Alan B'Stard MP Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Liquidity vs yield. If you satisfy all demand but retain pre-existing growth expectations (maintain yield expectations) - Houston, you have a problem. Maybe we went off the rails when we lost the ability to settle in kind? How many people still know how to pot a chicken? I wonder what happens if AXA pay out in rice. Settle in kind. Do you mean "payment". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Liquidity vs yield. If you satisfy all demand but retain pre-existing growth expectations (maintain yield expectations) - Houston, you have a problem. Maybe we went off the rails when we lost the ability to settle in kind? That's the rub right there. legal tender law is so ******ed up - it makes all trades far more resolvable than they should be. Wheres the feedback in that? How many people still know how to pot a chicken? Ah well some of us are lucky, my cooking "teach" was an ex scotsguard quartermaster. We had grizzly bear once. Not difficult skills to acquire and a motivated student is guaranteed. I wonder what happens if AXA pay out in rice. The local chinese shuts? (Or, ofc, thrives..) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParticleMan Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 (edited) Do you mean "payment". I think we've just resolved the Pensions conundrum. Forcably redraw the blasted things as contracts to supply a given basket of consumer staples over some term. With physical delivery being an option. Extra points if you pull MiFiD-esque stunts and make them transferrable, and centrally cleared. Edited September 23, 2010 by ParticleMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Wheres the feedback in that? Scarcity. As it happens - how many transactions are forced by legal tender - as a %? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Scarcity. As it happens - how many transactions are forced by legal tender - as a %? All of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopGun Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Exactly! And if they are free from coercion to do so, then alternatives will proliferate. But in your scenario, you said you were the only producer of treatment?! You mean extortion won't pay? Good lord. Depends on your poker face. Mine's rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 All of them. In a court - with the legal tender on deposit? Not many. You are just being imaginative. In fact most transactions are completed and settled on trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 In a court - with the legal tender on deposit? Not many. You are just being imaginative. In fact most transactions are completed and settled on trust. Oh no, people are being imaginitive. They know where the procedure utlimately goes, so they get it out of the way early. Same mechanism as tax paying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 But in your scenario, you said you were the only producer of treatment?! With no ability to coerce anyone, how long is that going to last? Depends on your poker face. Mine's rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 I think we've just resolved the Pensions conundrum. Forcably redraw the blasted things as contracts to supply a given basket of consumer staples over some term. With physical delivery being an option. Extra points if you pull MiFiD-esque stunts and make them transferrable, and centrally cleared. A contract to supply with physical delivery being an option !!! You financial types make me laugh with your shenanigans. Economics is simple. I give you something you want. You give me something I want. Anything else is a ruse:; you can hide it by time and demographic - but it will still be a ruse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 (edited) Oh no, people are being imaginitive. They know where the procedure utlimately goes, so they get it out of the way early. Same mechanism as tax paying. Imagination of a event isn't a factual event - and I know you like your facts. Edited September 23, 2010 by Alan B'Stard MP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParticleMan Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 (edited) Economics is simple. I give you something you want. You give me something I want. For the record I never promissed anyone happily ever after (but I can see that the weight of delivering it is now threatening even my rice). I can however see that Cathedrals don't get built through barter. Edited September 23, 2010 by ParticleMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Imagination of a event isn't a factual event - and I know you like your facts. Imagination of being thrown in prison causes the real event of tax payment. Imagination of the court telling you to suck it up and take the legal tender stops you going to court to demand what you actually wanted. Facts are lovely, idd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easy2012 Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Who reduces their capital stock by charity? Not the "system". You expect that to be some other richmans job. You are, after all, poor with your measly 2 bil and double-barreled london postcode. Herd poison. No-one does what is right if no one is watching and the gain versus the loss of conscience can be doublethinked or conveniently forgotten - or "I just manage a portfolio". I acknowlege that if there if Joe owns a super factory that produces everything at near zero cost then all the financial 'capital' will go to him and there is nothing else left to exchange. Therefore capital / wealth based taxation (or partial taxation) is the answer so that we can continue to produce and exchange with each others. As for the statement " there is only debtor, creditor", there is one more thing in the equation - real value in the economy (and real value of rice is to keep my tummy full for x days, not £20/kg). So, one's saving is a fractional claims against these real value. Given that most debts are secured debt, they are backed by assets behind it. If the 'creditors' don't spend, then the debt burden will be more difficult to be extinguished and so creditors take over the assets in the end (in theory anyway, or revolution). That is why debt is dangerous as it relies on the kindness of the creditors to spend in order to extinguish them and yet our society think borrowing money is like going to disney land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Given that most debts are secured debt, they are backed by assets behind it.. Could everyone liquidate at the same time, and everyone get paid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easy2012 Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Could everyone liquidate at the same time, and everyone get paid? Nope - they can't all be get paid in 'money' (well... central bank money that is it) But then there is no reason why creditors need to be obsessed with the thing called 'money' - just go on and seize the real production facilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 just go on and seize the real production facilities. How? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easy2012 Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 How? Debt for equity swap ? Administration? Repossess & manage ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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