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uncle_monty

Cancel Tax Revaluation Cancelled

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Before folk start banging on about paying more tax I must point out that the council tax banding system is a relative value tool.

If all the house in an area have doubled in value in a uniform fashion the houses that were in band D will still be in D.

To use a car analogy, Vectras and Mondeos are still an average car and although worth more in pound notes now than they were 20 years ago, they are not relatively worth more.

However, a Skoda is now a much better car than it used to be and would have moved from a band A to perhaps a B or even a C. A BMW or a Merc on the other hand may have dropped one band as they have become more common.

In any event, the house value bands are broad and the chances of any dramatic changes are slim. I know that we constantly hear about 1/3 of house in Wales going up a band in their revaluation but Wales is not representative of the majority of houses in England.

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The elites HATE valuing real estate accurately, they'll anything they can to avoid it in case the proles start getting uppity.

They keep accurate and up to date figures on employment: gotta keep an eye on the serfs.

They'll also willingly measure the price of sausage rolls on a monthly basis and include it in CPI/RPI

But property, (an entire factor of production)? Nope we can't measure this, it infringes on the 'uman rights of landlords to hide the source of their wealth from the state.

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The elites HATE valuing real estate accurately, they'll anything they can to avoid it in case the proles start getting uppity.

Not really, once you're in band H, there's nowhere to go. Revaluing a £3m house to £4m isn't going to change the band.

No, it's the middle class who are likely to move between bands that aren't going to be happy.

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One thing I realised about council tax recently is that if you extend or make improvements, your upwards rebanding stays pending until a sale. So you can buy a band A house, extend it to band H (subject to P/P) and still only pay band A as long as you stay there.

In my case, I plan to buy a band E house and extend it to band G, saving £600 per year for the next 40 years (hopefully), a fair wodge of tax-free savings.

If the rebanding is put off, it is in my interests to delay improvements.

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The elites HATE valuing real estate accurately, they'll anything they can to avoid it in case the proles start getting uppity.

What nonsense. The proles have a very good idea of house prices - there's a TV prgramme on it every week.

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Before folk start banging on about paying more tax I must point out that the council tax banding system is a relative value tool.

If all the house in an area have doubled in value in a uniform fashion the houses that were in band D will still be in D.

To use a car analogy, Vectras and Mondeos are still an average car and although worth more in pound notes now than they were 20 years ago, they are not relatively worth more.

However, a Skoda is now a much better car than it used to be and would have moved from a band A to perhaps a B or even a C. A BMW or a Merc on the other hand may have dropped one band as they have become more common.

In any event, the house value bands are broad and the chances of any dramatic changes are slim. I know that we constantly hear about 1/3 of house in Wales going up a band in their revaluation but Wales is not representative of the majority of houses in England.

Actually, I think the relative values of certain properties have changed, and a lot of it is to do with changing tastes/fashion.

20 odd years ago, our house (then only a couple of decades old) was valued at roughly the same as Mr B's folks' house just a few miles away - a good sized Edwardian semi. We could have sold ours and bought theirs when they finally downsized with very little difference in price. If any.

Since then the value of the period semi (or the price someone is prepared to pay for it) has rocketed by comparison.

Similarly, just a short walk from here, are small 2-bed Victorian cottages which 20 years ago would have sold for relative peanuts.

Since these are now fashionable, however small and with no parking etc., their relative value (even taking into account that most of these are now done up, and then very likely weren't) has also shot up compared with other types of property.

So if you go on current value, or the relative price someone is still prepared to pay, many period houses around here that were (say) a band C years ago, would very likely come out as a band D now, or even more.

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Actually, I think the relative values of certain properties have changed, and a lot of it is to do with changing tastes/fashion.

20 odd years ago, our house (then only a couple of decades old) was valued at roughly the same as Mr B's folks' house just a few miles away - a good sized Edwardian semi. We could have sold ours and bought theirs when they finally downsized with very little difference in price. If any.

Since then the value of the period semi (or the price someone is prepared to pay for it) has rocketed by comparison.

Similarly, just a short walk from here, are small 2-bed Victorian cottages which 20 years ago would have sold for relative peanuts.

Since these are now fashionable, however small and with no parking etc., their relative value (even taking into account that most of these are now done up, and then very likely weren't) has also shot up compared with other types of property.

So if you go on current value, or the relative price someone is still prepared to pay, many period houses around here that were (say) a band C years ago, would very likely come out as a band D now, or even more.

But strangely you only talk of values going up. You could have worded that whole post only talking about how less fashionable houses were worth relatively less.

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One thing I realised about council tax recently is that if you extend or make improvements, your upwards rebanding stays pending until a sale. So you can buy a band A house, extend it to band H (subject to P/P) and still only pay band A as long as you stay there.

In my case, I plan to buy a band E house and extend it to band G, saving £600 per year for the next 40 years (hopefully), a fair wodge of tax-free savings.

If the rebanding is put off, it is in my interests to delay improvements.

The last line of your post contradicts the rest. If the rebanding is put off you will get away with not paying the higher band for longer.

If a revaluation is carried out the new values would not be held pending until a sale goes through. They would be applied reasonably quickly to all properties incorrectly banded.

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Fantastic. In a couple of years we will have a residential property tax system based on valuations more than 20 years old. This will mean the Council Tax will being calculated on figures even more out of date than the old residential property rates used prior to the introduction of the Community Charge. Obviously this is one 'tough' decision that the coalition are only too happy to bottle.

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From the news release on the Communities and Local Government website:

There are also plans for a broader local government resource review that will examine the way councils are funded, to provide greater financial freedoms and decrease dependency on Whitehall funding

Since council tax is only a small part of local authorities funding, this looks like a kick in the teeth to them from central government. Not only are they going to slash their outlays, but this makes it much more difficult to re-coop the losses through council taxes.

Not much of a freedom if all you can do is cut. Maybe they think LAs will make it up in bond issuance.

Seems the only winners are the landed rich.

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Since council tax is only a small part of local authorities funding, this looks like a kick in the teeth to them from central government. Not only are they going to slash their outlays, but this makes it much more difficult to re-coop the losses through council taxes.

......re-coop from reduction of bloated salaries and headcount.....don't come and be subsidised by central taxpayers funding ....time has been called on the overspending local councils ....could you afford these salaries in the local private sector ....?..... :rolleyes:

Edited by South Lorne

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What nonsense. The proles have a very good idea of house prices - there's a TV prgramme on it every week.

Why are they so reluctant to keep the valuations up to date then?

It's because it won't look very good when property owners' wealth of £5trn is taxed at 0.5%, but workers' wages which are worth £1trn are taxed at 40%.

If their statistics were this blunt people might start asking awkward questions.

Edited by Chef

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Why is there no reference in the Government's announcement apologising to all those people who would see their bills fall following a revaluation - as their house has risen by less in value than the national average so they move down a band.

Or because they are mainly in the north and north east no one (including the Sun and Express) is interested.

The spin on revaluation is amazing - the Government can know my personal income but not the value of the house I live in. And all the talk of spies - its hilariously ridiculous!

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Even if they revalued it at current property price levels with the same fixed bands I'd still be in Band A.

Even with my 25% single person reduction on a band A property, I'd still be paying more than a band D property in Westminister.

I don't even own my property, the council owns it, and I'm unemployed. I claim council benefit from the council to pay the council tax. Over 10% of my income derived from benefits is the council tax-benefit based upon the property value. 50% of my benefits is the housing benefit.

As I become long term unemployed I lose my vested interest in lower rent and tax, as the state pays themselves out of taxpayers money.

As a taxpayer it is in your interest to have the tax upon the unemployed reduced, along with the rent. As it is the working poor whom pay it. And if your earning less than £100K that is essentially you.

Edited by Unemployed Youth

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Fantastic. In a couple of years we will have a residential property tax system based on valuations more than 20 years old. This will mean the Council Tax will being calculated on figures even more out of date than the old residential property rates used prior to the introduction of the Community Charge. Obviously this is one 'tough' decision that the coalition are only too happy to bottle.

it dosnt make any difference how property prices go up and down, or it shoudnt. This talk of revaluation was just a labour conspiracy to extract higher level of council tax , and to suck more from those that pay it. How does it make any difference to the cost of services required, just because a house has doubled in price. Bring on the cutbacks, and reduce the council tax.

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The last line of your post contradicts the rest. If the rebanding is put off you will get away with not paying the higher band for longer.

If a revaluation is carried out the new values would not be held pending until a sale goes through. They would be applied reasonably quickly to all properties incorrectly banded.

If I improve now, I save for 5 years.

If I improve after the rebanding, I save for the next 30+ years.

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  • 140 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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