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Hi

This is my first post, but I've been reading stuff on here for ages, and would really appreciate some advice or opinions!

Our house has been on the market for 2 months and we just got an offer (only had 5 viewers). We had already reduced the price by 10k, they offered a further 15k less again. Reluctantly, we have accepted it, as we have already found a house we want (after months of searching), and don't want to lose it. We won't have any spare cash at this price, just enough to cover all the normal fees/stamp duty etc.

Our buyer hasn't had the survey done yet, although I'm told the mortgage application has been sent off. (Apparently, she has a large deposit & mortgage agreed in principle).

It was last Friday that we received and accepted her offer, but for some reason, the estate agent said they would keep the house on the market until things had progressed further. They said it was normal practice (?). Just 3 days later, on Monday, we had another viewing, and we couldn't believe it when he offered the full asking price!

Now we're in a dilemma, not least because we don't want to let our first buyer down, and gazumping just isn't the done thing. But the extra 15k would enable us to do what needs doing in the new house. Some have said we'd be mad not to accept the higher offer, others have said it sounds too good to be true, my parents are taking the moral highground...........

The EA said he had only just met the 2nd buyer, and although had verified his financials, wasn't sure he was as committed as the first buyer. So, he suggested asking the 2nd buyer for a deposit to show how serious he was - buyer refused, saying I either accepted the offer or didn't!

Just don't know what to do! Any advice or suggestions?

Apologies for the leeengthy post!

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regardless of how much has been offered

1st buyer has offered you a sum of money that has been verified as correct and present,

you found a house you like

1st buyers sum covers expenses

1st buyer sound genuine

2nd buyer offers you a sum of money that they are not prepaired to have verified so no way to check they are genuine

i dont see the issue.

you run the risk that if you go with the second buyer, you could p!ss off your seller and they might pull out, and if you go back to the 1st buyer she may say no, you'll then be left with a house you want to sell, no where to move to and no one to buy.

if the second buyer falls through can you afford to have your house on the market for another 2 months+?

personally and depending on your personaly position (ie actual need to move) i rather the genuine sell and move than the prospect of getting a possibile (fictisous) extra £15k.

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regardless of how much has been offered

1st buyer has offered you a sum of money that has been verified as correct and present,

you found a house you like

1st buyers sum covers expenses

1st buyer sound genuine

2nd buyer offers you a sum of money that they are not prepaired to have verified so no way to check they are genuine

i dont see the issue.

you run the risk that if you go with the second buyer, you could p!ss off your seller and they might pull out, and if you go back to the 1st buyer she may say no, you'll then be left with a house you want to sell, no where to move to and no one to buy.

if the second buyer falls through can you afford to have your house on the market for another 2 months+?

personally and depending on your personaly position (ie actual need to move) i rather the genuine sell and move than the prospect of getting a possibile (fictisous) extra £15k.

I think if the first buyer was made aware that their offer was accepted but the marketing would continue, then they should be made aware of the 2nd buyer offer and asked to match it. Otherwise, it is that wrong thing called gazumping. If you did not want to accept the other offer, then you should not have done so. I have made this same mistake in the past and then wished i had waited for the right offer. In my case a better offer was then made by a past viewer! Slightly different than your situation.

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regardless of how much has been offered

1st buyer has offered you a sum of money that has been verified as correct and present,

you found a house you like

1st buyers sum covers expenses

1st buyer sound genuine

2nd buyer offers you a sum of money that they are not prepaired to have verified so no way to check they are genuine

i dont see the issue.

you run the risk that if you go with the second buyer, you could p!ss off your seller and they might pull out, and if you go back to the 1st buyer she may say no, you'll then be left with a house you want to sell, no where to move to and no one to buy.

if the second buyer falls through can you afford to have your house on the market for another 2 months+?

personally and depending on your personaly position (ie actual need to move) i rather the genuine sell and move than the prospect of getting a possibile (fictisous) extra £15k.

Thank you, you've really helped to confirm my gut feeling. I've just spoken to the EA and told him we'll stick with the original buyer. I think they should have taken it off the market once we'd accepted an offer. Not the best EA in the world, really haven't been impressed with them, but that's another story.....

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Hi

This is my first post, but I've been reading stuff on here for ages, and would really appreciate some advice or opinions!

Our house has been on the market for 2 months and we just got an offer (only had 5 viewers). We had already reduced the price by 10k, they offered a further 15k less again. Reluctantly, we have accepted it, as we have already found a house we want (after months of searching), and don't want to lose it. We won't have any spare cash at this price, just enough to cover all the normal fees/stamp duty etc.

Our buyer hasn't had the survey done yet, although I'm told the mortgage application has been sent off. (Apparently, she has a large deposit & mortgage agreed in principle).

It was last Friday that we received and accepted her offer, but for some reason, the estate agent said they would keep the house on the market until things had progressed further. They said it was normal practice (?). Just 3 days later, on Monday, we had another viewing, and we couldn't believe it when he offered the full asking price!

Now we're in a dilemma, not least because we don't want to let our first buyer down, and gazumping just isn't the done thing. But the extra 15k would enable us to do what needs doing in the new house. Some have said we'd be mad not to accept the higher offer, others have said it sounds too good to be true, my parents are taking the moral highground...........

The EA said he had only just met the 2nd buyer, and although had verified his financials, wasn't sure he was as committed as the first buyer. So, he suggested asking the 2nd buyer for a deposit to show how serious he was - buyer refused, saying I either accepted the offer or didn't!

Just don't know what to do! Any advice or suggestions?

Apologies for the leeengthy post!

but for some reason, the estate agent said they would keep the house on the market until things had progressed further. They said it was normal practice (?).

Having recently sold - and what a nightmare it was in terms of hassle and stress - I imagine your agents are advising you to keep the property on the market until things have moved a lot further along. I was told by my agents that a mortgage offer these days may not be worth the paper it is written on - when a prospective buyer's application is processed properly and thoroughly then it may transpire that they are not able to borrow as much as they thought. So, in this market, I think you EA is actually giving good advice. Best to note other potential buyers in the event your buyer has to drop out. There are buyers out there who have plenty of good will and fully intend to buy - but do not realise how thorough the mortgage approval process is and/or have unrealistic expectations of how much they will be able to borrow.

Perhaps - if you don't already have it - download propertybee and see just how many properties in your area are going under offer - and then weeks/months later are again available. This market is an extremely difficult and choppy one to sell in.

As for whether you go with the offer you have already accepted or the new offer, that's a matter of choice for you. You and your agent agreed to do another viewing, which has resulted in the second higher offer. And it may be that the agent wanted to do this because it's very early days, and your first potential buyer has not yet had time to take any action (like a survey) which would indicate that they are able/committed to seeing the process through. I don't believe there is a 'right' or 'wrong' decsion to be made here, the market is very tough indeed for sellers right now and you need to make the decision that's right for you. If you decide to continue with your first potential buyer then you have the option of telling your estate agents that there are to be no more viewings. Good luck!

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Thank you, you've really helped to confirm my gut feeling. I've just spoken to the EA and told him we'll stick with the original buyer. I think they should have taken it off the market once we'd accepted an offer. Not the best EA in the world, really haven't been impressed with them, but that's another story.....

"Not the best EA". FFS he just got you 15K more than you wanted!

Nothing is sold until it's in writing. Its very simple but no-one seems to be able to live with it. Even if you want to 'do the right thing' (and there is nothing wrong with that) - for your own sake you should assume that your buyer could pull out at any moment. If he reads HPC and we have a few months of falls on the indices, I can almost guarantee he'll amend his offer after survey (or will be forced to amend it by a conservative valuer).

You should at least find out more about the second buyer. If they can complete quickly I would give them the chance to do so. If you feel guilty about your original buyers you can refund them their costs out of the extra money you've made. You could even tell your original buyers "We've had another offer at full asking, we want to respect your offer and will do so but are allowing the other party to proceed with survey/legals. In the meantime we wanted to be open about things with you. We will only proceed with them if you are unable to complete by [date]." Personally I suspect that they wont be able to cope with the complexity of that or will throw a hissy fit, so better to just shut up and let the others continue if they wish - and fi they get there first make amends with your original buyers later.

Real gazumping (and gazundering for that matter) - which is genuinely nasty - is when people change their price the day before exchange - forcing people to make hurried decisions under pressure when they may already be in chains etc. Personally I wouldn't feel to rotten about telling someone a day or two into the process that you're pulling out/have a better offer.

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Here is my buyer perspective, if my offer is accepted and the wheels are in motion, if I got wind that the property is still being marketed (actively or otherwise) my offer will be off the table quicker than you can bat an eyelid. Simply put, I'm not here to shake on a deal then begin incurring costs; only to find out the property is being touted about by the EA for a better price. I'm a proceedable buyer, that makes me golden in this market right now. The EA should be telling any other callers that the property sale is proceeding as normal, and that no more viewing are being undertaken - the intrested party can have their details taken and advised if the deal falls through.

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"Not the best EA". FFS he just got you 15K more than you wanted!

Nothing is sold until it's in writing. Its very simple but no-one seems to be able to live with it. Even if you want to 'do the right thing' (and there is nothing wrong with that) - for your own sake you should assume that your buyer could pull out at any moment. If he reads HPC and we have a few months of falls on the indices, I can almost guarantee he'll amend his offer after survey (or will be forced to amend it by a conservative valuer).

You should at least find out more about the second buyer. If they can complete quickly I would give them the chance to do so. If you feel guilty about your original buyers you can refund them their costs out of the extra money you've made. You could even tell your original buyers "We've had another offer at full asking, we want to respect your offer and will do so but are allowing the other party to proceed with survey/legals. In the meantime we wanted to be open about things with you. We will only proceed with them if you are unable to complete by [date]." Personally I suspect that they wont be able to cope with the complexity of that or will throw a hissy fit, so better to just shut up and let the others continue if they wish - and fi they get there first make amends with your original buyers later.

Real gazumping (and gazundering for that matter) - which is genuinely nasty - is when people change their price the day before exchange - forcing people to make hurried decisions under pressure when they may already be in chains etc. Personally I wouldn't feel to rotten about telling someone a day or two into the process that you're pulling out/have a better offer.

Firstly, he didn't exactly get me 15k more than I wanted - but it was more than I needed for usual fees etc. The price we've accepted is still 25k less than original asking price - which, incidentally, is exactly what 2 identical properties in the development sold for 3 months ago. And although the money might be the most important issue, there's far more to being a good EA than just getting a good price, in my opinion.

I did try to find out as much as I could about the second buyer - how else could I hope to make a decision - but the EA had only just met him and only knew how much he earned & that he had said a mortgage wasn't a problem. Anyway, it's academic now, as I've told the EA we will proceed with the original buyer, whose own buyer is a first-timer, so a short chain. There is no chain above the house we're buying either. (The second buyer had no chain either, it was something to do with a divorce settlement etc.) The EA said he hadn't told the first buyer that we'd had another offer, he said they're already at their limit so it would be fruitless.

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Here is my buyer perspective, if my offer is accepted and the wheels are in motion, if I got wind that the property is still being marketed (actively or otherwise) my offer will be off the table quicker than you can bat an eyelid. Simply put, I'm not here to shake on a deal then begin incurring costs; only to find out the property is being touted about by the EA for a better price. I'm a proceedable buyer, that makes me golden in this market right now. The EA should be telling any other callers that the property sale is proceeding as normal, and that no more viewing are being undertaken - the intrested party can have their details taken and advised if the deal falls through.

+1

I also take my offer off the table and inform the Estate Agent and vendor that if they want to proceed with me they need to confirm that they will do so without marketing the property any further, or take any other offers, and that they need to confirm this for me within the next 24 hours. If they don't respond positively within 24 hours I inform them that they are welcome to come back to me at a later stage but my offer will be reduced by a further 5%, and that this reduction will be non-negotiable. I do all this in a polite and business like fashion and it does tend to focus their minds.

Edited by Alfie Moon

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Good morning Meg32

Thank you for your very balanced reply! As regards my agreeing to another viewing after having accepted an offer, it transpires the agents at my branch didn't communicate with each other, so the person who made the appt didn't even know I'd already accepted an offer!

I do have propertybee, and there are a few properties in my area that are STC then available again etc. It would be interesting to know the most common reasons for sales to fall through, I'm sure I could find out if I had time to do the research.

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply, it's helped to ease me through my dilemma. Here's to hoping for a move before Christmas!

Best wishes to anyone and everyone in their own endeavours to buy and sell....and finally move.

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Morning !

It would be interesting to know the most common reasons for sales to fall through,

The mortgage squeeze - potential buyers not having realistic ideas about how much they can borrow, needing a very good credit record etc. - my agents specifically warned me about this when my property went on the market. Be prepared, just in case.

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Morning !

It would be interesting to know the most common reasons for sales to fall through,

IME It's people thinking that they can get a bigger loan than they really can. (and I don't mean against any particular house, just generally).

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The EA said he had only just met the 2nd buyer, and although had verified his financials, wasn't sure he was as committed as the first buyer.

What does he mean 'as committed'? Are both buyers chain free and in a proceedable position? We had a similar situation when we sold our house, and took the higher offer. I felt a bit bad for a while, but 15 grand is a lot of money! Its not like your first buyer is financially out of pocket as he hasn't had a survey done yet. And when you offer significantly below the asking price you have to accept your exposing yourself to gazumping.

I'd take the money! You'll kick yourself if you don't and the first buyer pulls out just before exchange.

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What does he mean 'as committed'? Are both buyers chain free and in a proceedable position? We had a similar situation when we sold our house, and took the higher offer. I felt a bit bad for a while, but 15 grand is a lot of money! Its not like your first buyer is financially out of pocket as he hasn't had a survey done yet. And when you offer significantly below the asking price you have to accept your exposing yourself to gazumping.

I'd take the money! You'll kick yourself if you don't and the first buyer pulls out just before exchange.

Just when I was satisfied with my decision!!!

You're right, 15k is a lot of money! Hence the dilemma. I did ask the EA what he meant by 'committed', he said the fact the buyer wasn't willing to put down a 5k deposit that he would only lose if he pulled out, and the fact the he hasn't contacted EA since, was enough to convince him he wasn't as serious a buyer as the first one. This buyer is chain free and the original buyer is selling to FTBs, who have had their survey done & mortgage approved. No other surveys have been carried out yet.

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I find the whole concept of a buyer having to put down a deposit to secure a property which will be lost if that buyer pulls out bizarre, since there may be a myriad of valid reasons why a buyer won't proceed - such as a bad survey or a lower valuation than the price offered. In those situations, why on earth should the prospective buyer lose the deposit?

I was asked to do this once by an estate agent when I made an offer on a house which someone else was also very interested in: I told him I was not prepared to play this game and after a quiet word with him from my solicitor he dropped the request.

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Hi

This is my first post, but I've been reading stuff on here for ages, and would really appreciate some advice or opinions!

Our house has been on the market for 2 months and we just got an offer (only had 5 viewers). We had already reduced the price by 10k, they offered a further 15k less again. Reluctantly, we have accepted it, as we have already found a house we want (after months of searching), and don't want to lose it. We won't have any spare cash at this price, just enough to cover all the normal fees/stamp duty etc.

Our buyer hasn't had the survey done yet, although I'm told the mortgage application has been sent off. (Apparently, she has a large deposit & mortgage agreed in principle).

It was last Friday that we received and accepted her offer, but for some reason, the estate agent said they would keep the house on the market until things had progressed further. They said it was normal practice (?). Just 3 days later, on Monday, we had another viewing, and we couldn't believe it when he offered the full asking price!

Now we're in a dilemma, not least because we don't want to let our first buyer down, and gazumping just isn't the done thing. But the extra 15k would enable us to do what needs doing in the new house. Some have said we'd be mad not to accept the higher offer, others have said it sounds too good to be true, my parents are taking the moral highground...........

The EA said he had only just met the 2nd buyer, and although had verified his financials, wasn't sure he was as committed as the first buyer. So, he suggested asking the 2nd buyer for a deposit to show how serious he was - buyer refused, saying I either accepted the offer or didn't!

Just don't know what to do! Any advice or suggestions?

Apologies for the leeengthy post!

Just a thought but were you there when the second viewing took place? Seems strange that you have few viewings and no offers for two months and then two offers in as many days. Is it possible that Mondays viewers are a fictitious attempt by your agents to get the Friday viewers to up their offer closer to asking - would explain why your agent is trying to put you off the second viewers!!

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And from the Property Ombudsman's Code of Practice for Sales:

http://www.tpos.co.uk/downloads/IES02_code%20of%20practice_sales.pdf

8. Deposits

In England, Wales and Northern Ireland

8a As a general rule, you should not take pre-contract deposits, which have no validity in law and can give consumers a false

sense of security. However, in the case of new home sales, you may take into account specific instructions from sellers. If

a deposit is taken, then a written receipt must be given, and the circumstances under which the deposit and any interest

accrued are refundable must be clearly stated in writing.

adequate insurance.

8c Any money held must by law be in a separate client account or accounts, as set out in the Estate Agents (Accounts)

8d By law you must not deduct any cost or charges from any client’s money you hold, unless your client has given you

you give your client sufficient notice prior to the deduction to object to it.

Sorry, the copy and paste has not worked properly. Follow the link and see section 8 of the Code of Practice.

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Just a thought but were you there when the second viewing took place? Seems strange that you have few viewings and no offers for two months and then two offers in as many days. Is it possible that Mondays viewers are a fictitious attempt by your agents to get the Friday viewers to up their offer closer to asking - would explain why your agent is trying to put you off the second viewers!!

I have been present during every viewing. I've tried to think of every possible scenario. The offer we finally accepted from the first buyer was in fact the third one they made, which is another reason why I feel they're serious - although the first offer was so far off the mark I thought it was a joke!

Although the EA hasn't done things by the book (none of the offers in writing etc - apart from agreed one), I'd hate to think they would be so unscrupulous as to invent a buyer! Having said that, obviously it's rare to hear anything positive regarding EAs, but that could just be because people in general prefer to complain than to praise!

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And from the Property Ombudsman's Code of Practice for Sales:

http://www.tpos.co.u...ctice_sales.pdf

Thank you for the link, interesting reading (not just regarding deposits).

My husband agreed with the 2nd buyer - and with Ginnie's post - saying he'd never give a deposit, there are so many reasons why a sale can fall through that it wouldn't be worth the risk. The deposit was EA's idea, not mine - I just wanted confirmation that 2nd buyer at least had a mortgage in principle, the EA said asking for a deposit was the only way to prove the buyer was serious. In fact, the EA seemed incredulous that the man refused!

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I'd never hand over a deposit to show I'm serious - it seems a ridiculous idea to me.

One final thing worry about is whether or not the estate agent has any conflict of interest. For example, if the first buyer is using the agents recommended solicitors or in-house mortgage broker, which would mean the agent would lose a commission if you went with the second buyer.

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I have been present during every viewing. I've tried to think of every possible scenario. The offer we finally accepted from the first buyer was in fact the third one they made, which is another reason why I feel they're serious - although the first offer was so far off the mark I thought it was a joke!

Although the EA hasn't done things by the book (none of the offers in writing etc - apart from agreed one), I'd hate to think they would be so unscrupulous as to invent a buyer! Having said that, obviously it's rare to hear anything positive regarding EAs, but that could just be because people in general prefer to complain than to praise!

You have more faith than I do in the honesty and integrity of a saleperson!!

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One final thing worry about is whether or not the estate agent has any conflict of interest. For example, if the first buyer is using the agents recommended solicitors or in-house mortgage broker, which would mean the agent would lose a commission if you went with the second buyer.

On the same note maybe your agents are also selling the first buyers house and therefore there are two sales commission payments at stake hence their preference for you to go for the first offer rather than the second person's house being marketed by Joe Bloggs?

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Well, as far as I know, the first buyer's house is not being sold through the same agent. However, the mortgage IS being arranged through them, for which they get some sort of commission - hadn't thought about that side of things, conflict of interest etc........

Also, I'm trying very hard to believe in what the EA has told me about the commitment of the first buyer; apparently the mortgage stuff went off a week ago, but no survey has been done on our house yet, whilst we sorted our mortgage out just last Friday and the survey's being done tomorrow. Don't know what the delay is for my buyer... unless the EA's just telling me untruths, and no paperwork has been done at all, sigh..dry.gif

(poppyoscoe, it's not so much that I have more faith in the honesty and integrity of a saleperson, more that I try very, very hard to have faith in them!)

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(poppyoscoe, it's not so much that I have more faith in the honesty and integrity of a saleperson, more that I try very, very hard to have faith in them!)

Keep the faith - or trying to - it will get you through the next few stressful weeks!! Good luck with whichever buyer you end up selling to - hope it all goes as smoothly as possible for you.

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Many thanks poppyoscoe!

(Bit perturbed at the moment, discovered the vendor is away for a month!!! I'm guessing that means we won't be exchanging any time soon..... Oh well, at least it gives us more time for packing!)

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  • 140 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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