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This just scared the cr@p out of me.

I hadn't really thought about SIPPS too much before, and was 90pc convinced that we were heading for a crash beginning before the year is out because property is just not affordable for the FTB and the yields don't make sense for BTL.

Now the sight of these grotesque baby-boomers on Newsnight gearing up to buy themselves holiday homes, old Rollers and BTL flats with 40% discounts under the guise of a pension plan has me sick. With Gordy's help they are going to push the first rung permanently beyond my reach, and I will spend my life working to pay their pensions three times over - tax, NI and rent. Makes me want to slash my wrists.

How much more are the baby boomers going to screw my generation???? They got paid to go to university and study, and then lumbered us withtuition fees and student loans.

They bought houses at affordable prices and are now trying to turn us into a generation of tenants.

Christ, they even enjoyed some of the greatest music in the 60s and 70s, and then when they get put in charge of the music industry they give us the X-Factor and Pop Idol.

I love my parents but I think their generation must be one of the most greedy and morally bankrupt in history.

Our grandparents gave their blood to keep this country free and made countless sacrifices to bequeath their children a fairer, freer society.

Who in turn have ransacked and destroyed the whole thing. And now there's nothing left of the inheritance, they are trying to squeeze the lifeblood out of THEIR children's generation to keep funding their profligate and wasteful lifestyles.

And they wonder why we binge drink?

Well I say that when these greedy fools find out that the holiday homes and cars they bought with a 40% discount at OUR expense have not left them with enough to live on in their old age, they should not get A PENNY of our taxes and NI. They should be left to perish, as a warning to all those that follow them of the ultimate price of greed and selfishness.

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Now the sight of these grotesque baby-boomers on Newsnight gearing up to buy themselves holiday homes, old Rollers and BTL flats with 40% discounts under the guise of a pension plan has me sick.

[....]

Well I say that when these greedy fools find out that the holiday homes and cars they bought with a 40% discount at OUR expense have not left them with enough to live on in their old age, they should not get A PENNY of our taxes and NI.

You guys are getting far too worked up about SIPPS. There's no way it can stop the crash.

Let's just get this 40% discount rumour clarified please.

Under the SIPPS changes, you can buy a residential property with money you have already put in a personal pension plan. The money you put in a plan has full tax relief. If you pay higher rate tax it is 40% tax relief.

All it is doing is allowing people to invest their personal pension in residential property as well as mutual funds, bonds, commercial property etc. Why on earth would you do this while property prices are falling? If you are a baby boomer you are about to start drawing your pension within the next 5-10 years. Putting your pension pot in property would be absolute madness. It is not going to have a big takeup in the next couple of years.

frugalista

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This just scared the cr@p out of me.

I hadn't really thought about SIPPS too much before, and was 90pc convinced that we were heading for a crash beginning before the year is out because property is just not affordable for the FTB and the yields don't make sense for BTL.

Now the sight of these grotesque baby-boomers on Newsnight gearing up to buy themselves holiday homes, old Rollers and BTL flats with 40% discounts under the guise of a pension plan has me sick. With Gordy's help they are going to push the first rung permanently beyond my reach, and I will spend my life working to pay their pensions three times over - tax, NI and rent. Makes me want to slash my wrists.

How much more are the baby boomers going to screw my generation???? They got paid to go to university and study, and then lumbered us withtuition fees and student loans.

They bought houses at affordable prices and are now trying to turn us into a generation of tenants.

Christ, they even enjoyed some of the greatest music in the 60s and 70s, and then when they get put in charge of the music industry they give us the X-Factor and Pop Idol.

I love my parents but I think their generation must be one of the most greedy and morally bankrupt in history.

Our grandparents gave their blood to keep this country free and made countless sacrifices to bequeath their children a fairer, freer society.

Who in turn have ransacked and destroyed the whole thing. And now there's nothing left of the inheritance, they are trying to squeeze the lifeblood out of THEIR children's generation to keep funding their profligate and wasteful lifestyles.

And they wonder why we binge drink?

Well I say that when these greedy fools find out that the holiday homes and cars they bought with a 40% discount at OUR expense have not left them with enough to live on in their old age, they should not get A PENNY of our taxes and NI. They should be left to perish, as a warning to all those that follow them of the ultimate price of greed and selfishness.

a sweet rant. i agree in total. and whats more - they know this, but also know that theres nothing we can really do other than lump it or leave.

and leaving isnt that practical. they suck. it makes you look at the generation above with utter contempt. no more carrying bags for the old. no more jams from the church fete. this is inter-generational war.

**id like to add.

one of my own petty revenges is to fling all litter along those leafy unaffordable streets as i drive through. sod them. who cares.? they are ruining our lives. theres nothing more an aged BTLr hates is empty malteasers packets all over the grass verge.

Edited by right_freds_dead

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You guys are getting far too worked up about SIPPS. There's no way it can stop the crash.

Let's just get this 40% discount rumour clarified please.

Under the SIPPS changes, you can buy a residential property with money you have already put in a personal pension plan. The money you put in a plan has full tax relief. If you pay higher rate tax it is 40% tax relief.

All it is doing is allowing people to invest their personal pension in residential property as well as mutual funds, bonds, commercial property etc.  Why on earth would you do this while property prices are falling? If you are a baby boomer you are about to start drawing your pension within the next 5-10 years. Putting your pension pot in property would be absolute madness. It is not going to have a big takeup in the next couple of years.

frugalista

You are making one dangerous assumption: that property investors will be rational. Besides, 40% is a pretty large cushion against price falls, especially over a 10 year horizon.

I'm guessing the idea is to generate a yield which is an income stream for their pension. Capital value in 10 years time doesn't matter.

If they buy an asset yielding 5% currently, at a 40% discount, their effective yield is 8.33%. That is fairly impressive in today's climate.

I'm hoping SIPPS have minimal effect due to the small number of people who have enough cash to invest.

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You guys are getting far too worked up about SIPPS. There's no way it can stop the crash.

Let's just get this 40% discount rumour clarified please.

Under the SIPPS changes, you can buy a residential property with money you have already put in a personal pension plan. The money you put in a plan has full tax relief. If you pay higher rate tax it is 40% tax relief.

All it is doing is allowing people to invest their personal pension in residential property as well as mutual funds, bonds, commercial property etc.  Why on earth would you do this while property prices are falling? If you are a baby boomer you are about to start drawing your pension within the next 5-10 years. Putting your pension pot in property would be absolute madness. It is not going to have a big takeup in the next couple of years.

frugalista

If only a 1000 extra properties are taken out of the market and into SIPPs then there is 'some' effect on the market but there's not just a 1000 but up to £10 BILLION is already earmarked for the SIPP housing market next year. Thats 66,000 properties @£150,000 each - then there's the year after and the year after that and the....

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£10 BILLION is already earmarked for the SIPP housing market next year. Thats 66,000 properties

1,787,000 properties changed hands in the last year (2004) alone. 66K is small beer in terms of national transaction numbers. (and many SIPP purchases will cost more than £150K, so the total number bought by SIPPs will likely be less than 66,000)

Edited by IPOD

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Delightful another SIPPS thread, my favourite subject, i've got an idea though...

Why don't you guys actually do a little research into SIPPS yourself, go on spend half an hour and read all you can about it from financial sites on the net.

Then come back and tell us all what you think, go on go and look at the rules and requirements and costs and obligations - which i might add are all subject to contraction. Go and do a little research.

You could do far worse than by starting on this site and seaching for SIPPS... heres some...

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...wtopic=9201&hl=

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...topic=10683&hl=

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...topic=10471&hl=

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...topic=10983&hl=

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...topic=11135&hl=

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...topic=13035&hl=

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...topic=13024&hl=

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...topic=13086&hl=

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...topic=12858&hl=

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...topic=12691&hl=

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...topic=11598&hl=

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...topic=10695&hl=

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...topic=10671&hl=

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So from next April onwards thousands of SIPPS investors are going to flood an already saturated rental market with even more property. Good on them I say. Not only will it push rents and yields down further making it even easier for the young to save for their futures, it will also eventually crash prices on that rung of the ladder. How the hell can an existing BTLer compete with a SIPPSer armed with 40% tax relief?

Law of unintended consequences will come and bite Brown on the a*se with this scheme.

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Some of you are getting far too worked up about the reported "40% discount" on assets purchased from pension funds.

Anyone who contributes to a pension scheme of any kind gets tax relief at their marginal rate i.e. 40% if their earnings are high enough. When you eventually draw your pension, you will, by the same argument, get a "tax-payer funded" discount on everything you buy.

I have a final salary pension. Today I will spend some of it on a new TV (the old one's knackered). You won't see reports in the papers that Casual Observer got the government to pay 40% towards a new TV set! What's the difference?

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Guest rigsby II
Now the sight of these grotesque baby-boomers on Newsnight

How much more are the baby boomers going to screw my generation????

..must be one of the most greedy and morally bankrupt in history.

Our grandparents gave their blood to keep this country free and made countless sacrifices to bequeath their children a fairer, freer society.

Who in turn have ransacked and destroyed the whole thing. And now there's nothing left of the inheritance, they are trying to squeeze the lifeblood out of THEIR children's generation to keep funding their profligate and wasteful lifestyles.

"I'll scream and scream and scream until I'm sick..."

84_001.jpg

What a load of petulant spoilt brat bo***cks

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...up to £10 BILLION is already earmarked for the SIPP housing market next year...

Thought it was £100 GAZILLION BAJILLION myself.

Pulling big numbers out your ass is fun, and a sure way to win an argument!

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"I'll scream and scream and scream until I'm sick..."

84_001.jpg

What a load of petulant spoilt brat bo***cks

Well said Rigsby.

As a 51 year old I get annoyed at some of the stupid anti-generational comments I sometimes see on this forum, like the one above.

I bought my first tiny house in a not-so-nice area for about 11k in 1975; my brother-in-law had bought a lovely semi in an affluent area for about 2.5k, 12 years earlier. The difference at the time was huge. I don't remember thinking that his generation had screwed me up at all, like many people I just accepted the situation and got on with it.

Prices are only too high because people have been paying those amounts - IT IS NOT A CONSPIRACY AGAINST YOUR GENERATION.

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Guest Charlie The Tramp
I love my parents but I think their generation must be one of the most greedy and morally bankrupt in history.
Good news for grasping youngsters who fear their parents are about to cash in the family home and fritter away the inheritance.It seems the old folk`s caveman genes will be urging them to hang on to the house until they die.

A new paper from academic Steffen Huck at University College London probes what has until now been one of the greatest mysteries in economics-the `endowment effect`This describes why people`s attachment to possessions tends greatly to exceed their market value. The Royal Economic Society, which is publishing the paper by Huck and collaborators Georg Kirchsteiger and Jorg Oechssler, says: `People wonder why few elderly homeowners take out equity release plans to boost their income, or capitals on the booming housing market by selling their homes and moving to a more convenient flat.`Huck and Co have cracked it, apparently. It all goes back to our days in the hunter-gatherer environment. A hunter who wanteda balanced diet would have to swap meat for berries, for example, but would have an inflated sense of value of what he owned-meat.

The consequences: if you like something, then you will think it is worth a lot and you will want a lot in return.

That`s why, the paper says, `emotional attachment to some of our possessions might actually be hard-wired in our brains`.

Just what forward planning sons and daughters wanted to hear.

Well us babyboomers are not all bad. BTW don`t shoot me I`m only the messenger. :)

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Well said Rigsby.

As a 51 year old I get annoyed at some of the stupid anti-generational comments I sometimes see on this forum, like the one above.

I bought my first tiny house in a not-so-nice area for about 11k in 1975; my brother-in-law had bought a lovely semi in an affluent area for about 2.5k, 12 years earlier. The difference at the time was huge. I don't remember thinking that his generation had screwed me up at all, like many people I just accepted the situation and got on with it.

Prices are only too high because people have been paying those amounts - IT IS NOT A CONSPIRACY AGAINST YOUR GENERATION.

OK guys so I am the spolit one?

Let me ask you this? How much did you have to pay for your education? And how much did you have to borrow to fund it? Or were you entirely subsidised - including living costs - by the taxes of your parents' generation?

What salary multiple did you have to borrow for your first house?

My old man was able to buy a decent family home on a simple tradesman's salary, and yet I who earn relatively much more (achieved through a lot of hard studying and hard-graft) than he ever did could only afford a shitty 1 bed flat that would be totally unsuitable for bringing up a family in?

Are you really so sure I am the spoilt one?

I am trying to "accept the situation and get on with it", as you say, that means saving as much as possible, not permitting myself any little luxuries, and putting my life on hold for god knows how many years.

Can you understand why I and many like me are angry?

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Guest rigsby II
OK guys so I am the spolit one?

Yes

Let me ask you this? How much did you have to pay for your education? And how much did you have to borrow to fund it? Or were you entirely subsidised - including living costs - by the taxes of your parents' generation?

I was a miner. I got a bursary off the NCB to go to university. I did my A-levels at night school and day-release in order to go. Didn't get a grant off the LEA or soak up 6th form or college taxes.

You know exactly how much it costs to go to university before you go, if you dont like the idea and costs, simple dont go, get a job.

What salary multiple did you have to borrow for your first house?

Irrelevant. Interest rates were high. I paid probably the same as any FTB now as a proportion of my wage.

My old man was able to buy a decent family home on a simple tradesman's salary, and yet I who earn relatively much more (achieved through a lot of hard studying and hard-graft) than he ever did could only afford a shitty 1 bed flat that would be totally unsuitable for bringing up a family in?

FTB used to get grotty terraces as their first house. Now no-ones happy unless they are lovely detached houses in nice leafy suburbs. FTB earn much more much earlier nowadays.

Are you really so sure I am the spoilt one?

Yes

I am trying to "accept the situation and get on with it", as you say, that means saving as much as possible, not permitting myself any little luxuries, and putting my life on hold for god knows how many years.

Good, get on with it then and quit whinging

Can you understand why I and many like me are angry?

Every ones angry when they are young.

:)

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Guest Charlie The Tramp
Let me ask you this? How much did you have to pay for your education? And how much did you have to borrow to fund it? Or were you entirely subsidised - including living costs - by the taxes of your parents' generation?

The vast majority of baby boomers born between 1940 and 1960 did not have the chance to go on to higher education which was very elitest then. Most like myself were expected to go out and support ourselves at 15 and 16 taking low paid apprenticeships up to 7 years to learn a trade. <_<

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Every ones angry when they are young.

Thats a bit unfair. Life is harder now, no doubt.

This generation have to pay for their education which we did not and they have to buy houses at rediculous multiples.

What encouragement do we give them

NONE

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OK guys so I am the spolit one?

Let me ask you this? How much did you have to pay for your education? And how much did you have to borrow to fund it? Or were you entirely subsidised - including living costs - by the taxes of your parents' generation?

What salary multiple did you have to borrow for your first house?

My old man was able to buy a decent family home on a simple tradesman's salary, and yet I who earn relatively much more (achieved through a lot of hard studying and hard-graft) than he ever did could only afford a shitty 1 bed flat that would be totally unsuitable for bringing up a family in?

Are you really so sure I am the spoilt one?

I am trying to "accept the situation and get on with it", as you say, that means saving as much as possible, not permitting myself any little luxuries, and putting my life on hold for god knows how many years.

Can you understand why I and many like me are angry?

1. Education. Despite getting 9 good grade O levels, I left school at 16 and studied for 8 years on day release, whilst working. University was not an option for me because I felt obliged to contribute to my living costs whilst living in the parental home. This was not atypical for my generation; I know of many clever peers who did similar. Today of course, the most average student has a "right" to a university education, funded by others.

2. Salary multiple. My wife and I had a combined salary of about 4.2k. We bought a house for 11k. The interest rate though was 11%. We'd saved for about 3 years for a deposit, every penny we could. Identical houses in that street now go for about £130k. Today's youngsters would expect to be able to buy it on 1 salary I suppose.

Yes, I am sure you're the spoilt one, for moaning so much and trying to blame everyone else. <_<

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We have a certain amount of owners and str's on this forum who are in the upper age bracket and do not want to share the blame for a lot of what their generation have been responsible for.

This attitude is highly understandable but has very little relevance given the overwhelming evidence out there that the older generation just don't give a shit about letting the young have a chance.

There are fewer young now than there has ever been in comparison to the old and everybody knows that next generation are being screwed over left right and centre.

The emphasis is on keeping the older ones as cosy as possible while they enjoy probably the best retirement that will ever come to pass.

There is not even any guarantee the pension system will even be intact after the next twenty years or so and the emphasis now is that if you don't save for your own retirement you have had it.

They want to increase the age at which we can claim pension by another five years as well.

We are srewed over by student debt and then stupidly larege multiples needed to by even the smallest of houses.

If you are of the older generation and are reading this with a feeling of dread and shame and not liking it then that is wholly appropriate.No other past generation has screwed up the future for their offspring to the gargantuan proportions that you have so take a bow and accept the scorn that is our right to give you.

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Thats a bit unfair. Life is harder now, no doubt.

This generation have to pay for their education which we did not and they have to buy houses at rediculous multiples.

What encouragement do we give them

NONE

Read the posts from us oldies! University was out of the question for most of the working class, even for us geniuses!!

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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