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PunK BeaR

Lie Detector Tests For Tax Cheats

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Just read this article in the telegraph and didnt see it posted on this site.

Middle-class professionals could be subjected to lie detector tests as part of moves against tax evasion announced at the Liberal Democrat Conference.

Debt collection agencies will work with HM Revenue and Customs to investigate the records of 150,000 people earning more than £150,000 a year — the threshold for the 50 per cent income tax rate............

Linky

Apart from this method of inquisition, the article also highlights another method which is being used. Scary stuff.

Sources at HMRC suggested that “voice recognition analysis”, which alerts investigators when a caller claiming benefits sounds nervous, could be used to identify those seeking to mislead tax inspectors.

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The Para-sites have almost killed the hoast

Mike

exactly.

wait until they target the black economy, the so called tax avoiders.

instant bankruptcy of many small businesses will follow.

i suspect most of us would "tolerate" a business or person operating in the black economy as the alternative is the dole economy.

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So they are reducing the number of tax inspectors and cutting the budgets at HMRC, but expect to be able to do more investigations :huh:

Sounds like New Labour style doublethink to me! :rolleyes:

P.S. Have they finished investigating all those Doctors, Solicitors, and other middle class professionals the last government announced they would be scrutinising earlier in 2010?

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So they are reducing the number of tax inspectors and cutting the budgets at HMRC, but expect to be able to do more investigations :huh:

Sounds like New Labour style doublethink to me! :rolleyes:

P.S. Have they finished investigating all those Doctors, Solicitors, and other middle class professionals the last government announced they would be scrutinising earlier in 2010?

You can always do more with less as long as you want to.

BTW the gov in the past and probably going into the future don’t want to catch most “cheats” because it would mean closing down a lot of small businesses who employ a lot of staff.

I suspect the black economy employs directly or indirectly 20% of us. Half of that would likely be unworkable if they paid their full tax. So your probably looking at 3million jobs dependant on not paying full taxes.

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So they are reducing the number of tax inspectors and cutting the budgets at HMRC, but expect to be able to do more investigations :huh:

Sounds like New Labour style doublethink to me! :rolleyes:

P.S. Have they finished investigating all those Doctors, Solicitors, and other middle class professionals the last government announced they would be scrutinising earlier in 2010?

As said in another thread, they just send out wild accusations and see what the cat drags in.

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Middle-class professionals could be subjected to lie detector tests as part of moves against tax evasion announced at the Liberal Democrat Conference.

Debt collection agencies will work with HM Revenue and Customs to investigate the records of 150,000 people earning more than £150,000 a year — the threshold for the 50 per cent income tax rate............

Hmmm ... so middle-class professional now means top-1%-earner?

If they target those who declare top-end earnings, doesn't that mean they're missing those who hide them?

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exactly.

wait until they target the black economy, the so called tax avoiders.

instant bankruptcy of many small businesses will follow.

i suspect most of us would "tolerate" a business or person operating in the black economy as the alternative is the dole economy.

You can't run a small business and pay all the tax you should. If I buy a car for £3000, fit 4 tyres for £200,do some paintwork for another £200,spend another £200 on valeting and a service and MOT and sell it for £4000 how much do I make? Well you might think £400,but no. I will become eligible for £175 VAT on the deal and make £225 and that isn't enough.

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You can always do more with less as long as you want to.

So if I give you smaller and smaller amounts of food, you can feed more people with it?

Of course, you can try to find efficiency savings, but let's be honest, the problem is not the HMRC being full of lazy staff, it's the hierarchy, systems and internal processes that have been put in place after years of work from top management consultancies that is likely the root cause of any problems. Oh yes, that and the constant change.

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If they target those who declare top-end earnings, doesn't that mean they're missing those who hide them?

There is no room for logic in this discussion!

It's the way the British system works - the people who try to comply with the system and make a few mistakes / take the odd liberty get nailed to the floor. The people who just work outside the system and can afford to keep the authorities chasing their tails for a while, get away it (see Vodafone for details).

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As said in another thread, they just send out wild accusations and see what the cat drags in.

And did it occur to you that the >£150K earners they are sending the "wild accusations" to are exactly the kind of people who employ accountants and tax advisers to respond to the aforementioned accusations on their behalf?

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Guest UK Debt Slave

Just read this article in the telegraph and didnt see it posted on this site.

Linky

Apart from this method of inquisition, the article also highlights another method which is being used. Scary stuff.

Getting desperate isn't it?

And on top of this, Inland revenue wants all salaries paid directly to them by PAYE employers so they decide what you will pay in tax and bung you an allowance to live on. Welcome to fascism

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So long as the focus of taxation is on income it will be relatively easy for people to evade. It is fairer, easier and much much more efficient to tax wealth and assets. Do you know of anyone who evades Council Tax? No, because you can't hide a house (no, not even that guy that build a faux castle in a haystack). Of course this will never happen because the majority of wealth - real wealth - is held by a tiny fraction of the population. Some of them have held this wealth for centuries.

I live in a house in London built by my landlord's aristocratic ancestors in the 1840s. He owns hundred of properties in the area worth hundreds of millions of pounds. Now that's real wealth. The tax system allow him to protect this wealth from generation to generation at the same time as it threatens to hook people of modest means up to lie detectors to see if they can squeeze any more tax out of them this year. No one's going to use a lie detector on my landlord. After all, he's a Conservative MP, as was his father. His great-great-grandfather was a Conservative prime minister. You get the picture.

The seriously rich don't mind tax because they pay such a small amount relative to their wealth. The poor don't mind tax because they pay so little of it and receive a disproportionate amount of the benefits. The middles classes hate tax because it erodes their income, stymies their accumulation of real wealth and provides them with relatively little in return. Do you reckon we could persuade a Conservative government to change this state of affairs? Do you reckon a Labour government would either?

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Reminded me of the CSA they were only interested in getting the money from the easy targets like the PAYE anything more complicated got away with it.

The honest and upfront always end up paying the most. :ph34r:

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So long as the focus of taxation is on income it will be relatively easy for people to evade. It is fairer, easier and much much more efficient to tax wealth and assets. Do you know of anyone who evades Council Tax? No, because you can't hide a house (no, not even that guy that build a faux castle in a haystack). Of course this will never happen because the majority of wealth - real wealth - is held by a tiny fraction of the population. Some of them have held this wealth for centuries.

I live in a house in London built by my landlord's aristocratic ancestors in the 1840s. He owns hundred of properties in the area worth hundreds of millions of pounds. Now that's real wealth. The tax system allow him to protect this wealth from generation to generation at the same time as it threatens to hook people of modest means up to lie detectors to see if they can squeeze any more tax out of them this year. No one's going to use a lie detector on my landlord. After all, he's a Conservative MP, as was his father. His great-great-grandfather was a Conservative prime minister. You get the picture.

The seriously rich don't mind tax because they pay such a small amount relative to their wealth. The poor don't mind tax because they pay so little of it and receive a disproportionate amount of the benefits. The middles classes hate tax because it erodes their income, stymies their accumulation of real wealth and provides them with relatively little in return. Do you reckon we could persuade a Conservative government to change this state of affairs? Do you reckon a Labour government would either?

I don't think it will be long before the LibLabCON start waterboarding us until they have every penny we have.

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On what legal basis will the HMRC require citizens to submit to lie detector tests? Even the police can't force you to take one after arresting you. Do they propose to make it a criminal offence not to co-operate?

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On what legal basis will the HMRC require citizens to submit to lie detector tests? Even the police can't force you to take one after arresting you. Do they propose to make it a criminal offence not to co-operate?

'Lie detectors' are ******** anyway... just a way to scare people into telling you what you want to hear. I'm not aware of a single one that has any basis in proven science and even if they worked, criminals tend to be psychopaths and can therefore lie without the slightest twinge of conscience or fear.

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I think I shall phone them up today and sound really nervous. With luck I can waste weeks of their time. Hang on though. Didn't they just create a law making it illegal to sound nervous if you have nothing to be nervous about?

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  • 246 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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