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Why stop at the 20s for kidulthood?

Every year that passes I get more irresponsible.

1992 age 18, rushed out of 6th form to medical school, desperate to qualify as a doctor as fast as possible. I was a seriously cautious, ********-retentive adolescent. Eventually became a GP partner.

2005 age 30, looking around and noting that I had no particular ties (I'm not against marriage and family on principle, it just hasn't happened, which is fine by me), quit the partnership in favour of part-time locums and part-time hobby-work in music and theatre.

2007 sold my house, being both a devotee of this site and seeing it as an unwanted tie.

2009 moved to London to take a 1 year fulltime Masters degree in Musical Theatre.

Now I've finished my degree. Am I going back into full time medicine? No chance. What next? I'll carry on looking for theatre work; I've started thinking about a new hobby (standup comedy)...

Finally at 36 I feel the sense of adventure, freedom and possibility that I saw in my friends at 18, but never felt for myself!

Anyway, if you want a substantive contribution to the thread, I think there are 2 key issues: housing costs and delayed marriage, which I think is due to sexual liberalism. Once it became socially acceptable to have sex outside a lifelong-committed relationship, it was pretty obvious that people (men??) might prefer to delay making a lifelong commitment!

(Edit: Cute: the site automatically censors the word ********-retentive.)

Edited by Selling up

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Oh and before you all start hating me, you don't need to tell me how lucky I've been to get into GP as it became disproportionately lucrative, and to have been in a position to buy a house before the peak. I'm very well aware of my good luck.

However, I like to think that even if I hadn't had this luck, I'd still have been bold enough by now to start making more adventurous choices.

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http://www.independe...an-2089906.html

I bet you if house prices were lower their would be a lot less kidadults around...

House prices are a factor, but also low wages. Very low wages, even by the standards of the 1930s.

Consider this. In 1931 unemployment benefit was 18 shillings, a means test was introduced and the NUWM marched on London, the hunger march, and the police battered them, the unemployment benefit dropped to 15 shilling and 3 pence.

What are those two values today, as a share of GDP?

Interesting that you ask that, Sir.

It is £291 (£15132pa) and £247 (£12844pa) respectively.

The minimum wage for an adult (now an adult must be 21,22?, maybe even 25) (you get lower unemployment benefit until you hit 25 and the minimum wage is lower for the junger), is £5.80, £11310pa for 37.5h a week 52 weeks a year.

There might be a bigger pie, but we all get a smaller share of the crumbs. I could cry if I didn't have a pressing pain in my jaws and between my eyes from clamping my teeth in anger.

Edited by Unemployed Youth

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Oh and before you all start hating me, you don't need to tell me how lucky I've been to get into GP as it became disproportionately lucrative, and to have been in a position to buy a house before the peak. I'm very well aware of my good luck.

However, I like to think that even if I hadn't had this luck, I'd still have been bold enough by now to start making more adventurous choices.

In hindsight, I wish I had become a GP. All of my friends who did so have done more or less what you have - bought a house early, and by 30 started having a real life. One joined the circus (yes, really, and he was so straight at school - still waters run deep!) another one used to joins in with expeditions and spent a lot of the year free climbing. He now is semi retired at 40, staying at home watching his kids grow and working part time (house paid off). Medicine as a career opens up a lot of non-standard options.

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In hindsight, I wish I had become a GP. All of my friends who did so have done more or less what you have - bought a house early, and by 30 started having a real life. One joined the circus (yes, really, and he was so straight at school - still waters run deep!) another one used to joins in with expeditions and spent a lot of the year free climbing. He now is semi retired at 40, staying at home watching his kids grow and working part time (house paid off). Medicine as a career opens up a lot of non-standard options.

You're looking at your friends as if they have everything. This is an illusion. They may have the house, kids, career - and they may just be the most miserable people ever. Trapped in an environment that can never get out of. Of course, they may be really content with life but you never know. Money ain't everything!

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It's just more pressure to pay an inflated price for a lifetime of debt.

There was a thread last year where a developer in one of the London papers was trying to sell flats (which obviously weren't selling) by having a go at people in their 20s living at home.

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The ladder to adulthood has been kicked away firmly thanks to high house prises. It really is that simple.

In 1900 only about 9% of families were owner occupiers, the rest rented.

Does that mean that in 1900 91% of the population never achieved adulthood?

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Why stop at the 20s for kidulthood?

Every year that passes I get more irresponsible.

You don't sound irresponsible to me!

You could always go back to doctoring, but with a musical theme!

Or deal with actors complaints! Swelling ego, and stuff like that! :blink:

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House prices are a factor, but also low wages.  Very low wages, even by the standards of the 1930s.

Consider this.  In 1931 unemployment benefit was 18 shillings, a means test was introduced and the NUWM marched on London, the hunger march, and the police battered them, the unemployment benefit dropped to 15 shilling and 3 pence.

What are those two values today, as a share of GDP?

Interesting that you ask that, Sir.

It is  £291 (£15132pa) and  £247 (£12844pa) respectively.

The minimum wage for an adult (now an adult must be 21,22?, maybe even 25) (you get lower unemployment benefit until you hit 25 and the minimum wage is lower for the junger), is £5.80, £11310pa for 37.5h a week 52 weeks a year.

There might be a bigger pie, but we all get a smaller share of the crumbs.  I could cry if I didn't have a pressing pain in my jaws and between my eyes from clamping my teeth in anger.

Only too relevant, sadly. This posting makes a welcome change from the Tory "dole scrounger" nutters on this site, all of whom (of course) have gleaned what little understanding they have of the world via the efforts of socialists of their parents and grandparents generation resulting in a welfare state that provided them with a right to free education (which they appear to have not absorbed) and free health care (although it would appear that somebody squeezed the forceps a bit hard on the infant skull in some cases). These people appparently see a causal connection between the (derisory) attempt to provide the most basic level of support to the poorest as highlighted in the above posting and the state of government finances / high house prices.

Strange, but my frequently well heeled collegues at the bar also have a similar view, blaming the poor underclass (their clients) for being lazy and feckles, never having experienced anything like a working class life and not certainly not having the slightest inkling about what it means (in terms of managing ones resources, planning and improvising) to get through the fortnight between benefit payments having enough money to eat on day fourteen. They also seem to think their offspring, however moderately gifted, warrant the expense of the very finest private education whilst the brightest and best of another generation of the working class spends it's formative years surviving what passes for it's school rather than recieving the education with which they could do so much more than their peers with monied parents. Yep, the barriers are higher to social mobility and the gap wider between the classes than at any time since Hogarth was illustrating the delights of the mercantile economy. Time to riot.

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I think there are 2 key issues: housing costs and delayed marriage,

And delayed children.

Which means the grannys are too old to do their bit for looking after the kidlets.

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From the Article:

Clare is single and lives with her mother, Carol, 48, who is a full-time carer for her parents. Carol owns her terrace house.

"I study English at John Moores University in Liverpool. I want to be in a happy place with a nice job. Money is not so much an issue, and with the recession and Tories getting in, I don't think holding out for that is very realistic. I would feel happier if they were not cutting the number of police. Where I live is not exactly a leafy suburb, if you know what I mean. I would like to teach, a role that actually helps people."

of course these nasty Tories are making these cuts for the fun of it and the only jobs being created in the next 5 years are in puppy-skinning factories, Top Hat retailers and seal clubbing troupes.

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Only too relevant, sadly. This posting makes a welcome change from the Tory "dole scrounger" nutters on this site, all of whom (of course) have gleaned what little understanding they have of the world via the efforts of socialists of their parents and grandparents generation resulting in a welfare state that provided them with a right to free education (which they appear to have not absorbed) and free health care (although it would appear that somebody squeezed the forceps a bit hard on the infant skull in some cases). These people appparently see a causal connection between the (derisory) attempt to provide the most basic level of support to the poorest as highlighted in the above posting and the state of government finances / high house prices.

Strange, but my frequently well heeled collegues at the bar also have a similar view, blaming the poor underclass (their clients) for being lazy and feckles, never having experienced anything like a working class life and not certainly not having the slightest inkling about what it means (in terms of managing ones resources, planning and improvising) to get through the fortnight between benefit payments having enough money to eat on day fourteen. They also seem to think their offspring, however moderately gifted, warrant the expense of the very finest private education whilst the brightest and best of another generation of the working class spends it's formative years surviving what passes for it's school rather than recieving the education with which they could do so much more than their peers with monied parents. Yep, the barriers are higher to social mobility and the gap wider between the classes than at any time since Hogarth was illustrating the delights of the mercantile economy. Time to riot.

2nd October 2013

Having a lovely time in the Wharf, although its changed a bit recently

hogarth_william_ginlane.jpg

Wish you were here

Emily

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Everyone's for social mobility - but nobody wants to move down.

Unfortunately, the biggest blockers in social mobility are:

1) Accent, manners and etiquette

2) Education

3) House Prices

4) Who you know

One thing that house price inflation did was allow people who never before had the ability to participate in booms and busts, to jump on the gravy train.

The stock market bubble that ended in 1999/2000 has affected far fewer people than the 2007-present housing bust.

Getting into property is was a relatively egalitarian phenomenon - of the developers I personally know, most are skilled on the trades or worked in the oil industry as welders, pipefitters etc...

You don't see these people building a 5,000 ft2 eco-chalet made from Japanese Bansai wood built onto an old barn in Northunberland.

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Everyone's for social mobility - but nobody wants to move down.

Unfortunately, the biggest blockers in social mobility are:

1) Accent, manners and etiquette

2) Education

3) House Prices

4) Who you know

You don't see these people building a 5,000 ft2 eco-chalet made from Japanese Bansai wood built onto an old barn in Northunberland.

I know you lot! ;)

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Everyone's for social mobility - but nobody wants to move down.

Unfortunately, the biggest blockers in social mobility are:

1) Accent, manners and etiquette

2) Education

3) House Prices

4) Who you know

One thing that house price inflation did was allow people who never before had the ability to participate in booms and busts, to jump on the gravy train.

The stock market bubble that ended in 1999/2000 has affected far fewer people than the 2007-present housing bust.

Getting into property is was a relatively egalitarian phenomenon - of the developers I personally know, most are skilled on the trades or worked in the oil industry as welders, pipefitters etc...

You don't see these people building a 5,000 ft2 eco-chalet made from Japanese Bansai wood built onto an old barn in Northunberland.

It's really only number 4 above and, more importantly, the great lottery of the income and inherited wealth of parental and grand parental eggs and sperm.

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The ladder to adulthood has been kicked away firmly thanks to high house prises. It really is that simple.

+ 25,000,000

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In hindsight, I wish I had become a GP. All of my friends who did so have done more or less what you have - bought a house early, and by 30 started having a real life. One joined the circus (yes, really, and he was so straight at school - still waters run deep!) another one used to joins in with expeditions and spent a lot of the year free climbing. He now is semi retired at 40, staying at home watching his kids grow and working part time (house paid off). Medicine as a career opens up a lot of non-standard options.

I think anyone who had the aptitudes and acadmeic opportunities to have become a GP will have regretted not doing so by now, I have never heard of any non-management job earning so much, this was a massive economic issue

At least many GPs are mostly smart enough to realise how lucky they were for this

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It's really only number 4 above and, more importantly, the great lottery of the income and inherited wealth of parental and grand parental eggs and sperm.

???

Who did you have to know to get your job?

I didn't know the people who employ me until my first interview. I don't know anyone personally who got a job because they had a "mate who managed to get them in" despite being completely unqualified.

Perhaps when you have spent a certain amount of time in an industry your reputation may proceed you sufficiently that an interview becomes a mere formality.. but that is hardly the same thing.

Perhaps I just move in the wrong circles :rolleyes:

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Sorry for not having RTFA, but "kidadults"? Can they be more patronising? I'm telling you, bring 30-50% falls in property and soon, these freaks are asking for it. I thought this type of patronising, nauseating bull was over years ago. I've been to those dinner parties (circa 2007) where the BTL piggies have mothered me with their concern about me not having stepped on the "ladder", I missed the freaking boat - yeah. Only because I understand that buying at the top of the market is the act of a damned reckless fool. Bring their demise, bring it, let me see it. I'm patient though, have waited for some years, and to be fair, it has been easy as I have no family yet to cater for. So I'm poised, I'm taking on these faux rich, these leveraged pigs. We'll fairly see who is the "kidadult" once the margin calls start coming in... See who goes crying to their daddy once the reality kicks in. "Kidadults" pah :angry: :angry:

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Everyone's for social mobility - but nobody wants to move down.

Unfortunately, the biggest blockers in social mobility are:

1) Accent, manners and etiquette

2) Education

3) House Prices

4) Who you know

Weird this ... I was wondering the other day whether the old gentile and upperclass snobbery about "being in trade" might actually have allowed a level of economic possibility across socio-economic groups that we just don't have today.

And it is really worth considering what the impact would be if our culture upheld the idea that once you got to a certain level of wealth, the done thing was to retire from the economic world and become an amateur ornithologist or something.

There's something to be said for the idle rich: they don't take up jobs that other people need more than they do.

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Sorry for not having RTFA, but "kidadults"? Can they be more patronising? I'm telling you, bring 30-50% falls in property and soon, these freaks are asking for it. I thought this type of patronising, nauseating bull was over years ago. I've been to those dinner parties (circa 2007) where the BTL piggies have mothered me with their concern about me not having stepped on the "ladder", I missed the freaking boat - yeah. Only because I understand that buying at the top of the market is the act of a damned reckless fool. Bring their demise, bring it, let me see it. I'm patient though, have waited for some years, and to be fair, it has been easy as I have no family yet to cater for. So I'm poised, I'm taking on these faux rich, these leveraged pigs. We'll fairly see who is the "kidadult" once the margin calls start coming in... See who goes crying to their daddy once the reality kicks in. "Kidadults" pah :angry: :angry:

what happens to the reverse halo promoted-cos-you-have-properdie incompetents?

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In 1900 only about 9% of families were owner occupiers, the rest rented.

Does that mean that in 1900 91% of the population never achieved adulthood?

And yet back then people left school earlier, got jobs and got married, had kids etc etc, without ever owning houses at all...... how on earth did they manage?

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  • 261 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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