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Tired of Waiting

Housing Benefits Are Based On Info From Landlords And Lettings Agents!

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As we know, in the current system Housing Benefits are set at the "mid-point" of the local rental market. This then becomes the new floor, pushing the average up. Repeat every year, and you obviously have increasing rents. Stupid as stupid gets.

Moreover, as HBs guaranteed a rental floor, they also guaranteed a HP floor, via a guaranteed yield! This is important!

Thankfully the new coalition government realised this absurdity, and will try to curb it: "From October 2011 rents will be set at the 30 percentile level of local rents." (Source: Scared Landlords :lol: Here: http://blog.propertyhawk.co.uk/2010/06/lha-budget-bombshell.html )

HOWEVER, there is another BIG problem. And I don't know if the coalition will do anything about it.

WHO will research this 30 percentile? Currently: "The rental information is provided to Rent Officers by landlords, lettings agents and tenants."

:o

:(

Will the coalition keep this???!!! FGS.

("and tenants"? Really? Do they really research tenants?)

http://www.voa.gov.uk/fair_rent/Documents/100810_rent_offficer_and_local_housing_allowance_%20fact_sheet_PRINT.pdf

How is the LHA calculated?

Rent Officers determine the LHA rates using a list of rents created for each category of property within every BRMA. The list is made up of rents that are paid for private sector tenancies. Each list is a representative sample of the rents across the BRMA, including those

from the lower end through to the upper ends of each rental market.

The rental information is provided to Rent Officers by landlords, lettings agents and tenants.

The LHA is determined by taking the mid-point, or median, of the list of rents for each LHA property category. For example, if the list has 101 rents listed by rental value the mid-point will be the 51st rent down the list. This is the LHA. The LHA rates may vary from month to month as they track increases and decreases in the rental market within each BRMA.

A graph showing the list of rents and the median LHAs for each BRMA can be found on: https://lha-direct.voa.gov.uk.

Edited by Tired of Waiting

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As we know, in the current system Housing Benefits are set at the "mid-point" of the local rental market. This then becomes the new floor, pushing the average up. Repeat every year, and you obviously have increasing rents. Stupid as stupid gets.

Thankfully the new coalition government realised this absurdity, and will try to curb it: "From October 2011 rents will be set at the 30 percentile level of local rents." (Source: Scared Landlords :lol: Here: http://blog.property...-bombshell.html )

HOWEVER, there is another BIG problem. And I don't know if the coalition will do anything about it.

WHO will research this 30 percentile? Currently: "The rental information is provided to Rent Officers by landlords, lettings agents and tenants."

:o

:(

Will the coalition keep this???!!! FGS.

("and tenants"? Really? Do they really research tenants?)

http://www.voa.gov.u...sheet_PRINT.pdf

Don't councils publish this somewhere? I do know a link was posted on here a while back.

For instance I tried once to establish the HB room rent level for Havering and once found it. But not been successful since!

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Don't councils publish this somewhere? I do know a link was posted on here a while back.

For instance I tried once to establish the HB room rent level for Havering and once found it. But not been successful since!

Yes, they publish the final benefits. I started a thread about it a few months back, with data from my area. ( Here: http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=143597&view=findpost&p=2535945 ) And I though the rents were too high. (They are weekly rents there, BTW.)

My point is that they shouldn't ask vested interest for this data. There should be some neutral way. And I doubt these local "officers" in local governments will investigate deeply if these letting agents and landlords are being really impartial, honest, and truthful... :rolleyes: It just... smells bad.

.

Edited by Tired of Waiting

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Didn't realise £85pw was a lot of money, considering it excludes bills, service charges etc. Of course that's if I'm actually eligible and get past the no DSS barrier of local landlords.

Maybe for 25+ and families it's overly generous, I'll agree there.

Edited by HPC001

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Don't councils publish this somewhere? I do know a link was posted on here a while back.

For instance I tried once to establish the HB room rent level for Havering and once found it. But not been successful since!

set annual rents for housing benefit purposes (pro rata) at 10% max of the price the property was bought for, as this is a figure that can not be made up by anyone

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Good comments on that page, I like the one from the landlord who said if HB is cut then landlords like him will just refuse to take DSS tenants. Guess what chum? There aren't enough working tenants to keep you all in clover, and working tenants frequently can't afford to pay HB-sized rents.

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Didn't realise £85pw was a lot of money, considering it excludes bills, service charges etc. Of course that's if I'm actually eligible and get past the no DSS barrier of local landlords.

Maybe for 25+ and families it's overly generous, I'll agree there.

I think they mean £85.15/week for 1 bedroom with shared "facilities". That is expensive. You can find self contained studios around here for less than that. And that exemplify my point. I think these rates are above the real medium. Not surprising really, if you ask letting agents and landlords fro the initial info.

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Good comments on that page, I like the one from the landlord who said if HB is cut then landlords like him will just refuse to take DSS tenants. Guess what chum? There aren't enough working tenants to keep you all in clover, and working tenants frequently can't afford to pay HB-sized rents.

Exactly!

They are deluded over there.

But we must make sure this HB reduction really happens. This will be key to bring both rents and HP down.

If these b@stards are allowed to "massage" the figures we'll keep being screwed.

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I think they mean £85.15/week for 1 bedroom with shared "facilities". That is expensive. You can find self contained studios around here for less than that. And that exemplify my point. I think these rates are above the real medium. Not surprising really, if you ask letting agents and landlords fro the initial info.

In West London? You tried checking out this area? Studios are £125 minimum...

Edited by HPC001

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In West London? You tried checking out this area? Studios are £125 minimum...

I think we are talking about different things. When you wrote £85 I thought you were talking about the first rate on the link I had posted above http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=143597&st=0&p=2535945entry2535945

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I think we are talking about different things. When you wrote £85 I thought you were talking about the first rate on the link I had posted above http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=143597&st=0&p=2535945entry2535945

£85pw for an area like Guildford isn't going to get you much. So I stand by the comment that the 16-24 rate is s***.

Edit: Look, all I'm saying is, I'm tired of this ageist crap, either scrap the lot entirely or make it a fixed amount regardless of age, with a sensible ceiling.

Edited by HPC001

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Here is my logic, FWIW

Take the minimum wage x 40hr working week this should be the max for 1 room

take 2x minimum wage x 40hr working week plus child benifit for 2 kids ( and other entiltments, not really sure what!) this should be the max for 3 bed house

Basically people doing f8$k all should not be at an advantage over people working hard at shit jobs to try and support their family!

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Here is my logic, FWIW

Take the minimum wage x 40hr working week this should be the max for 1 room

take 2x minimum wage x 40hr working week plus child benifit for 2 kids ( and other entiltments, not really sure what!) this should be the max for 3 bed house

Basically people doing f8$k all should not be at an advantage over people working hard at shit jobs to try and support their family!

You are not a member of the Shadow Cabinet and I claim my £5.

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£85pw for an area like Guildford isn't going to get you much. So I stand by the comment that the 16-24 rate is s***.

Edit: Look, all I'm saying is, I'm tired of this ageist crap, either scrap the lot entirely or make it a fixed amount regardless of age, with a sensible ceiling.

"Age"?! Where?! If there is a link with age here I honestly didn't realise it. Where, how?

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Here is my logic, FWIW

Take the minimum wage x 40hr working week this should be the max for 1 room

That's about £240pw, assuming pre-tax pay. Quite a leap up from the current values. You sure about that? I wouldn't complain personally, at least I could avoid being turfed out the minute I lose my next job :ph34r:

"Age"?! Where?! If there is a link with age here I honestly didn't realise it. Where, how?

Single room rent = maximum for a person aged 16-24. I apologise if that wasn't clear. I certainly can't go demanding £200 + a week in HB, I'd get laughed out of the building.

Edited by HPC001

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That's about £240pw, assuming pre-tax pay. Quite a leap up from the current values.

I thought SavingBear meant one week's NMW work should equal one month's HB rent for a single room.

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I thought SavingBear meant one week's NMW work should equal one month's HB rent for a single room.

There's absolutely sod all on the market for £240pcm around here, unless you want a shed. Also, did it not occur to you (and him\her) that working people were screwed over during the recession and need a little respite to find their next job? Even my suggestion of cutting the system would have to be in phases...

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There's absolutely sod all on the market for £240pcm around here, unless you want a shed. Also, did it not occur to you (and him\her) that working people were screwed over during the recession and need a little respite to find their next job? Even my suggestion of cutting the system would have to be in phases...

Yes you can't get a room for £240pcm now, but if HB rates were reduced to that over 5 years you would probably find rents at the bottom of the market falling in tandem. I really do think the government is the market when it comes to the cheapest rentals.

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Single room rent = maximum for a person aged 16-24. I apologise if that wasn't clear. I certainly can't go demanding £200 + a week in HB, I'd get laughed out of the building.

You mean there are different rules for people under 25?! If so, that is absurd too. And probably against EU anti-discrimination rules.

But back to HB levels, another problem is that we were trying to compare different things in different areas. shared facilities with a studio, Guildford with west London.

Let's see if we agree here: In the same area, Guildford, HB for a 1 Bed self cont is £172.60/week! That is £750/month! (x 4.3). For a 1 bedroom flat! We pay less here for a 2 bedroom flat. (OK, this area is a bit cheaper, but not that cheaper.)

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Yes you can't get a room for £240pcm now, but if HB rates were reduced to that over 5 years you would probably find rents at the bottom of the market falling in tandem. I really do think the government is the market when it comes to the cheapest rentals.

Judging by the last place I stayed in, there was plenty of competition. People were even offering above asking... dumb "professionals" with too much money on their hands still pay the rates for boxes I'm afraid. As I said, you won't find many DSS-friendly landlords in this part of town...

That aside, we seem to agree that the HB amounts overall need to go down, there is no question.

You mean there are different rules for people under 25?! If so, that is absurd too. And probably against EU anti-discrimination rules.

Been the case for some time, I found out the hard way back in 2005 or so.

But back to HB levels, another problem is that we were trying to compare different things in different areas. shared facilities with a studio, Guildford with west London.

Well the room rates are the same with HB which is what I referred to. Studios tend to come under the 1 bed flat category as they have facilities built in.

Let's see if we agree here: In the same area, Guildford, HB for a 1 Bed self cont is £172.60/week! That is £750/month! (x 4.3). For a 1 bedroom flat! We pay less here for a 2 bedroom flat. (OK, this area is a bit cheaper, but not that cheaper.)

Same with the West / Northwest London BRMAs as well. Seems excessive given that a 2 bed on the market is around £775-800pcm. If I had a partner again we'd be allowed a seperate bedroom each for no real reason :blink:

Edited by HPC001

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That's about £240pw, assuming pre-tax pay. Quite a leap up from the current values. You sure about that? I wouldn't complain personally, at least I could avoid being turfed out the minute I lose my next job :ph34r:

OK, fair point, so we take off tax and basic living costs off, Food, clothing, heating, etc

But the main piont stands

Basically people doing f8$k all should not be at an advantage over people working hard at shit jobs to try and support their family!

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OK, fair point, so we take off tax and basic living costs off, Food, clothing, heating, etc

Makes sense.

But the main piont stands

Basically people doing f8$k all should not be at an advantage over people working hard at shit jobs to try and support their family!

I don't disagree with the sentiment, in fact just for the record I've never been able to successfully claim housing benefit when employed (on low income) or indeed unemployed. The landlord always threw a spanner in the works when his signature was required to proceed.

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The fact that the average family income in an area struggles to house them is proof that HB has be set by the providers. That alone should have made this into a major political issue. Is the reason it’s not been that MPs have avoided housing costs and even benefited from them. Their record for avoiding CGT is hard to reconcile with the fact that they should be caring for their constituents interests not just the property industry.

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set annual rents for housing benefit purposes (pro rata) at 10% max of the price the property was bought for, as this is a figure that can not be made up by anyone

All this will achive is LLs with houses that they bought 5-10 years ago will not be let to HB tenants.

tim

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  • 238 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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