanks to Labour's insane attempt to extend participation to everyone it's likely that HE will become the exclusive preserve of the upper middle classes who can afford ot subsidise their kids plus the tiny fraction of the ultra poor who will qualify for free tuition and actually have the ability to write their own name.

The remaining 98% of us can forget about it.

Edit to say: This isn't a ConLib problem - this is a huge f*** up by the idiots who've spent the last 13 years driving the country into bankruptcy.

Edited by Goat

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There is going to be vast amount of horse trading before this is over. The Browne Review is like the opening move of the chess game. But yes, if the demand is there for 40% plus participation in HE, then I'd say that is a massive game changer for the housing market, particularly as the report suggests universities should not be obliged to offer bursaries on top of the grant.

The report is here:

http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore/corporate/docs/s/10-1208-securing-sustainable-higher-education-browne-report.pdf

I think we'll be waiting a while for the smoke to clear on this one, but costs will increase for your average student IMHO.

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Unsubsidised university education is obviously going to mean "better" more prestigious uni's will gain

any free market policy will mean a massive cull in higher education, there way to expensive for wc kids.

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It's not just the £40k debt that's the problem, it's the 3 years of lost earnings and 3 years of lost experience. Hooray, you've come out with a degree, but your classmate who left after A-levels has been working for the last 3 years and has £10k savings, makes more money than you and has spent the time learning stuff that is actually relevant to the job.

That is providing of course that the class mate actually manages to gain half decent employment in the first place. There's a reason why (despite tuition fees) there are record numbers of applicants to HE, and it isn't the quality of education or outcome.

But yes, your main point is valid. New Labour's record of destroying social mobility in this country is a proud one.

P.S. Your £10k saved over three years is stretching it a bit.

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And don't forget at the other end of the "career" when after 50 finding work (never mind equivalent work) for anyone including graduates of that age is a struggle.

It wouldn't matter quite so much if house prices were reasonable.

Edited by billybong

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I think it's reached the point where university just isn't worth it anymore.

Agreed. I'm really pro education - for it's own sake and as an earning tool, but even I would be verging on the side of advising my kids to do something else with their time and money at these levels.

Study in another country or 3 years of travel spring instantly to mind if appropriate on the job training cannot be secured.

So thanks to Labour's insane attempt to extend participation to everyone it's likely that HE will become the exclusive preserve of the upper middle classes who can afford ot subsidise their kids plus the tiny fraction of the ultra poor who will qualify for free tuition and actually have the ability to write their own name.

The attempt to widen participation has ended up making it less accessible within just a few short years. What a shame.

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And don't forget at the other end of the "career" when after 50 finding work (never mind equivalent work) for anyone including graduates of that age is a struggle.

It wouldn't matter quite so much if house prices were reasonable.

a very good point. You could find yourself in the situation where you've finally paid off your student debt, before being thrown on the scrap heap.

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Eton Dave and co talk a good game on competition.

However, they don't really want their kids to compete (fairly / same set of rules for all) with cleverer, but poorer kids

The aim of this policy is to REDUCE social mobility.

The poor will be priced out of the Russell Group. That'll be great for Tim nice, but dim though won't it? Just like the old days in fact where only the rich and well-connected were able to go to places like Oxford and Cambridge.

The working classes need to be put in their place don't you know!

Sadly, the UK appears to be moving from a class system towards an Indian style caste system. Or putting it another way, Britain is moving (back) towards a feudal society.

What really gets my goat is these people have the nerve to claim that they like competition - just like the cry baby bankers who want all their losses socialised and paid for by us, muggins taxpayer.

Dave might not get away with it though. Eventually the peasants will revolt.

Edited by Arbitrage

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It's a mess. The kids will be paying off:

- graduate debt

- govt debt

- boomer pensions

- record house prices

I don't think it's possible. I feel really bad for the kids of today. They've been sold down the river

with massive debts (not of their own making) and a p*ss poor education.

I read something on the US education costs and how they spiralled as soon as the debt was controlled by

the govt. No-one cares what the price of the education is or what it's worth, simply price it at the

amount of debt the govt will supply (like housing). All the govt care about is GDP growth which for them

equates to increased debt and low cost imports. Total mess.

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It's a mess. The kids will be paying off:

- graduate debt

- govt debt

- boomer pensions

- record house prices

I don't think it's possible. I feel really bad for the kids of today. They've been sold down the river

with massive debts (not of their own making) and a p*ss poor education.

I read something on the US education costs and how they spiralled as soon as the debt was controlled by

the govt. No-one cares what the price of the education is or what it's worth, simply price it at the

amount of debt the govt will supply (like housing). All the govt care about is GDP growth which for them

equates to increased debt and low cost imports. Total mess.

Yes, they (the youth of today) have been sold down the river, but I'm sure they'll figure out a solution.

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Yes, they (the youth of today) have been sold down the river, but I'm sure they'll figure out a solution.

Yes, it'll be called "Don't go to uni, unless you are that brainy". The market will sort itself out, given time.

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It's a mess. The kids will be paying off:

- graduate debt

- govt debt

- boomer pensions

- record house prices

I don't think it's possible. I feel really bad for the kids of today. They've been sold down the river

with massive debts (not of their own making) and a p*ss poor education.

I read something on the US education costs and how they spiralled as soon as the debt was controlled by

the govt. No-one cares what the price of the education is or what it's worth, simply price it at the

amount of debt the govt will supply (like housing). All the govt care about is GDP growth which for them

equates to increased debt and low cost imports. Total mess.

why would smart kids with in demand skills stay in the UK in this scenario, they wouldnt basically assuming they are smart. The UK will just lose a generation of intellect furthuring its decline. As it goes i doubt its much to worry about i think all 4 are going to be effectively wiped out to easily manageable levels over the coming few years

Edited by Tamara De Lempicka

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What would be the best thing for a 17 year old to do these days?

Depends, as you are fortunate enough to be part of the EU, you have plenty of other options of places to go and educate yourself.

What does it cost for a British student (for example) to go to university in France or Germany? If it was me and higher education was about to be cut 75%, I would look at my nation's priorities and think about my options.

You have alot more than you think, just not all here in the UK.

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That is providing of course that the class mate actually manages to gain half decent employment in the first place. There's a reason why (despite tuition fees) there are record numbers of applicants to HE, and it isn't the quality of education or outcome.

But yes, your main point is valid. New Labour's record of destroying social mobility in this country is a proud one.

Things are tough at the moment but generally there's usually decent oportunities out there for bright, motivated A-level students.

And if you're not bright and motivated what's the point in taking on £40,000 debt so that you can get a job in a call centre afterwards.

P.S. Your £10k saved over three years is stretching it a bit.

Depends on circumstances, if you're living with parents and pick up a half decent starting job then it should be pretty easy to get up to say £25k salary after 3 years, we're only talking about saving £250 per month here.

Even if you spend it all on booze and partying you're still £40k + interest better off.

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It's a mess. The kids will be paying off:

- graduate debt

- govt debt

- boomer pensions

- record house prices

Another way of looking at it is that they won't be able to afford all of those so something is going to give.

Graduate debt is going to go up (if this story is to be believed). The number of people entering higher education will go down but not by much as it will be seen as the price of playing the game. Get a degree and you're in with a chance (even if small) of a higher paid job but don't and you're definitely out of the running.

Government debt depends on the shape of government spending

Boomer pensions are pretty much set - you can play around at the edges by raising the retirement age but not by much

Leaving house prices. I can envisage a scenario where house prices fall below the long run income multiple average as a result of this.

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A man on radio 4 this afternoon had a fantastic idea, tax the companies per graduate they employ.

they already pay a "tax" in that they have to pay more for graduates.

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Truly the younger gen (including me) are being, and will continue to be, absolutely shafted on an epic scale.

I was lucky enough to pay no fees as I studied in Scotland - but if I were in England I would not go to uni with these announcements, even to do a worthwhile degree like mine. I think it's scandalous - would definitely force the poorer out of education (I'm from poor working class yet I was top of class as I had the drive to improve myself).

It's sad. Again, I'm only still here for the job.... everybody else, get out while you can.

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  • 239 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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