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Yes

I was a miner.  I got a bursary off the NCB to go to university.  I did my A-levels at night school and day-release in order to go. Didn't get a grant off the LEA or soak up 6th form or college taxes.

You know exactly how much it costs to go to university before you go, if you dont like the idea and costs, simple dont go, get a job.

Irrelevant. Interest rates were high. I paid probably the same as any FTB now as a proportion of my wage.

FTB used to get grotty terraces as their first house. Now no-ones happy unless they are lovely detached houses in nice leafy suburbs. FTB earn much more much earlier nowadays.

Yes

Good, get on with it then and quit whinging

Every ones angry when they are young.

:)

So you DID get a free university education?

Interest rates were high and will be high again with adverse effects on anyone getting a mortgage now, savvy?

Grotty terrace? I wish I could get one as a FTBer.

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We are srewed over by student debt and then stupidly larege multiples needed to by even the smallest of houses.

If you are of the older generation and are reading this with a feeling of dread and shame and not liking it then that is wholly appropriate.No other past generation has screwed up the future for their offspring to the gargantuan proportions that you have so take a bow and accept the scorn that is our right to give you.

If you don't think that your further education will be worth the debt you will have to repay (at very low rates of interest), then don't go. Get an apprenticeship and become an electrician or a plumber instead. Or is that beneath you?

I have no dread or shame at all. But then perhaps my generation is made of sterner stuff than yours!

Edited by Casual Observer
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Guest Charlie The Tramp
No other past generation has screwed up the future for their offspring to the gargantuan proportions that you have so take a bow and accept the scorn that is our right to give you.

When the time comes for me to depart this world my offspring will do very nicely thank you very much, all from a life of hard work which I can`t take with me. :(

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For everyone who is worried about the effect of SIPPS - ask yourself these questions:

i) How many people do you know who have at least one buy to let property?

ii) How many people do you know who have a personal pension pot of over £100,000?

I'm fairly willing to bet that the numbers in (i) far exceed the numbers in (ii). What then makes you think that those who have a cash but don't have a personal pension will suddenly want to put the cash into the personal pension?

Also remember that the classic btl is to put down a 15% deposit, and borrow 85%. With SIPPS, you can only borrow half the value of the assets in the fund, so to start a SIPP you have to put up a 66% deposit. Try getting that on an interest free egg credit card!

Also, the amount that you can put in to the fund each your is limited, I believe to your gross annual salary for that year. So if you're on 50k per annum, and you have a spare 50k cash, you can do a gross £75,000 btl. And another one next year, if you have the cash. That's not going to move the market.

The guy on £50k may be on a marginal 40% tax rate, but that's not to say that his tax bill is £50 x 40% = £20k, so therefore the good folks at HMRC are going to give his SIPP back £20k. They're only going to give back whatever he's paid in tax for that year, which I can't be bothered to work out. Also, what no-one has said yet is the timing of the tax refund. I can't imagine our mythical sipps investor coming to exchange of contracts on his new £100k buy to let and saying "OK, here's £60k to pay for it. I'll give you the rest when my tax rebate comes through."

One of the effects of SIPPS, however, is possibly helping to hold priices up at the moment. I'm sure that there are a few thickos who want to sell 'cos their investment is underwater and they're maxing out on the mastercard to keep afloat. They're probably lisening to all the VIs who say taht the market is going to take off in April, via SIPPS, and they've decided to wait till then so they don't want to reduce their price now. The shock that they get when SIPPS doesn't support the market may well be the shock that prompts the firesale prices.

Discuss.

Edited by devils advocate
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We have a certain amount of owners and str's on this forum who are in the upper age bracket and do not want to share the blame for a lot of what their generation have been responsible for.

This attitude is highly understandable but has very little relevance given the overwhelming evidence out there that the older generation just don't give a shit about letting the young have a chance.

There are fewer young now than there has ever been in comparison to the old and everybody knows that next generation are being screwed over left right and centre.

The emphasis is on keeping the older ones as cosy as possible while they enjoy probably the best retirement that will ever come to pass.

There is not even any guarantee the pension system will even be intact after the next twenty years or so and the emphasis now is that if you don't save for your own retirement you have had it.

They want to increase the age at which we can claim pension by another five years as well.

We are srewed over by student debt and then stupidly larege multiples needed to by even the smallest of houses.

If you are of the older generation and are reading this with a feeling of dread and shame and not liking it then that is wholly appropriate.No other past generation has screwed up the future for their offspring to the gargantuan proportions that you have so take a bow and accept the scorn that is our right to give you.

Bang on and they refuse to see it. Of course when all the motivated and skilled have fvcked off to countries with acceptable standards of living and they ( the baby boomers ) are all sat in retirement homes having their ar5es wiped by Eastern Europeans who they cant understand and cannot be understood by ( no offense to E. Europeans ), grandkids are in Aus or Canada and they cant afford to fly ( peak oil? ), they might see what we are on about.

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Guest rigsby II
So you DID get a free university education?

No such thing as a free lunch...

The NCB got their pound of flesh, I had to work 1 weekend in 4 and during those long long holidays that Universities have, I had to bl**dy work.

And then they shut all the pits.

Maybe that's why I have no sympathy when I hear whinging about how easy it used to be and how tough it is today.

Owning a house was the easy part, it was the backdrop of the turbulent times that made it difficult...

Edited by rigsby II
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For everyone who is worried about the effect of SIPPS - ask yourself these questions:

i)  How many people do you know who have at least one buy to let property?

ii)  How many people do you know who have a personal pension pot of over £100,000?

I'm fairly willing to bet that the numbers in (i) far exceed the numbers in (ii). What then makes you think that those who have a cash but don't have a personal pension will suddenly want to put the cash into the personal pension?

Also remember that the classic btl is to put down a 15% deposit, and borrow 85%. With SIPPS, you can only borrow half the value of the assets in the fund, so to start a SIPP you have to put up a 66% deposit. Try getting that on an interest free egg credit card!

Also, the amount that you can put in to the fund each your is limited, I believe to your gross annual salary for that year. So if you're on 50k per annum, and you have a spare 50k cash, you can do a gross £75,000 btl. And another one next year, if you have the cash. That's not going to move the market.

The guy on £50k may be on a marginal 40% tax rate, but that's not to say that his tax bill is £50 x 40% = £20k, so therefore the good folks at HMRC are going to give his SIPP back £20k. They're only going to give back whatever he's paid in tax for that year, which I can't be bothered to work out. Also, what no-one has said yet is the timing of the tax refund. I can't imagine our mythical sipps investor coming to exchange of contracts on his new £100k buy to let and saying "OK, here's £60k to pay for it. I'll give you the rest when my tax rebate comes through."

One of the effects of SIPPS, however, is possibly helping to hold priices up at the moment. I'm sure that there are a few thickos who want to sell 'cos their investment is underwater and they're maxing out on the mastercard to keep afloat. They're probably lisening to all the VIs who say taht the market is going to take off in April, via SIPPS, and they've decided to wait till then so they don't want to reduce their price now. The shock that they get when SIPPS doesn't support the market may well be the shock that prompts the firesale prices.

Discuss.

I agree entirely with all of your points. Mis-placed sentiment is the only way in which SIPPS will support the market, and it will indeed be short-lived. In fact, it might accelerate a decline in prices once the pent-up, would-be sellers realise that it's not going to support the market

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Guest rigsby II
Of course when all the motivated and skilled have fvcked off to countries with acceptable standards of living.

They won't though because the vast majority (especially on here) are all talk and no action. They won't leave.

Word of advice for all highly motivated graduates about to f**k off to places like Oz and NZ.

Quit whinging.

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If you don't think that your further education will be worth the debt you will have to repay (at very low rates of interest), then don't go. Get an apprenticeship and become an electrician or a plumber instead. Or is that beneath you?

I have no dread or shame at all. But then perhaps my generation is made of sterner stuff than yours!

Have you tried getting on a plumbing or electrician course recently? They are completely oversubscribed. Face facts, the baby boomers have reneged on their responsibilties to the younger generations.

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Bang on and they refuse to see it. Of course when all the motivated and skilled have fvcked off to countries with acceptable standards of living and they ( the baby boomers ) are all sat in retirement homes having their ar5es wiped by Eastern Europeans who they cant understand and cannot be understood by ( no offense to E. Europeans ), grandkids are in Aus or Canada and they cant afford to fly ( peak oil? ), they might see what we are on about.

Iinstead of just repeating this old mantra, why not respond to some of the counterpoints I and some of my peers have made? We lived through the 50's 60's and 70's, so we do have a better grasp of what life was like then. For example, no-one has respoded to my and Charlie's assertion that the average working class child was effectively barred from further education, since one was expected to pay one's own way at the age of 15/16. Why ignore this point?

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<rant mode> Oh dear, oh dear. All these people who think that the older generation had it all "on a plate".

No, they didn't. My parents never went Uni, neither of their parents could afford to let them study, they had to work immediately they left school, to pay their keep. To gain further education they worked 6 days a week, and night school 3 nights a week.

When they wanted to marry, he took a second job, 7 days a week, working every morning from 5-7.30a.m. putting up paper rounds, then went on to his day job. They never went out any evenings, except perhaps once a week to have one cup of coffee. They saved and saved and saved, for three years, then bought a tiny terrace which was a wreck, they then spent 18 months doing it up, living on beans on toast.

Sigh, I could go on, but what's the point. The majority of my generation think they are hard done by, and should have it on a plate. Well, no, we shouldn't!!! Each generation has its own mountains to climb. We have mad house prices, but what are many youngsters doing? Fetching up in flash motors, buying designer clothes, eating out, drinking oceans. Yeah, yeah I know that isn't everyone, but here in London, I see it constantly. Everyone wants foreign holidays, posh pads, plasmas screens, and they want it NOW! NOW! NOW!

Well, I am saving, but I am enjoying life. I haven't much, but am damn grateful for what I have got. Fresh water, a warm bed and three meals a day. Tell me you moaning bunch! What more does anyone really need. Yeah, we might be renting, but for pity's sake, the change will come, just relax, stop being so bitter and angry. Unless of course you want to end up being very sick, as well as feeling hard done by. Stress and anger are the biggest causes of sickness.

Life is what you make it, happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have got. You need a mind shift, not a world shift.

</rant mode>

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FTB used to get grotty terraces as their first house. Now no-ones happy unless they are lovely detached houses in nice leafy suburbs. FTB earn much more much earlier nowadays

:lol:

<tongue in cheek mode>

You've gotta love the old dears....a grotty terrace in a bad area of town where I live would require a salary of over 60k to make it affordable. A double the national average salary of 45k will just about allow you to stretch to a 1BR shoe box in a new build block with 100 quid a month service charges and guaranteed to be knackered in 10 years time.

</tongue in cheek mode>

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The difference is that in my generation couples bought houses, when they married. Today, singletons expect to buy the same property on 1 salary. No way I could have bought my first house on my salary alone.

Not sure what your generation is, but this generation, its a bloody nightmare

meeting up with women and staying in it, let alone getting married.

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EL_PIRATA - I'm COMPLETELY ON YOUR SIDE!!

Don't get downhearted by the tirade of "We 'ad it tough in my day" Cr*p - remember: of course they're going to fight their corner - I mean, let's face it, even AL CAPONE was genuinely HURT when he found out the public didn't see him as a benefactor!!

Because the boomers are old, they are inevitably GOOD AT COMMUNICATING and arguing any point of view so as a result sound really convincing in arguments.

Also, watch how they immediately gang together in a sort of united football hooligan lump as soon as they're threatened. They are NASTY, VINDICTIVE, SELFISH, FLUENT, SLICK, DEVIOUS and to cap it all, always play their trump card which cannot be beaten in an argument which is:

"Ah, look, you're all upset - it's not an argument - you're just overtired!"

They really would like it if we would shut up. They laugh when we say "hang on!" but really they DON'T WANT CONFLICT BECAUSE IT SHINES A LIGHT ON THEIR GRABBING! And in the end they know they will lose it all in a civil unrest - which believe you me (best friend police officer told me) is COMING LIKE A STEAM TRAIN!.

Stay calm my good friend - revenge is a dish best served cold.

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EL_PIRATA - I'm COMPLETELY ON YOUR SIDE!!

Don't get downhearted by the tirade of "We 'ad it tough in my day" Cr*p - remember: of course they're going to fight their corner - I mean, let's face it, even AL CAPONE was genuinely HURT when he found out the public didn't see him as a benefactor!!

Because the boomers are old, they are inevitably GOOD AT COMMUNICATING and arguing any point of view so as a result sound really convincing in arguments.

Also, watch how they immediately gang together in a sort of united football hooligan lump as soon as they're threatened. They are NASTY, VINDICTIVE, SELFISH, FLUENT, SLICK, DEVIOUS and to cap it all, always play their trump card which cannot be beaten in an argument which is:

"Ah, look, you're all upset - it's not an argument - you're just overtired!"

They really would like it if we would shut up. They laugh when we say "hang on!" but really they DON'T WANT CONFLICT BECAUSE IT SHINES A LIGHT ON THEIR GRABBING! And in the end they know they will lose it all in a civil unrest - which believe you me (best friend police officer told me) is COMING LIKE A STEAM TRAIN!.

Stay calm my good friend - revenge is a dish best served cold.

Yes, a well-thought out and argued response. Thanks.

I bow to your stupidity. :lol:

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Iinstead of just repeating this old mantra, why not respond to some of the counterpoints I and some of my peers have made? We lived through the 50's 60's and 70's, so we do have a better grasp of what life was like then. For example, no-one has respoded to my and Charlie's assertion that the average working class child was effectively barred from further education, since one was expected to pay one's own way at the age of 15/16. Why ignore this point?

Do you think you could get a job today leaving school at 16? Furthermore, there are no apprenticeships, and its almost impossible to get on a good vocation training course at college. The only option available to school leavers is crushing amounts of debt for a worthless 'university style' education in order to get a job which doesnt allow one to buy a place to live or have kids.

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Guest rigsby II
And in the end they know they will lose it all in a civil unrest.

Would that be as effective as your (cyber) FTB campaigns ?

I'm absolutely sh**ting myself :lol::lol:

Edited by rigsby II
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No such thing as a free lunch...

The NCB got their pound of flesh, I had to work 1 weekend in 4 and during those long long holidays that Universities have, I had to bl**dy work.

And then they shut all the pits.

Maybe that's why I have no sympathy when I hear whinging about how easy it used to be and how tough it is today.

Owning a house was the easy part, it was the backdrop of the turbulent times that made it difficult...

Oh right, so you're one of those who gave the establishment the opportunity to destroy the trade union movement and the hard won rights your parents had fought for. Nice one.

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Do you think you could get a job today leaving school at 16? Furthermore, there are no apprenticeships, and its almost impossible to get on a good vocation training course at college. The only option available to school leavers is crushing amounts of debt for a worthless 'university style' education in order to get a job which doesnt allow one to buy a place to live or have kids.

Ok, I won't argue with your point about the difficulty to get an apprenticeship, as I have no data on this (although my twin nephews seemed to manage it no problem, and are now skilled craftsmen)

But the point I was trying to make is that many of today's youngsters seem to think they have a right to a free University education, despite their mediocre talents. And then moan about having to pay for it and not being able to get a £50k job with their 2.2 in Media Studies from the University of Nowhere.

Edited by Casual Observer
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Ok, I won't argue with your point about the difficulty to get an apprenticeship, as I have no data on this (although my twin nephews seemed to manage it no problem, and are now skilled craftsmen)

But the point I was trying to make is that many of today's youngsters seem to think they have a right to a free University education, despite their mediocre talents. And then moan about having to pay for it.

I dispute your point about getting on an apprenticeship, however you're right about university education, its a waste of time for a lot of people, the amount of graduate jobs just don exist and alot just are not up to it. Why we are importing skilled workers, destroying the infastructure of developing countries in the process, while young people do worthless courses to end up in a call centre I dont know.

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  • 440 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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