Buy To Let Critique By Faisal Islam On Channel 4 News Now

[Si1]

you make a lot of assumptions - for me it's an alternative to the negative real yield I get with it sitting in the bank. As I intend to hold it for 10 years, I couldn't give a shit if prices continue to fall after I've purchased, I'm not going to flip it in six months in a falling market. So if it yields me more than inflation over that period, how am I worse off as far as the income stream is concerned? As for the capital, maybe I'll make money, stay even or lose some of it - as it will be in 10 years I don't know and neither do you.

you've just confirmed my point. you don't have a clue. your ill-constructed words barely conceal this.

[Kyoto]

HPC and PricedOut have a friend and his name is Faisal Islam.

That was one mega fuc.king report against BTL and while it was 5 years too late (at least) it was nice to hear at least 2 journalists in the MSM fighting our corner or at least acknowledging that there is a problem that needs to be addressed.

That's not how I saw it at all - verged on pro BTL from what I could see.

[Brave New World]

No no no! He is the first government minister that said that HP doubling was a problem! (That I can recall) This is historical!

And stupid John Snow interrupted heim on a crucial moment! Arrrgh!!!

Thank you, thought my painkillers for my broken arm was making me imagine something unimaginable a few months ago. Criticism of hpi, a minister and by association agoverment line marking it out as a negative force. an indication of less support for it perhaps..........................is that the sound of further props being kicked away?

[Tired of Waiting]

you make a lot of assumptions - for me it's an alternative to the negative real yield I get with it sitting in the bank. As I intend to hold it for 10 years, I couldn't give a shit if prices continue to fall after I've purchased, I'm not going to flip it in six months in a falling market. So if it yields me more than inflation over that period, how am I worse off as far as the income stream is concerned? As for the capital, maybe I'll make money, stay even or lose some of it - as it will be in 10 years I don't know and neither do you.

Do "invest", with a large deposit, please. Our banks do need some cushioning.

[Blod]

not really - the boomers had numbers on their side, we don't

Except that the boomers aren’t “floating” voters, and that makes our votes politically very important.

[gnosis]

you've just confirmed my point. you don't have a clue. your ill-constructed words barely conceal this.

In other words you can't answer how I would be worse off given the criteria I outlined

[Tired of Waiting]

you've just confirmed my point. you don't have a clue. your ill-constructed words barely conceal this.

Si1, please, let him "invest" in this market...

[Si1]

In other words you can't answer how I would be worse off given the criteria I outlined

for me it's an alternative to the negative real yield I get with it sitting in the bank.

your yield calculation is very very crude, full of assumptions

As I intend to hold it for 10 years, I couldn't give a shit if prices continue to fall after I've purchased, I'm not going to flip it in six months in a falling market.

so?

So if it yields me more than inflation over that period,

err, it won't. again you don't understand yield. yields must necessarily be higher on property to justiufy the fact they are an active business with focussed risk. you will lose against other investments yielding more. this is a real terms loss. comparing to cash, which everyone knows is toast, is selective. face it, you just can't help yourself.

As for the capital, maybe I'll make money, stay even or lose some of it - as it will be in 10 years I don't know and neither do you.

saying 'nobody knows' as some sort of justification for investing in an asset is simple stupidity. No recognised succesful investor, and I mean none, has ever made money long term this way.

[Liquid Goldfish]

All the BTLers interviewed seemed pretty thick.

Anyone think the same?

[Blod]

Sounds like a certain poster on this thread wishes to become gristle for the grinder.

Edited October 11, 2010 by Blod

[Si1]

All the BTLers interviewed seemed pretty thick.

Anyone think the same?

well i didn't see it, but the BTLr I just interviewed seemed pretty thick

out of 4 BTLrs I have know over the past 10 years, one of them has not touched ther market since 2004 and is a sharp bloke advised me to steer clear of buying, the other stayed fully invested and advised me to get into the game - two lorry drivers, one hairdresser

[Stars]

All the BTLers interviewed seemed pretty thick.

Anyone think the same?

I don't think i have ever met anyone involved in property as a business who challenged my expectations of them

Property is mostly 'professional standing still', it attracts a certain sort.

[montesquieu]

Get real you people, Shapps is a complete tosser, don't forget he's the guy that canned the landlord regulation scheme, on the grounds that the sector was over-regulated and should'nt be strangled with 'red tape' (yes, ground-breaking discourse isn't it - so original). He's Keith Joseph's ******* granchild.

[Blod]

well i didn't see it, but the BTLr I just interviewed seemed pretty thick

out of 4 BTLrs I have know over the past 10 years, one of them has not touched ther market since 2004 and is a sharp bloke advised me to steer clear of buying, the other stayed fully invested and advised me to get into the game - two lorry drivers, one hairdresser

+1

The classic Joseph Kennedy observation just before the markets failed in 1929.

[Liquid Goldfish]

It's too hard for my brain

When all the low end properties, say 2 bed terraces, have been bought by BTLs.

The original owners of these properties will have presumably traded up to the next rung on the ladder, say 3 bed semis

What happens to these higher rungs when there's no homeowners on the boom rung who can trade up?

Will all the higher levels come down in price?

[neil324]

It's too hard for my brain

When all the low end properties, say 2 bed terraces, have been bought by BTLs.

The original owners of these properties will have presumably traded up to the next rung on the ladder, say 3 bed semis

What happens to these higher rungs when there's no homeowners on the boom rung who can trade up?

Will all the higher levels come down in price?

BTL will then start to hoover up the next rung off the ladder also.

[Liquid Goldfish]

well i didn't see it, but the BTLr I just interviewed seemed pretty thick

out of 4 BTLrs I have know over the past 10 years, one of them has not touched ther market since 2004 and is a sharp bloke advised me to steer clear of buying, the other stayed fully invested and advised me to get into the game - two lorry drivers, one hairdresser

Good point.

I know a few people who made lots out of student lettings and BTL starting in the early/mid 90s and they were all sharp

Nothing like the people that Faisal interviewed

[Si1]

Good point.

I know a few people who made lots out of student lettings and BTL starting in the early/mid 90s and they were all sharp

Nothing like the people that Faisal interviewed

yep - the first one I mentioned is a pretty experienced bloke in a good job, approx 50 y.o., did exactly that, applying sensible conservative investment criteria - ie invested in student and professional property lets in mid-90s, bought to hold at a low price and din't overcommit or very highly leverage, fine by me

[Liquid Goldfish]

BTL will then start to hoover up the next rung off the ladder also.

yes, that could happen

I've heard that yields quickly get worse though as you go higher, e.g. the rent for a 3 bed semi might be little more than that on a 2 bed terrace, even if the price is double.

[Si1]

yes, that could happen

I've heard that yields quickly get worse though as you go higher, e.g. the rent for a 3 bed semi might be little more than that on a 2 bed terrace, even if the price is double.

but the tennants become more long term and responsible, therefore lower risk and lower maintenance costs

[Liquid Goldfish]

It's immensely frustrating that the CML stopped public access to the data on mortgages two years ago, where we could see exactly the number of BTLs that existed

But that graph Faisal showed seemed to show have kept growing linearly with hardly a blip.

Now at 1.3 million, he said

Does anyone know if BTLs are recorded in any of the monthly mortgage and sales stats we use such as BoE, LR and CML

[Smashy]

Get real you people, Shapps is a complete tosser, don't forget he's the guy that canned the landlord regulation scheme, on the grounds that the sector was over-regulated and should'nt be strangled with 'red tape' (yes, ground-breaking discourse isn't it - so original). He's Keith Joseph's ******* granchild.

Yup. As further proof of this I met the ass at the Conservative conference - at the National Landlords Assoc gathering in fact!!

And no I am not BTL LL scum should anyone here have any doubt, it was more a case of know thine enemy. :angry: Anyway, I pulled him to one side after the gathering and asked him if they were ready for/expecting a proper crash - 20/30% etc. and he glibly replied that he didn't think that it was likely, because the crash has happened and that prices would now be stable..

I'm convinced the coalition dont have any kind of well thought out plan for sorting out the market out in a sustainable way.

Maybe its time for direct action - anyone up for a firebombing campaign against BTL properties?

[Si1]

And no I am not BTL LL scum should anyone here have any doubt, it was more a case of know thine enemy. :angry: Anyway, I pulled him to one side after the gathering and asked him if they were ready for/expecting a proper crash - 20/30% etc. and he glibly replied that he didn't think that it was likely, because the crash has happened and that prices would now be stable..

despite beinghousing minister, this is a question for the chancellor and the govnr of the BoE - i doubt Grant Shapps would be able to persuade Osborne to prop up housing benefits. If he hasn't a clue then maybe that is best for him.

[Smashy]

despite beinghousing minister, this is a question for the chancellor and the govnr of the BoE - i doubt Grant Shapps would be able to persuade Osborne to prop up housing benefits. If he hasn't a clue then maybe that is best for him.

Quite - but I was still very suprised that he didn't have more to say. In reality BTL or no BTL, the housing market is likely to be a function of other steps that the government feels it has to take, but even at junior minister level there should be more thinking about what the overall policy intentions are and what may happen next..

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Quite - but I was still very suprised that he didn't have more to say. In reality BTL or no BTL, the housing market is likely to be a function of other steps that the government feels it has to take, but even at junior minister level there should be more thinking about what the overall policy intentions are and what may happen next..

But don't they NEED BTL after selling off lots of council stock in the 80s/90s. I assume they don't want to scare the horses but do want to lower their costs.