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500,000 'fit To Work' Sick Pay Claimants Will Be Forced Back Into Employment

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The point is they won't be "forced back into jobs" as there ain't many! :blink:

They may be forced into "going through the motions" of applying for jobs, and I have been there too! :huh:

exactly. There aint the jobs

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If there aint the jobs then why are there 7m immigrants? There are jobs for people cleaning hospitals - so many we have to import labor from nigeria to do the work.

As i have said before, all this talk about cutting benefits, getting people off the dole, getting invalidity claiments back to work is just a load of tosh, there ain't the jobs. And yet they want the working sector to retire later which will make the job market even worse.

It is all a smoke screen to apease the working people who will have to work longer, take wage cuts(in the term) pay more taxes.

Going back to the eighties it was the conservatives who allowed thousands of workers including redundant steel workers and miners to go onto invalidity to make the unemployment figures look attractive.

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Look at it another way. If the skivers, and I have met quite a few imo, weren't on incapacity benefit, then there would be more money in the pot for truly sick to receive a higher, more liveable, rate of benefit.

Surely they would be on the dole?

Reading the DM article it sounds like there will be a time limit on incapacity benefit even for those that are too sick to work

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Surely they would be on the dole?

Reading the DM article it sounds like there will be a time limit on incapacity benefit even for those that are too sick to work

What the people who have to cut will do is throw the genuine cases off their list, as as to create a media furore at such callousness and therefore (they hope) secure funding for their department going forward.

Chucking a few terminal cancer sufferers or flipper handed chemical accident victims into direct penury will work wonders for the incomes of those who administer and they do not give a shit what misery occurs while they secure that income.

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Disability iI should point out, is not an absolute. People with mental health issues for example, do get significantly better, but until employers are prepared to give them a chance, their employment prospects, because of their illness, are nil.

Employers should be banned from asking people's medical history, and a "don't ask, don't tell" policy in effect, if these people are to have a chance in the job market.

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If there aint the jobs then why are there 7m immigrants? There are jobs for people cleaning hospitals - so many we have to import labor from nigeria to do the work.

Because with currency arbitrage those people are getting paid 4x domestic wages.

If there was another country easily accessible where you could go to and earn the equivalent of 60 or 70k a year wiping up snot you'd find our "lazy" developing a work ethic asap.

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What the people who have to cut will do is throw the genuine cases off their list, as as to create a media furore at such callousness and therefore (they hope) secure funding for their department going forward.

Chucking a few terminal cancer sufferers or flipper handed chemical accident victims into direct penury will work wonders for the incomes of those who administer and they do not give a shit what misery occurs while they secure that income.

+1

Another knurd vision of reality from Injin.

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Employers should be banned from asking people's medical history, and a "don't ask, don't tell" policy in effect, if these people are to have a chance in the job market.

They'd still have a gap on their employment record that would have to be explained.

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They'd still have a gap on their employment record that would have to be explained.

True, but then how do you solve this catch 22?

A lot of disabled end up going to work in the public sector because of this problem, and then people wonder why people in the public sector take so many sick days compared to the private.

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Chucking a few terminal cancer sufferers or flipper handed chemical accident victims into direct penury will work wonders for the incomes of those who administer and they do not give a shit what misery occurs while they secure that income.

Yes

Aside from the fact that it is proposed government policy to limit benefit to those unable to work - it will not be by accident but by design that the most desperate and poorest are thrown into abject poverty by our eton educated overlords

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True, but then how do you solve this catch 22?

A lot of disabled end up going to work in the public sector because of this problem, and then people wonder why people in the public sector take so many sick days compared to the private.

You cannot change this attitude without changing human nature. Sad, but that is just the way of the world.

Just pray that you don't fall on hard times as our current world is not particularly understanding.

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"Where are all the jobs?"

Well, given that we've been through a period of record high employment / record low unemployment (allegedly, and thanks to a fair bit of book-flddiling by the last Government)...

.. and given that the long term IB recipients were around during that time...

You'd have to conclude that, genuine disabilities aside, people are only long term unemployed through nothing other than choice.

They could have got jobs during the boom years and helped secure their own future.

The only solution is to remove the option of choice. It is morally the only right thing to do. There are people going out to work earning minimum wage and paying taxes to support a tranche of people who simply won't (not can't) get off their backsides.

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"Where are all the jobs?"

Well, given that we've been through a period of record high employment / record low unemployment (allegedly, and thanks to a fair bit of book-flddiling by the last Government)...

.. and given that the long term IB recipients were around during that time...

You'd have to conclude that, genuine disabilities aside, people are only long term unemployed through nothing other than choice.

They could have got jobs during the boom years and helped secure their own future.

The only solution is to remove the option of choice. It is morally the only right thing to do. There are people going out to work earning minimum wage and paying taxes to support a tranche of people who simply won't (not can't) get off their backsides.

They aren't.

They are going out and working minimum wage to support landlords, the state, corporate profits, the administrators of the benefits system and then finally a few quid to the actual clamants in that order.

Really simple question -

What happens to you if you do some cash in hand work for your neighbour and get caught?

Is it worth the risk?

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They aren't.

They are going out and working minimum wage to support landlords, the state, corporate profits, the administrators of the benefits system and then finally a few quid to the actual clamants in that order.

That's a bit of an extrapolation (they might have mortgages for instance). Though I know precisely where you're coming from - welcome to the UK Plc. Tha bank bailout was a significant step and where everyone can clearly see who runs the country - that being the group that wields the power not the people who shuffle a bit of cash from one department to another.

However that doesn't have anything to do with the moral aspect.

The other thing that irks me is the bit about these people being "forced into work". No, nobody is forcing them into work. They can choose not to work if they like. That's up to them. There might be some scraps of food in our dustbin. It simply means that other people and I stop paying for them.

Really simple question -

What happens to you if you do some cash in hand work for your neighbour and get caught?

Is it worth the risk?

That doesn't have a lot to do with IB.

I'm pretty confident about my own accounting, though if examined with a fine toothcomb there could be a few things I haven't declared. That's because in general your point is valid, the consequences are severe, but then they have to be, otherwise everyone would fiddle their tax and incomes.

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23% of new claimants fail the test...

I think people should be thrown off the sick and if they manage to claim a benefit afterwards then they were fit for work...

If they die because they have no care/money then maybe they needed the money.

I know lots of people who are or have been on the sick. Whether or not they are capable of work - virtually all of them lead normal lives.

Two people on my street have free cars. They are no more sick than me!

We have bought people up to think being on the sick forever is fine. It's not. We're skint and I don't want people to be having a brand new car every three years at MY EXPENSE.

ALL sick claimants need to take rehabilitation steps to keep their benefits.

junkies need to be clean, alkies, sober, depressives need to have counselling and meds, broken people need mending.

If they don't want their treatment they should get no money.

The 'junkies and alkies' are generally the depressed ones. 'Meds' a.k.a. drugs ain't going to solve addiction. Change an addicion, maybe.

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There might be some scraps of food in our dustbin. It simply means that other people and I stop paying for them.

There is also that nice, shiny telly in the lounge that they could get a few quid for down the pub

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There is also that nice, shiny telly in the lounge that they could get a few quid for down the pub

A few quid quite literally - it's about 6 years old and just predates the explosion of plasmas.

There's also the rather large pair of flowerpots at the top of the stairs which it dawns on me might be useful in that situation, and we and our neighbours together are the ultimate form of unspoken "neighbourhood watch" - nothing happens round here without someone noticing, people really do look out for each other. Mind you nothing much does happen round here, since it's rural.

I know where you're going with that, but that doesn't mean that the moral aspect of allowing people to sponge off of others should be permitted to continue in case they "strike back".

I predict a fair number of riots.

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A few quid quite literally - it's about 6 years old and just predates the explosion of plasmas.

There's also the rather large pair of flowerpots at the top of the stairs which it dawns on me might be useful in that situation, and we and our neighbours together are the ultimate form of unspoken "neighbourhood watch" - nothing happens round here without someone noticing, people really do look out for each other. Mind you nothing much does happen round here, since it's rural.

I know where you're going with that, but that doesn't mean that the moral aspect of allowing people to sponge off of others should be permitted to continue in case they "strike back".

I predict a fair number of riots.

Always keep the chip pan hot. You never know when you will need some boiling oil to pour over invaders/bailiffs from your kid's bedroom on the second floor.

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I don't think anyone can argue against ensuring that people only claim benefits they are entitled to receive and that they should be a safety net and not provide a luxurious life.

The main problem is the GETTING A JOB bit, there are 8 million economically inactive not 1.65m unemployed and many of the economically inactive do not receive any benefits. Where are all these jobs?

500,000 jobs advertised in the job centres. About 1/3 of jobs never make it to the job centre and are advertised elsewhere.

You have to be pretty twisted to believe people would rather remain ill than get better just to claim beneits

You should visit Ardwick sometime.

...who are entitled to this...?....the very least they should be restricted to buying 'Made in UK'...... :rolleyes:

Someone's explained thebenefit.

I hope for your sake you are trolling - what a ridiculous statement to make!

You have seen their medical records?

Newsflash brainac - not all conditions are cureable! You seriously think that someone with multiple sclerosis or cystic fibrosis is sitting there with their fingers crossed that no cure is found so they can live it up on the 80 odd quid a week that they get?

.

I can see how well someone walks, moves, talks, manages every day. They're in better health than me almost and I work.

I don't care what you have but if you can get up, walk, use a computer, shop, visit friends, cook, eat and clean then you are fit enough for work.

I know people with "serious" illnesses who take long walks, visit lots of different cities in the UK, go out regularly socially - are they really too sick to be looking for work?

Those who think I'm just plain horrid should go and live in Ardwick for 6 months and immerse them selves in the lives of long term sickies there.

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500,000 jobs advertised in the job centres. About 1/3 of jobs never make it to the job centre and are advertised elsewhere.

You should visit Ardwick sometime.

Someone's explained thebenefit.

I can see how well someone walks, moves, talks, manages every day. They're in better health than me almost and I work.

I don't care what you have but if you can get up, walk, use a computer, shop, visit friends, cook, eat and clean then you are fit enough for work.

I know people with "serious" illnesses who take long walks, visit lots of different cities in the UK, go out regularly socially - are they really too sick to be looking for work?

Those who think I'm just plain horrid should go and live in Ardwick for 6 months and immerse them selves in the lives of long term sickies there.

I know of a couple of people whom are on these benefits, both get new cars that their wives drive around, both do cash in hand jobs and both are serial takers,

One of them works the system perfectly and had another kid just to get a bigger house.

I wouldn't be upset for them to be told to get a proper job rather than coining £200-£300 cash a week on top of all their benefits

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I know of a couple of people whom are on these benefits, both get new cars that their wives drive around, both do cash in hand jobs and both are serial takers,

One of them works the system perfectly and had another kid just to get a bigger house.

I wouldn't be upset for them to be told to get a proper job rather than coining £200-£300 cash a week on top of all their benefits

Which, as has already been pointed out, they don't actually recieve.

It's not a solution to a massive state, pointless amounts of regulation, inflation and currency manipulation to demand people work harder (at some undefined, unknown and more or less unpaid task, mark you.)

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If there aint the jobs then why are there 7m immigrants? There are jobs for people cleaning hospitals - so many we have to import labor from nigeria to do the work.

The jobs are there it's just employers prefer to give them to foreigners who will work harder because things might be tougher in their own country, and they can save money before moving back to their home country.

When it comes to cheap manual labour work, and now increasingly IT too- many companies prefer employing foreigners as they are cheaper and work harder. It's as simple as that, not to mention many of them get around minimum wage by using employment agencies which illegally take a portion of the migrant workers pay through inflated rental costs like paying exortionate amounts just to share a bedroom in a house.

So the factories end up on paper paying these agencies a certain amount e.g. minimum wage but then there is probably some backhanding going on ie money being handed back to the factory so they actually get labour under minimum wage which works 2-3x harder than a British person would in a factory. It's no surprise they hate British workers.

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The jobs are there it's just employers prefer to give them to foreigners who will work harder because things might be tougher in their own country, and they can save money before moving back to their home country.

When it comes to cheap manual labour work, and now increasingly IT too- many companies prefer employing foreigners as they are cheaper and work harder. It's as simple as that, not to mention many of them get around minimum wage by using employment agencies which illegally take a portion of the migrant workers pay through inflated rental costs like paying exortionate amounts just to share a bedroom in a house.

So the factories end up on paper paying these agencies a certain amount e.g. minimum wage but then there is probably some backhanding going on ie money being handed back to the factory so they actually get labour under minimum wage which works 2-3x harder than a British person would in a factory. It's no surprise they hate British workers.

Cheaper?

Yes.

Better paid?

Also yes.

Good old rents, mortgages, tax and currency arbitrage!

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Which, as has already been pointed out, they don't actually recieve.

It's not a solution to a massive state, pointless amounts of regulation, inflation and currency manipulation to demand people work harder (at some undefined, unknown and more or less unpaid task, mark you.)

These people are claiming they are unable to work, get Incapacity benefit, assisted housing and mobility cars and yet they do cash in hand work as well.

Their kids have everything they need and then some

The part that concerns me is their attitude which no doubt their kids will inherit

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  • 195 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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