Third World America

[OnlyMe]

Too late to turn this around? Certainly with the policies being enacted at the moment there will be none.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/09/14/third-world-america/3/

Third world America

Collapsing bridges, street lights turned off, cuts to basic services: the decline of a superpower

by Luiza Ch. Savage on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 7:32am - 297 Comments

American jobs are being lost not only to low-wage competition from emerging economies, but to strategic policies by foreign governments to dominate critical sectors of the economy, or to keep their currency values low to promote exports. “Other countries recognize the importance of economies of scale and promote the development of certain industries, whether solar panels, or semiconductors, and we don’t,” says Prestowitz.

[Guest UK Debt Slave]

Too late to turn this around? Certainly with the policies being enacted at the moment there will be none.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/09/14/third-world-america/3/

Third world America

Collapsing bridges, street lights turned off, cuts to basic services: the decline of a superpower

by Luiza Ch. Savage on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 7:32am - 297 Comments

American jobs are being lost not only to low-wage competition from emerging economies, but to strategic policies by foreign governments to dominate critical sectors of the economy, or to keep their currency values low to promote exports. “Other countries recognize the importance of economies of scale and promote the development of certain industries, whether solar panels, or semiconductors, and we don’t,” says Prestowitz.

My wife is living the dream over there.

There are NO jobs other than flipping burgers and the cost of living is rapidly approaching that which we suffer here.

The only things cheaper are fuel and property taxes (in Oregon anyway) but even better paying jobs pay less than the equivalent here with none of the benefits, no paid holiday, extortionate healthcare insurance, etc etc so any savings savings made on cheaper fuel and prperty taxes are soon eaten up.

And if you get ill................you are fekked

[Liquid Goldfish]

My wife is living the dream over there.

There are NO jobs other than flipping burgers and the cost of living is rapidly approaching that which we suffer here.

The only things cheaper are fuel and property taxes (in Oregon anyway) but even better paying jobs pay less than the equivalent here with none of the benefits, no paid holiday, extortionate healthcare insurance, etc etc so any savings savings made on cheaper fuel and prperty taxes are soon eaten up.

And if you get ill................you are fekked

They need another tax cut for the super rich.

[council dweller]

My wife is living the dream over there.

There are NO jobs other than flipping burgers and the cost of living is rapidly approaching that which we suffer here.

The only things cheaper are fuel and property taxes (in Oregon anyway) but even better paying jobs pay less than the equivalent here with none of the benefits, no paid holiday, extortionate healthcare insurance, etc etc so any savings savings made on cheaper fuel and prperty taxes are soon eaten up.

And if you get ill................you are fekked

What's the latest on your dream to go and live there?

[interestrateripoff]

Still at least the bankers get their hard earned bonus for helping to create this mess....

It's hard to see how any of the indebted nations are going to do anything other than default.

[Xurbia]

My wife is living the dream over there.

There are NO jobs other than flipping burgers and the cost of living is rapidly approaching that which we suffer here.

The only things cheaper are fuel and property taxes (in Oregon anyway) but even better paying jobs pay less than the equivalent here with none of the benefits, no paid holiday, extortionate healthcare insurance, etc etc so any savings savings made on cheaper fuel and prperty taxes are soon eaten up.

And if you get ill................you are fekked

You paint a bleak picture which is not a accurate representation of the USA. My wife and I live in Washington State. We are both employed and enjoy a fantastic lifestyle. Both of our jobs pay better than similar jobs in England. We both get paid vacation and healthcare insurance. The healthcare we pay for is superior to the NHS is every single way and costs my wife and I $2400 a year, which is a tiny amount. England advertises free healthcare but the reality is different if you need something treated urgently; that's why companies like AXA PPP and BUPA exist! You wouldn't need them if the NHS wasn't full of soap-dodging pikies and illegal immigrants. Fuel is $3 a gallon, so I never dread going to the gas station. You forgot to mention that hard working people get insurance payments if they are laid off. The insurance payment is based on salary and is very fair. My wife and I would get about $600 each a week if we got laid off. In England you just burn through your savings or have to lie about your wealth; yes England wants decent working people to feel bad if they lose their jobs. In England the indolent get the unemployment cheques and those that have worked hard and have money saved get nothing. It's possible to buy land and a home for cash over here, and I'm talking about a proper house you can live in. You'd get a shoebox in a blighted area in Britain. Exactly who looks after you in Britain if you get ill? I know I'll get immediate attention over here.

There are loads of problems in America but don't believe all you hear. If you want to work in the USA then you'll get work.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Xurbia

[Guest UK Debt Slave]

What's the latest on your dream to go and live there?

It's over

They wont let me in

[Caius]

You paint a bleak picture which is not a accurate representation of the USA. My wife and I live in Washington State. We are both employed and enjoy a fantastic lifestyle. Both of our jobs pay better than similar jobs in England. We both get paid vacation and healthcare insurance. The healthcare we pay for is superior to the NHS is every single way and costs my wife and I $2400 a year, which is a tiny amount. England advertises free healthcare but the reality is different if you need something treated urgently; that's why companies like AXA PPP and BUPA exist! You wouldn't need them if the NHS wasn't full of soap-dodging pikies and illegal immigrants. Fuel is $3 a gallon, so I never dread going to the gas station. You forgot to mention that hard working people get insurance payments if they are laid off. The insurance payment is based on salary and is very fair. My wife and I would get about $600 each a week if we got laid off. In England you just burn through your savings or have to lie about your wealth; yes England wants decent working people to feel bad if they lose their jobs. In England the indolent get the unemployment cheques and those that have worked hard and have money saved get nothing. It's possible to buy land and a home for cash over here, and I'm talking about a proper house you can live in. You'd get a shoebox in a blighted area in Britain. Exactly who looks after you in Britain if you get ill? I know I'll get immediate attention over here.

There are loads of problems in America but don't believe all you hear. If you want to work in the USA then you'll get work.

What do you do?

[Xurbia]

What do you do?

Logistics. Wife works in healthcare.

[Caius]

Logistics. Wife works in healthcare.

So you are a Lorry driver? No, probably not. Is your experience typical of the average American?

[SHERWICK]

It's over

They wont let me in

Ah well, you can always try Mexico...

[Xurbia]

So you are a Lorry driver? No, probably not. Is your experience typical of the average American?

I'd say I'm typical amongst people that work hard....and you need to work hard in America.

....nothing wrong with driving a truck either when a UPS driver can easily earn $70k in Seattle.

Washington State does have cool companies which helps; the like of Boeing, Amazon, Microsoft, REI, Starbucks, Adobe and Nordstrom all have offices here.

I think you get what you deserve in the USA. I'm not sure exactly what you get in England and that's half the problem.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Xurbia

[Darkman]

It's over

They wont let me in

Why did they refuse you exactly?

[Xurbia]

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/10/fantastic-news-nonfarm-payrolls-decline.html

'Today we have fantastic news from the BLS that the economy shed 95,000 jobs, far weaker than the economists' consensus expectation of a mere 5,000 drop.

Moreover, part-time workers for economic reasons increased by a whopping 612,000 workers, much higher than an recent numbers and also higher than a year ago. The effect of rising part-time work is the effective unemployment rate shot up .4% to 17.1%'

'Looking ahead, I expect economic and jobs conditions to worsen, and for new all time highs in the unemployment rate.'

' * 95,000 jobs were lost

* 21,000 construction jobs were lost

* 6,000 manufacturing jobs were lost

* 86,000 service providing jobs were added

* 5,700 retail trade jobs were added

* 14,000 professional and business services jobs were added

* 17,000 education and health services jobs were added

* 38,000 leisure and hospitality jobs were added

* 159,000 government jobs were lost. Of them, 77,000 were temporary census workers'

that's a lot of people driving for UPS.

What's your point? There are jobs here. Everyone seems to be writing America off. I'd be far more concerned if I lost my job in Britain.

[Snugglybear]

What's your point? There are jobs here. Everyone seems to be writing America off. I'd be far more concerned if I lost my job in Britain.

Well...

According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, at the beginning of September there were 14.8 million unemployed and the number of individuals working part time who preferred full-time work was 8.9 million. Also there were about 2.5 million persons who were "marginally attached to the labor force in September, up from 2.2 million a year earlier. These individuals were not in the labor force, wanted and were available for work, and had looked for a job sometime in the prior 12 months. They were not counted as unemployed because they had not searched for work in the 4 weeks preceding the survey.

So the US needs to find another 17 million jobs and more work for another 8.9 million unwilling part-time workers.

Good luck with that.

[1929crash]

You paint a bleak picture which is not a accurate representation of the USA. My wife and I live in Washington State. We are both employed and enjoy a fantastic lifestyle. Both of our jobs pay better than similar jobs in England. We both get paid vacation and healthcare insurance. The healthcare we pay for is superior to the NHS is every single way and costs my wife and I $2400 a year, which is a tiny amount. England advertises free healthcare but the reality is different if you need something treated urgently; that's why companies like AXA PPP and BUPA exist! You wouldn't need them if the NHS wasn't full of soap-dodging pikies and illegal immigrants. Fuel is $3 a gallon, so I never dread going to the gas station. You forgot to mention that hard working people get insurance payments if they are laid off. The insurance payment is based on salary and is very fair. My wife and I would get about $600 each a week if we got laid off. In England you just burn through your savings or have to lie about your wealth; yes England wants decent working people to feel bad if they lose their jobs. In England the indolent get the unemployment cheques and those that have worked hard and have money saved get nothing. It's possible to buy land and a home for cash over here, and I'm talking about a proper house you can live in. You'd get a shoebox in a blighted area in Britain. Exactly who looks after you in Britain if you get ill? I know I'll get immediate attention over here.

There are loads of problems in America but don't believe all you hear. If you want to work in the USA then you'll get work.

it's so wonderful that one sixth of the population are living in poverty and more than 40 million claim food stamps.

And the real unemployment rate, not the BLS fiddled one, is in excess of 20%

Oh, and tent cities have sprung up in many places.

But you're all right Jack.

[Guest The Relaxation Suite]

It's over

They wont let me in

If you have a USC wife then I don't see how they can deny you unless there is something funny going on somewhere. You should speal to an immigration attorney.

[Big Orange]

There's some quirk in how the many, many local authorities are divided in America with their arbitary rules and proceedures, leading to bizarre and tragic situations where you have firemen idly standing by while somebody's house burned to the ground (he didn't pay their fee, but still). America seems pretty heavily divided for a nation that's supposed to be united and the Federal bureau seems to have grind to a halt through all the intense corruption and vested interests clogging things up, with a bloated military-industrial complex that's going on a increasingly sharper decline since the end of the Cold War: if military spending was a drinking competition the Soviet Union died of a sudden haemorrhage in 1991 while the United States of America has been diagnosed with liver cancer in 2008...

[Xurbia]

it's so wonderful that one sixth of the population are living in poverty and more than 40 million claim food stamps.

And the real unemployment rate, not the BLS fiddled one, is in excess of 20%

Oh, and tent cities have sprung up in many places.

But you're all right Jack.

Poverty by who's standards? There's supposed to be 1 in 6 kids in Britain living below the poverty line and 1 in 6 households without a working adult. So what?

Define what you understand 'poverty' to mean.

I'm not gloating that people are out of work. Where did I write that? I've been out of work and understand what it means.

Did you just pull the > 20% figure out of your backside or do you actually have some real proof?

Where do you live in the USA that gives you such insight or have you just written some worthless b*ll*cks?

Edited October 11, 2010 by Xurbia

[Xurbia]

my point is that when you say there's work,there isn't.

Where do you live in the USA and are you unemployed?

There is work in the USA and I personally know a 5 people who have got work after being laid off.

More fanciful b*ll*cks.

Unless you are a complete cretin there is work here.

[Mr. Spin esq.]

Third world America....

What a joke. Whomever came up with this moronic statement needs to review some facts:

1) The USA can shut off all it's borders and feed itself at the same time starving billions worldwide;

2) The USA military can wipe the rest of the world's military of the face of the earth. The wars in Afgan and Iraq are just testing grounds for tactics and weaponery. These wars are never intended to be won or lost.

3) The USA dollar is the currency that ALL western currencies are pegged to. It goes down THEY all GO DOWN.

4) The standard of living in the USA is FAR FAR superior to the UK or any other crackpot Soviet style European country.

Edited October 11, 2010 by Mr. Spin esq.

[bpw]

I'm a brit and have lived in the USA for the past decade. I have no delusions about the good and bad in both the USA and EU. Old world corruption and privilege in one and new world corruption and privilege in the other. The points made by Xurbia indicate he is employed and works for a corporation. If he and his wife lost their jobs then his opinions would alter overnight. He is right in many regards tho. If you have a half decent job then the standard of living is higher.... a lot higher for lower income workers (20-50k). He is misleading you tho about taxes and health care costs. There are state and federal taxes: in states with low property tax like Louisiana that means you pay 9% state tax and a couple of thousand a year in property tax. On the other hand in Texas there is no state tax but I pay around 2.5% property tax. So if you live in a $500k dollar house you pay 12.5k in property tax. When he says he and his wife pay around $2400 for health care he avoids telling you his employer has paid anywhere from 12000 to 30000 per worker. Health care costs here are staggering, and the BMA estimates the unit health care cost is around twice that in UK. One thing is certain, the care is better on average, but not twice as good. Quality ranges from the best in the world, to awful.... I can tell you horror stories from personal experience. Likewise two expat ward sister level nurses tell me the standards of hands-on care are literally upsetting to them. I too watched a nurse make a horrible mistake which was thankfully seen by a doctor who was in the process of leaving. A few seconds later and my wife would have had a dangerous intervention during surgery. It's not perfect in the UK - but take heed... the only people benefiting from privatizing health care are those taking wages and profits.

So where are we all heading? I've taken a bet with colleagues that the USA will have converged with India over the next 20 years: the two countries will have a well-off, but struggling, middle class and an abjectly poor lower cast. In the US that cast will consist of Mexican's, Blacks, and 'old world' industrial town workers cast aside in cities like Detroit. I will have to show you all some photos of how they live now. Xurbia knows, but has forgotten to tell you, how the large, poor population around Baltimore live. Watch The Wire to see a sanitized version. It's a hell hole riddled with drugs and poverty. Likewise look at the gang wars in LA to see how the American Dream is unraveling.

Perhaps if the US spent less on wars they could afford universal health care and regional development.

Some of you know the currency battle fascinates me. The Dollar is clearly the major reserve currency, largely because Bretton Woods resulted in oil and other commodities being traded in dollars. Think of what that means - as consumption rises the stock of dollars must increase. The US can therefore print faster than their economy grows, put the money in circulation for Americans to spend on foreign goods, only for the dollars to end up purchasing oil. That means they can print excess without inflation. The reserve status also means borrowing has been cheaper on average in the USA than anywhere else in the world. That is an instant competitive advantage to US business, no wonder the googles of the world all come from the USA. Finance has been plentiful (all at the expense of the rest of the world). Smart move eh.

The fly in the ointment was Saddam selling oil in Euros and more recently Ahmadinejad setting up an oil bourse to trade in all currencies (altho mostly euros). Greenspan said the euro was the greatest threat to dollar hegemony and he was right. Expect a rapid trans-Atlantic drift over the next decade - accelerated by the snafoos like the US Air tanker contract and other nationalistic and protectionist moves - interestingly the main approach at the moment is to attack the like of BAE through the courts using corruption laws (amusing eh!) and BP. Its time for the EU to grow balls and start insisting that the ME sell us oil in Euros.

Third world America....

What a joke. Whomever came up with this moronic statement needs to review some facts:

1) The USA can shut off all it's borders and feed itself at the same time starving billions worldwide;

2) The USA military can wipe the rest of the world's military of the face of the earth. The wars in Afgan and Iraq are just testing grounds for tactics and weaponery. These wars are never intended to be won or lost.

3) The USA dollar is the currency that ALL western currencies are pegged to. It goes down THEY all GO DOWN.

4) The standard of living in the USA is FAR FAR superior to the UK or any other crackpot Soviet style European country.

Edited October 11, 2010 by bpw

[MarkG]

There's some quirk in how the many, many local authorities are divided in America with their arbitary rules and proceedures, leading to bizarre and tragic situations where you have firemen idly standing by while somebody's house burned to the ground (he didn't pay their fee, but still).

As I understand it from what I've read, the area had declined to incorporate with the town (which would have meant paying higher taxes) but the fire service had offered to cover them anyway if they paid $75 a year to cover the risk. The man whose house burned down had been asked several times to pay and didn't do so. Then when his house actually caught fire, he offered to pay $75 for a service which cost much more than that.

If true, that's like not bothering to pay your car insurance, crashing into a brand-new Ferrari causing 250,000 in damages and then calling up the insurer to offer to pay a few hundred pounds if they'll cover the cost of the accident.

[Guest The Relaxation Suite]

I'm a brit and have lived in the USA for the past decade. I have no delusions about the good and bad in both the USA and EU. Old world corruption and privilege in one and new world corruption and privilege in the other. The points made by Xurbia indicate he is employed and works for a corporation. If he and his wife lost their jobs then his opinions would alter overnight. He is right in many regards tho. If you have a half decent job then the standard of living is higher.... a lot higher for lower income workers (20-50k). He is misleading you tho about taxes and health care costs. There are state and federal taxes: in states with low property tax like Louisiana that means you pay 9% state tax and a couple of thousand a year in property tax. On the other hand in Texas there is no state tax but I pay around 2.5% property tax. So if you live in a $500k dollar house you pay 12.5k in property tax. When he says he and his wife pay around $2400 for health care he avoids telling you his employer has paid anywhere from 12000 to 30000 per worker. Health care costs here are staggering, and the BMA estimates the unit health care cost is around twice that in UK. One thing is certain, the care is better on average, but not twice as good. Quality ranges from the best in the world, to awful.... I can tell you horror stories from personal experience. Likewise two expat ward sister level nurses tell me the standards of hands-on care are literally upsetting to them. I too watched a nurse make a horrible mistake which was thankfully seen by a doctor who was in the process of leaving. A few seconds later and my wife would have had a dangerous intervention during surgery. It's not perfect in the UK - but take heed... the only people benefiting from privatizing health care are those taking wages and profits.

So where are we all heading? I've taken a bet with colleagues that the USA will have converged with India over the next 20 years: the two countries will have a well-off, but struggling, middle class and an abjectly poor lower cast. In the US that cast will consist of Mexican's, Blacks, and 'old world' industrial town workers cast aside in cities like Detroit. I will have to show you all some photos of how they live now. Xurbia knows, but has forgotten to tell you, how the large, poor population around Baltimore live. Watch The Wire to see a sanitized version. It's a hell hole riddled with drugs and poverty. Likewise look at the gang wars in LA to see how the American Dream is unraveling.

Perhaps if the US spent less on wars they could afford universal health care and regional development.

Some of you know the currency battle fascinates me. The Dollar is clearly the major reserve currency, largely because Bretton Woods resulted in oil and other commodities being traded in dollars. Think of what that means - as consumption rises the stock of dollars must increase. The US can therefore print faster than their economy grows, put the money in circulation for Americans to spend on foreign goods, only for the dollars to end up purchasing oil. That means they can print excess without inflation. The reserve status also means borrowing has been cheaper on average in the USA than anywhere else in the world. That is an instant competitive advantage to US business, no wonder the googles of the world all come from the USA. Finance has been plentiful (all at the expense of the rest of the world). Smart move eh.

The fly in the ointment was Saddam selling oil in Euros and more recently Ahmadinejad setting up an oil bourse to trade in all currencies (altho mostly euros). Greenspan said the euro was the greatest threat to dollar hegemony and he was right. Expect a rapid trans-Atlantic drift over the next decade - accelerated by the snafoos like the US Air tanker contract and other nationalistic and protectionist moves - interestingly the main approach at the moment is to attack the like of BAE through the courts using corruption laws (amusing eh!) and BP. Its time for the EU to grow balls and start insisting that the ME sell us oil in Euros.

This is an excellent post and people would do well to heed its content, which I happen largely to agree with. WHat staggers me is how fast the US is changing. Back in the 80s I knew a few people - you know the types - who were obsessed with living in America, and back in the 80s it seemed like a smart thing to do because the advantages were clear. I know someone who moved out to CA in 1996, another person who moved to NC in 2001 and another person who moved to WA in 2005. All of them were pretty star-struck by life in the USA.

Today, they are less sure, apart from the one who went to CA and "happened" to marry a millionaire only child with an elderly father and obviously is doing all right. The others are windering why they are paying $16,000 in healthcare and $16,000 a year in property taxes on a three bedroom house. I make the point a lot - the USA is changing fast. It is not the country that existed even 15 years ago. The illegal immigration from the south is unbelievable to islanders like Brits or Aussies, who couldn't imagine 12 million illegals. By 2040 a third of the US will be Spanish-speaking, and the white population will be an ethnic minority.

America is not the country we all grew up reading about. It is changing fast, and not necessarily for the better. And I am not revelling in this because the US is the only chance democracy has to stand up to a rising totalitarian China with little regard for human rights. What a world we live in.

Edited October 11, 2010 by Tecumseh

[Realistbear]

Too late to turn this around? Certainly with the policies being enacted at the moment there will be none.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/09/14/third-world-america/3/

Third world America

Collapsing bridges, street lights turned off, cuts to basic services: the decline of a superpower

by Luiza Ch. Savage on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 7:32am - 297 Comments

American jobs are being lost not only to low-wage competition from emerging economies, but to strategic policies by foreign governments to dominate critical sectors of the economy, or to keep their currency values low to promote exports. “Other countries recognize the importance of economies of scale and promote the development of certain industries, whether solar panels, or semiconductors, and we don’t,” says Prestowitz.

I am not so sure about this. I live 5 miles East of Brighton and you need a Citroen with their famous suspension to cope with the potholes and uneven road surfaces around here. Many of the streets have the tarmac stripped off to bare and crumbling concrete. As far as job prospects go--there is nothing but layoffs in my area with many that I know are on job seekers and no hope. They are now saying that we will be facing cuts in basic services too:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8052251/Spending-cuts-UK-plc-waits-for-the-axe-to-fall.html

Spending cuts: UK plc waits for the axe to fall

I think its a case of we are all in it together. The bigger question is who will recover faster when the cycle shifts? AFAIK the US has a much younger population, vast natural resources and a still intact manufacturing base that may get more competitive as the Euro is forced upwards.

Edited October 11, 2010 by Realistbear