One In Three Call Centre Workers Is A Graduate

[silver surfer]

Isn't there so many kids going to university to get degrees because employers are asking for degrees, or am I missing something?

If someone wants to get into some form of media and job adverts specify a degree in media studies, then clearly that's what's needed.

I work in "media" and there's very little chance I'd recruit anyone with a Media Studies degree. Why would I? There are thousands of applications every year, just whittling them down to firsts or 2:1's from top universities still leaves hundreds of applicants for half a dozen jobs. To stand a chance of a management trainee position you'd need outstanding academic qualifications in a rigorous and demanding subject, fluency in a second language, evidence of athletic achievement or real competence with a musical instrument...plus very good teeth like these

Any evidence of chavishness

lack of maturity

the wrong complexion

or physical deformity

would see you shown the door and invited to try your luck on X Factor.

[Frank Hovis]

Ha ha Frank! I'll believe they do!

Totally agree that generally the subject does not matter too much!

I had an agent moan at me about that! I needed a temp and there were two similar people doing a similar temp job at a similar organisation, sent the CVs through and I said I'll see that one. He asked what was wrong with the other one and I said Media Studies degree, which he didn't like and which I'm sure got passed on.

[shipbuilder]

You couldn't be more wrong, almost no one is looking for people with a degree in media studies. Even if you want to work somewhere like the BBC I'm sure they prefer a more professional subject so it's just stupid to do media studies. There is no relationship between the number and type of degrees and the types of jobs available.

Also most jobs don't need degrees, it's just now that so many people are going to university employers are using it as an effortless way to find more dedicated and hardworking employees.

I don't think this necessarily corresponds to cleverer or better performing candidates, I'm sure there are other people like myself who are very capable but don't have any motivation to get a "career" as a slave which is how I view almost all the 40 hour/ week jobs out there except a handful where either the pay is very good or has good job satisfaction.

So how do universities decide what degrees to offer? Are you saying that there is no input from industry as to what qualifications are needed for the jobs they are offering? If not, then whose fault is that?

[Saberu]

So how do universities decide what degrees to offer? Are you saying that there is no input from industry as to what qualifications are needed for the jobs they are offering? If not, then whose fault is that?

Damn right there's no input. Just look at all the people who study/studied CCNA networking courses and compare that to the number of jobs out there which actually involve managing networks. My brother is the network manager for Medion's head office, he manages the whole network by himself- a whole head office. I think that proves how few job oppurtunities in this field are available out there.

He is a good example of an exceptional graduate, he's got a 1st from a respectable university in the IT field and was very lucky to get the job he did as the existing manager left so he started taking over the responsiblities while doing his existing call support job. And yet he's probably on about 25k I would guess, pretty comfortable but nothing to boast about and at the end of the day I think he has to work hard in his job to get the salary.

The field I personally work in is worth $100s billions yet I still haven't seen a single university even teaching the basics of it in a course, I've managed to become somewhat of an expert in the field through self study and probably learned much more than I would doing a degree in the same topic. I value my skills in this area over any qualification or peice of paper I could have my name on. If I went the career route I would have hit an income ceiling of probably 30-40k but working for myself the sky is the limit. Oh and my skill can directly take advantage of Chinese production, as opposed to being the enemy of it like needing a job in the UK would be.

Edited September 26, 2010 by Saberu

[Lone_Twin]

I think you need to revise your 'age of realisation' upwards, Melchy. I'm 46 and, when recruiting, a modern degree is no more worth to me than the waves on the sea. Most of my friends also discriminate between proper degrees from proper universities and those who merely spent 4 years putting off the fateful day of starting work.

Nothing wrong with putting off work!

Most people I know would like to retire early, why get sh1tty if someone does it at the other end of their life while the liver and the girls are fitter?

My degree was personally handed to me on graduation day by Mr M. Mouse, it's not held me back so far though I am now aplying to a big corporate for the first time so we'll see if I make it past the HR dollies.

[Lone_Twin]

Briefly summarised as:

- Education: Bad

- Equality: Bad

- Law: Bad

- Greed: Good

- Killing People: Good

In other words, the same old libertarian nonsense. Grow up.

It dosn't say any of those things.

[Snugglybear]

So how do universities decide what degrees to offer? Are you saying that there is no input from industry as to what qualifications are needed for the jobs they are offering? If not, then whose fault is that?

I've got a daughter applying to university this year, I've taught a module in a teacher-training-college-turned-university, and I have acquaintances who work in various jobs at universities.

The impression I get is that universities are now mostly organisations selling degrees. The customers are the students, they're the ones deciding where they go and therefore to which institution their fees get paid. So if the kids want to do media studies, then the sensible university will offer a degree in media studies. And so on.

Bums on seats, laddie, bums on seats.

If someone decides we need more engineers, for instance, then I suspect that someone will have to pay the kids to take engineering courses and the universities to provide them.

Though buying in ready educated/trained engineers from abroad is obviously quicker and could be cheaper.

[Maggot_with_halitosis]

THIS LIKE SUKCS COS I GONE DUN A DEGREE LARST YEER AN IT WUZ GUD AN I GOT LIKE A FIRST IN LIKE DAVID BECKAM STUDYS OR SUMFING AN I GOT LIKE FOR A LEVULS SO IM LIKE TOTALY CLEVAR AND SHUD BE LIKE ERNING LIKE AT LEEST FIVETY GRAND NOT LIKE THEM THICK TWQTS AND PPL WHO DUNNO SHIT LIKE ME AND OO X FACTOR RIPEET IS ON I GOT 2 GO FWOR ID REELY DO THAT CHERL COAL SHES LIKE TOTALY FIT

[Harry Monk]

. So if the kids want to do media studies, then the sensible university will offer a degree in media studies. And so on.

Forgive me for asking an "old person question" but what exactly is "media studies". Is it a euphemism for "watching telly"?

[Radge]

THIS LIKE SUKCS COS I GONE DUN A DEGREE LARST YEER AN IT WUZ GUD AN I GOT LIKE A FIRST IN LIKE DAVID BECKAM STUDYS OR SUMFING AN I GOT LIKE FOR A LEVULS SO IM LIKE TOTALY CLEVAR AND SHUD BE LIKE ERNING LIKE AT LEEST FIVETY GRAND NOT LIKE THEM THICK TWQTS AND PPL WHO DUNNO SHIT LIKE ME AND OO X FACTOR RIPEET IS ON I GOT 2 GO FWOR ID REELY DO THAT CHERL COAL SHES LIKE TOTALY FIT

Brilliant! Would probably earn a first at Princess Diana University College (Formerly South Shields Apprentice's College), or a D. Litt from Nelson Mandela University Brixton.

Edited September 27, 2010 by Radge

[PopGun]

Brilliant! Would probably earn a first at Princess Diana University College (Formerly South Shields Apprentice's College), or a D. Litt from Nelson Mandela University Brixton.

Oh Apprenticeships, remember them boys and girls? No I don't either, but they did used to be on offer, and in abundance. However a mixture of crack-pot politics and aspirational quasi lower middle class parental snobbery helped to put an end to those life choices.

Hey and get this, you could even leave school at 15 (yes not 18 or 22) without any qualifications or debt, and still realistically obtain employment. Ah the good old days, what a shame they won't be coming back.

[Snugglybear]

Oh Apprenticeships, remember them boys and girls? No I don't either, but they did used to be on offer, and in abundance. However a mixture of crack-pot politics and aspirational quasi lower middle class parental snobbery helped to put an end to those life choices.

I think you'll find employers not offering them any more was a major factor.

[PopGun]

Nothing wrong with putting off work!

Most people I know would like to retire early, why get sh1tty if someone does it at the other end of their life while the liver and the girls are fitter?

My degree was personally handed to me on graduation day by Mr M. Mouse, it's not held me back so far though I am now aplying to a big corporate for the first time so we'll see if I make it past the HR dollies.

A sad insight into the minds of these 'recruiters': My friend went to a state school that was only 'grammar' by name (still a good school mind, but state none the less).

After graduating, he didn't have to wait long for his big break at a multi national, and is making huge strives into a long, lucrative and successful career. Only when he went back to help filter out the next year's intake did he discover that all applicants from 'state' schools get automatically filtered out at the first hurdle, (regardless of where your degree was from).

I just love the snobbery towards people who've read 'unworthy' subjects from 'unworthy' Universities, when it was this very same type of snobbery that helped give birth to the pointless hyper expansion of higher education in the first place.

Edited September 27, 2010 by PopGun

[PopGun]

I think you'll find employers not offering them any more was a major factor.

er yes and why is that?

[200p]

Briefly summarised as:

- Education: Bad

- Equality: Bad

- Law: Bad

- Greed: Good

- Killing People: Good

In other words, the same old libertarian nonsense. Grow up.

Great 2nd post. Infantile.

Edited September 27, 2010 by Money Spinner

[shipbuilder]

Damn right there's no input. Just look at all the people who study/studied CCNA networking courses and compare that to the number of jobs out there which actually involve managing networks. My brother is the network manager for Medion's head office, he manages the whole network by himself- a whole head office. I think that proves how few job oppurtunities in this field are available out there.

He is a good example of an exceptional graduate, he's got a 1st from a respectable university in the IT field and was very lucky to get the job he did as the existing manager left so he started taking over the responsiblities while doing his existing call support job. And yet he's probably on about 25k I would guess, pretty comfortable but nothing to boast about and at the end of the day I think he has to work hard in his job to get the salary.

The field I personally work in is worth $100s billions yet I still haven't seen a single university even teaching the basics of it in a course, I've managed to become somewhat of an expert in the field through self study and probably learned much more than I would doing a degree in the same topic. I value my skills in this area over any qualification or peice of paper I could have my name on. If I went the career route I would have hit an income ceiling of probably 30-40k but working for myself the sky is the limit. Oh and my skill can directly take advantage of Chinese production, as opposed to being the enemy of it like needing a job in the UK would be.

So you agree that industry is to blame? Would you expect someone from a university to have the insight to be knocking on your door for your input or should it be a bit more 'supply and demand'?

[RentingForever]

The impression I get is that universities are now mostly organisations selling degrees. The customers are the students, they're the ones deciding where they go and therefore to which institution their fees get paid. So if the kids want to do media studies, then the sensible university will offer a degree in media studies. And so on.

Bums on seats, laddie, bums on seats.

Exactly right. See also, for example, the decline of chemistry degrees vs the rise of "forensic science". All the kids have seen CSI and Silent Witness and want to be Amanda Burton.

(the fact that there are nowhere near enough forensic jobs for all these graduates is another issue).

[Cicero]

Brilliant! Would probably earn a first at Princess Diana University College (Formerly South Shields Apprentice's College), or a D. Litt from Nelson Mandela University Brixton.

Or a Ph.D from the First University College of Kirklees.

Edited September 27, 2010 by Cicero

[Home_To_Roost]

Exactly right. See also, for example, the decline of chemistry degrees vs the rise of "forensic science". All the kids have seen CSI and Silent Witness and want to be Amanda Burton.

(the fact that there are nowhere near enough forensic jobs for all these graduates is another issue).

What about all the LAW graduates? There are law graduates coming out of this country's ears ... how many are really needed?

The Educonomy is a very substantial beast! It employs/occupies millions of people ... without it there would be many more unemployed. The system is a scam IMHO ..... soon everyone and their pet tortoise will have a BA/BSc Hons. How many people use their degree title after their name e.g. Joe Bloggs (BA Hons)?

[lets get it right]

Everyone I know is severely underemployed and has been since they graduated. The only thing mopping them up has been emigration and the public sector. If not for that, we would have had protests well before now.

Protests! You have to smile. What are the Students Union about these days? Once upon a time they represented students. Once upon a time if someone had suggested taking grants away and replacing them with student loands the barricades would have been built and the sit-ins (and the odd riot) started.

Once upon a time if you had added insult to injury by suggesting that, as well as getting into 20k of debt, graduates would also pay a higher rate of tax - well that really would have been a powder keg.

Now? Does the NUS still exist? If it does it must be run by a supine bunch.

[lets get it right]

What about all the LAW graduates? There are law graduates coming out of this country's ears ... how many are really needed?

With 3000 new laws on the statute books in New Labour's first 10 years, the need for lawyers is limitless.

[Harry Monk]

Protests! You have to smile. What are the Students Union about these days? Once upon a time they represented students. Once upon a time if someone had suggested taking grants away and replacing them with student loands the barricades would have been built and the sit-ins (and the odd riot) started.

Once upon a time if you had added insult to injury by suggesting that, as well as getting into 20k of debt, graduates would also pay a higher rate of tax - well that really would have been a powder keg.

Now? Does the NUS still exist? If it does it must be run by a supine bunch.

Yep, you can't imagine the following being written about today's student movement...

Tin soldiers and Nixon's comin'.

We're finally on our own.

This summer I hear the drummin'.

Four dead in Ohio.

Gotta get down to it.

Soldiers are gunning us down.

Should have been done long ago.

What if you knew her and

Found her dead on the ground?

How can you run when you know?

[Snugglybear]

er yes and why is that?

I don't know. The automation and offshoring of manufacturing? Employers not wanting to invest time, effort and money in training workers because quick profits require that costs be cut? The availability of ready educated and trained workers from other countries?

[ken_ichikawa]

Protests! You have to smile. What are the Students Union about these days? Once upon a time they represented students. Once upon a time if someone had suggested taking grants away and replacing them with student loands the barricades would have been built and the sit-ins (and the odd riot) started.

I think it was labour which killed it, in that my time in university at the start of the 00s people would think crap if we do this and we get arrested it'll affect our futures forever. While before that simple cautions and riots were not so serious in the work place.

I think many of them were vindicated as most countries in the world will not grant you a work visa or citizenship if you get anything above a caution. I had to watch my own citizenships carefully as they had T&C you commit any crime = you get stripped of that citizenship.

[PopGun]

I don't know. The automation and offshoring of manufacturing? Employers not wanting to invest time, effort and money in training workers because quick profits require that costs be cut? The availability of ready educated and trained workers from other countries?

But you do agree that genuine opportunities for the young are much less available, compared to 15, 20 or 30 years ago yes?

Much of today's higher education and it's by product 'achievements' are indeed pointless, which just highlights what little alternative opportunity is available. Because if there were alternative options to useless degrees out there, the young wouldn't be undertaking them.

Still if it makes certain people feel better about themselves ridiculing youngsters for undertaking meedja studies because they don't have the same opportunities available which they had 25 years ago, then I can only feel sorry for them.