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The Masked Tulip

Rt Properties' Creditors To Meet In Swansea

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I can't find the original thread via the search function of the story about this chap's property empire going bust, posted last month I think, after RBS allegedly downgraded his property portfolio by 30 to 35 million. It generated a lot of discussion at the time about the hows and whys of the big banks lending to people to buy commercial property.

But here is an update - looks like he is about to be issued with an IVA which is fascinating as, locally, I have heard numerous people discussing this property bust and usually finishing with the same shocked words in the way that only the Welsh can... "But he is a tycoon..."

I might pop along to the meeting myself. In fact, he lives a few hundred yards from me so I might invite him round for a cuppa and a heart to heart :unsure:

Mods if you come across the original thread it might be worth merging.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-11377469

A creditors' meeting will be held after problems at a multimillion-pound firm with properties in Swansea and Cardiff.

RT Properties, owned by Roy Thomas, managed premises occupied by Swansea's Dragon Hotel, its city centre Marks & Spencer, and Idols nightclub.

At the meeting creditors will discuss a proposal to repay sums owed to them.

Mr Thomas has told the South Wales Evening Post: "It is absolutely devastating because I feel it is an unnecessary situation."

RT Properties owned 25 properties in Swansea, including those housing Ask restaurant in Wind Street, and nine properties in Cardiff, including the HaHa bar in The Friary.

Newspapers have reported that assets belonging to RT Properties were bought out of receivership by the Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS).

RT Properties also owned premises occupied by Marks & Spencer in Swansea city centre

There are also newspaper reports that RBS wrote down their value by between £30m - £35m.

Last week it was revealed that insolvency practitioners McAlister & Co had been appointed to issue an Individual Voluntary Arrangement (IVA) for Mr Thomas, of Sketty, Swansea.

Creditors will gather at the Marriott Hotel, Swansea, to discuss the firm's proposal.

Ah, explains the IVA.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2010/09/17/creditors-to-meet-over-rt-properties-91466-27284588/

RT Properties was forced into receivership by the RBS bank after it knocked between £30m and £35m off the paper valuation of the firm’s assets and pulled the plug on its credit. The bank also imposed a £14.8m exit charge penalty on Mr Thomas personally because RT Properties was unable to fulfil its loan terms.
Edited by The Masked Tulip

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from multi millionaire tycoon to 20p in the £ in 3 months.

in a few months MT he might come knocking when he sees how little is left.

remember that thread,he came out with the classic line about howRBS were being reckless with local jobs (bout 16 in his office iirc),never mind the fact he'd been reckless with £35 mill of our cash.

That's the one.

Why didn't we go to RBS 10 years ago and get them to make us property tycoons also? :unsure:

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I can't find the original thread via the search function of the story about this chap's property empire going bust, posted last month I think, after RBS allegedly downgraded his property portfolio by 30 to 35 million. It generated a lot of discussion at the time about the hows and whys of the big banks lending to people to buy commercial property.

But here is an update - looks like he is about to be issued with an IVA which is fascinating as, locally, I have heard numerous people discussing this property bust and usually finishing with the same shocked words in the way that only the Welsh can... "But he is a tycoon..."

You cannot have an IVA imposed upon you. The V stands for Voluntary and that's exactly what it is.

tim

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You cannot have an IVA imposed upon you. The V stands for Voluntary and that's exactly what it is.

tim

Yes, you are right. Good point.

RBS put a 15 million or thereabouts personal charge on him which, excuse me for being a numpty, means he has a debt of 15 million on his head now does it not?

Hence why, according to the press reports, he is perhaps going down the IVA route as how can he find 15 million to pay off those debts? He owns Swansea Airport which is a busy but small airport but I doubt it is worth more than a few million if that.

Edited by The Masked Tulip

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You cannot have an IVA imposed upon you. The V stands for Voluntary and that's exactly what it is.

tim

tell that to the creditors.

its take it or leave it for them.

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sounds like bankrupcy would lead to a forced sale of assets - whilst they still generate an income an IVA may be preferable to a fire-sale and a creditor-scramble

Last week it was revealed that insolvency practitioners McAlister & Co had been appointed to issue an Individual Voluntary Arrangement (IVA) for Mr Thomas, of Sketty, Swansea.

so it sounds like he was heavily pushed into it

furthermore - arragements are different for 'companies' (they have a company voluntary arrangement) - so was this guy a sole-trader?

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I am guessing, Bradford and Bingley would not have been so harsh? (I lve near their head ffice and they have had a reputation for amateurishness for years) - ie The Wilsons.

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From the above link:

Sandra McAlister, of Swansea-based McAlister & Co Insolvency Practitioners, has now been appointed as nominee (insolvency practitioner) to Mr Thomas’s individual voluntary arrangement .

The firm explained yesterday that working with Mr Thomas’ representatives, McAlister & Co issued the IVA proposal to creditors earlier this month.

A meeting of the creditors will be held on Tuesday at the Marriott Hotel in Swansea Marina.

An IVA is a widely used method of dealing with personal debt. It is a legally binding agreement between an individual and his or her creditors where funds are made available for distribution between the creditors bound by the agreement.

Ah, so he appointed the above firm to act on his behalf re the IVA and they are having the meeting, about now I think, with his creditors?

I wonder how many there are that it requires the use of a hotel to hold the meeting? No doubt the papers will report on it.

I do find it fascinating, despite all my years on here, just how many people have had enormous loans, either personal or via companies they own, from the likes of the RBS to invest in properties. I almost feel like a numpty for not being involved myself but then I do not have to go down the IVA route - I mean, did I not open the mailshot from RBS offering to loan me tens of millions to invest in shopping malls and apartment complexes? Did I get the offer but merely throw it away with all the other junk mail. :blink:

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sounds like bankrupcy would lead to a forced sale of assets - whilst they still generate an income an IVA may be preferable to a fire-sale and a creditor-scramble

so it sounds like he was heavily pushed into it

furthermore - arragements are different for 'companies' (they have a company voluntary arrangement) - so was this guy a sole-trader?

Here is the RT Properties website - http://www.rtproperties.co.uk/ - can't find the use of the word 'Limited' on there. Can you?

Nah, surely even RBS would not lend 10 of millions to a sole trader?

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Here is the RT Properties website - http://www.rtproperties.co.uk/ - can't find the use of the word 'Limited' on there. Can you?

Nah, surely even RBS would not lend 10 of millions to a sole trader?

I worked for a major bulding society in the HO a few years back - oh they would, lending standards went out of the window even in conservative institutions

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I worked for a major bulding society in the HO a few years back - oh they would, lending standards went out of the window even in conservative institutions

There is no company number that I can find on that website either.

I just did a search on Companies House website for 'RT Properties' and the one listed is not in Swansea or Wales.

Sole trader? Nah, surely not?

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There is no company number that I can find on that website either.

I just did a search on Companies House website for 'RT Properties' and the one listed is not in Swansea or Wales.

Sole trader? Nah, surely not?

there were small time sole trader BTL tycoons where I worked in the building soc.... approving other peoples' BTL applicaions....

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tell that to the creditors.

its take it or leave it for them.

Only to the ones that vote NO.

75% (IIRC) by value have to vote for it or it wont pass

tim

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I do find it fascinating, despite all my years on here, just how many people have had enormous loans, either personal or via companies they own, from the likes of the RBS to invest in properties.

I just can't undestand why so many have no fear about going into debt to buy property.

If people have cash lying around, and fully own their own home, then I can understand it more, because they do not have the same risks that these big borrowers, seem so content to take on.

On "Homes Under the Hammer" this morning, there was this man and his wife who "accidently" bid on a house they didnt even mean to bid on, because one of them put up their hand at the wrong time. :rolleyes: This couple only had 7 years to go on their own mortgage, but had extended this, so they could get finance to go into BTL property, The guy said he had bad back problems, so was not sure how long he could work for, but he said, if he didnt work, at least he would be collecting rent on his portfolio of properties he was buying (or had bought). :unsure:

And, I guess if he stopped work, the taxpayer would then have to repay his new mortgage with this increased debt on it.

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The story has reached the BBC Wales news site

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-11377469

Creditors owed money following the collapse of a south Wales property company have been offered about 1p for every £4 they are owed.

A meeting to discuss the offer by RT Properties, owned by Roy Thomas, was adjourned for two weeks for more time to consider the proposal.

It managed premises occupied by Swansea's Dragon Hotel, its city centre Marks & Spencer, and Idols nightclub.

Small companies and investors account for around £6m of the £32m owed.

Among them are private investors, cleaning companies, law and security firms and Swansea council.

Solicitor Tim Jones, who represented some of the creditors, said: "The whole thing is unfortunate for Mr Thomas, but more so for the small businesses and investors who have lost in the region of £6m."

RT Properties owned around 25 properties in Swansea, including those housing Ask restaurant in Wind Street, and nine properties in Cardiff, including the Ha Ha bar and restaurant in The Friary.

RT Properties also owned premises occupied by Marks & Spencer in Swansea city centre Newspapers have reported that assets belonging to RT Properties were bought out of receivership by the Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) - the major creditor.

There are also newspaper reports that RBS wrote down their value by between £30m-£35m.

Mr Thomas, from Sketty in Swansea, was not present at the private creditors' meeting but was represented.

An offer of 0.26p for every £1 owed was discussed.

The former chairman and owner of Cardiff-based airline Air Wales, who also owned Swansea Airport, Mr Thomas had maintained that RT Properties was a successful business.

Last month he told the South Wales Evening Post: "It is absolutely devastating because I feel it is an unnecessary situation."

He told the Evening Post that it had secured 39 lettings in the 24 months leading up to March 2010.

"It was letting to small businesses on flexible terms," he told the newspaper.

About 20 of the 80 creditors attended the meeting at Swansea's Marriott Hotel.

They discussed a proposed Individual Voluntary Arrangement (IVA) - a legally binding agreement between an individual and his/her creditors.

Sandra McAlister of McAlister & Co insolvency practitioners said a further meeting of creditors would be arranged at a venue, yet to be confirmed, on 5 October.

I presume the 0.26 p in the £ is for the smaller creditors. What about the big fish like RBS?

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The story has reached the BBC Wales news site

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-11377469

I presume the 0.26 p in the £ is for the smaller creditors. What about the big fish like RBS?

How would this affect his other assets of Swansea airport and Air Wales?

I would guess that Air Wales does not really have many assets as I would assume, like many other airlines, he would be leasing/renting the aircraft used?

I wish I could have gone to the meeting as I would have been interested in who was owed what just to try and guage the wider affects on local people and businesses.

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How would this affect his other assets of Swansea airport and Air Wales?

I would guess that Air Wales does not really have many assets as I would assume, like many other airlines, he would be leasing/renting the aircraft used?

Air Wales ceased operating in April 2006. According to the Companies House Webcheck thingy, Air Wales (no. 03441729) is in Liquidation. Details here http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/d20baebef7740582f8f630ed30168b0b/compdetails

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How would this affect his other assets of Swansea airport and Air Wales?

I would guess that Air Wales does not really have many assets as I would assume, like many other airlines, he would be leasing/renting the aircraft used?

I wish I could have gone to the meeting as I would have been interested in who was owed what just to try and guage the wider affects on local people and businesses.

How did this guy get his money in the first place? He's not the same one who sold off the Travel House, is he?

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Air Wales ceased operating in April 2006. According to the Companies House Webcheck thingy, Air Wales (no. 03441729) is in Liquidation. Details here http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/d20baebef7740582f8f630ed30168b0b/compdetails

Explains a lot - they used to fly over my house so I stopped using them. Explains the power of the Tulip. :blink:

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How did this guy get his money in the first place?

The same way anyone else who has a business idea and is a good bull****er.

He asked his bank and they were stupid enough to fall for the patter

tim

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Explains a lot - they used to fly over my house so I stopped using them. Explains the power of the Tulip. :blink:

Didn't Spike Milligan point a stick at an aircraft, shout bang and it crashed ? His aircraft curse ...

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