Exam System Is "diseased And Corrupt"

[winkie]

Exam boards know that private shools coursework will all come back as A grades even if pupils are scoring B's in exams.

They also know that many state pupils scoring A's in exams will end up with coursework graded C because in my experience state schools just cannot cope with 'coursework'

As an example my son wasted weeks trying to get his biology experiment to work

turns out the enzyme he was given was 2 years out of date !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This also impacted his other subjects because instead of revising over the 2 week holiday before his exams he was redoing his biology experiment at home using new enzyme and equipment we bought over the internet which took me a month to track down and cost 100 quid.

In the end he just managed to scrape an A overall which meant he just met his offer grades after the college managed to screw up his physics practical as explained in the previous post.

Sometimes kids need some breathing space to find out who they are and where they want to go.

[Injin]

The purpose of education is NOT to enable children for anything, it's do weed out more or less everyone who doesn't share the viewpoint of those who created the education system.

The exam system is not like the driving test, where if you can demonstrate competence you can drive - it is designed to stop people from doing things that are actually very easy because the crafters of the system like a society that works that way.

[Game_Over]

What is this obsession with grades, qualifications, universities.......at the end of the day a person will do what they want to do and no amount of ticks will guarantee a healthy wealthy life....if someone wants something bad enough they will get it whatever.

Sorry but this is b*llocks.

The state education system is destroying peoples chances of doing what they want to do.

So far my family have managed to beat the system - but I am very bitter about how close the system has come to beating us.

And I am very bitter about how many of my kids friends have been chewed up by the system without their parents even realising what is happening.

[Game_Over]

Sometimes kids need some breathing space to find out who they are and where they want to go.

What if they have an IQ of 120 plus and want to get a highly paid job that needs a degree from a top university ?

When some retard whose parents could afford a private education gets the university place and they miss out because of a screw up by the state college, what are their parents supposed to say to them?

Never mind - a good job, money and status don't guarantee happiness

Well maybe they don't but they sure as Hell help

[Cicero]

Sorry but this is b*llocks.

The state education system is destroying peoples chances of doing what they want to do.

So far my family have managed to beat the system - but I am very bitter about how close the system has come to beating us.

And I am very bitter about how many of my kids friends have been chewed up by the system without their parents even realising what is happening.

Sad but true.

[winkie]

What if they have an IQ of 120 plus and want to get a highly paid job that needs a degree from a top university ?

When some retard whose parents could afford a private education gets the university place and they miss out because of a screw up by the state college, what are their parents supposed to say to them?

Never mind - a good job, money and status don't guarantee happiness

Well maybe they don't but they sure as Hell help

What is wrong with being self employed....most of the people inc my parents have their own businesses...no qualifications required.

[concerned_money]

it is designed to stop people from doing things that are actually very easy because the crafters of the system like a society that works that way.

"stuff thats's easy" - possible to elaborate?

[Game_Over]

What is wrong with being self employed....most of the people inc my parents have their own businesses...no qualifications required.

It's hard to be self employed if you want to design microprocessors or work in the satellite construction industry or design robots.

[swissy_fit]

The IB is not a panacea as many think, indeed whilst it is good in a broad-brush way, it lacks depth - for example in maths, classical languages and computing students cannot study to as in-depth a level as they can through A Levels. This is a significant difficulty since there is no one system that provides academic rigour across the board.

That's a detail, the point is in the principle of removing the possibility of dumbing down the system, if the standards are set by a Swiss organisation free from UK government interference and/or influence then schools would have to meet them, and businesses would have a means of judging UK students against other nationalities(suspect this would be very embarrassing at first). If the IB isn't detailed enough to prepare students for a good UK university(from what I've seen I don't believe this to be true), then create a more detailed curriculum/exam and give it a different name. The VIs must be removed from the equation.

I seem to remember the process of dumbing-down started when I was at school in the late 70s, my school was criticised for using the AEB instead of Oxford examining board for some 'O' levels. I sat a mixture of AEB and Oxford 'O' levels, I remember the AEB exams being easier. This process has continued for the last 30 years under all governments, it's time to stop.

[bogbrush]

The purpose of education is NOT to enable children for anything, it's do weed out more or less everyone who doesn't share the viewpoint of those who created the education system.

The exam system is not like the driving test, where if you can demonstrate competence you can drive - it is designed to stop people from doing things that are actually very easy because the crafters of the system like a society that works that way.

I didn't feel like that was happening, and really even looking back I don't see it was that way. Sure, on one level I was taught stuff off a syllabus and marked pass or fail, but I also recall so many of my teachers who tried to teach me the value of thinking around a subject, our English teacher started a debating society (we were only a Liverpool Comp recently converted from Secondary Modern) and we tried scary stuff like "This House supports the right of women to choose abortion"; I got bollocked by my Maths teacher not for not doing my homework (again) but for not having the balls to admit it (rather than excuse no. 87, my Auntie ate it or something), etc. As I mentioned earlier we were encouraged to take tougher boards if we could handle it as that was more stretching.

I dunno, it didn't feel like all they wanted to do was turn out exam passes, there was some kind of interest in whether we had minds. Is that still there? I really don't know, but some peoples experiences sound so f*cking dire I can't relate to it.

I do think league tables is the worst idea ever; I know there are cr@p teachers, as there are cr@p everythings, but in any enterprise be very careful about the targets you set because you might just get them.

[Game_Over]

That's a detail, the point is in the principle of removing the possibility of dumbing down the system, if the standards are set by a Swiss organisation free from UK government interference and/or influence then schools would have to meet them, and businesses would have a means of judging UK students against other nationalities(suspect this would be very embarrassing at first). If the IB isn't detailed enough to prepare students for a good UK university(from what I've seen I don't believe this to be true), then create a more detailed curriculum/exam and give it a different name. The VIs must be removed from the equation.

I seem to remember the process of dumbing-down started when I was at school in the late 70s, my school was criticised for using the AEB instead of Oxford examining board for some 'O' levels. I sat a mixture of AEB and Oxford 'O' levels, I remember the AEB exams being easier. This process has continued for the last 30 years under all governments, it's time to stop.

How about instead of 'dumbing down' exams actually improving the quality of state education?

[Injin]

"stuff thats's easy" - possible to elaborate?

Pretty much anything that people do for a living.

[winkie]

It's hard to be self employed if you want to design microprocessors or work in the satellite construction industry or design robots.

Do your sons know what company they want to work for?...do a bit of job experience, get to know the name of who makes the decisions, find out more about the company...get your face and name known....persistence pays.....easily said I know but where there is a will there is a way....may the best man win.

Edited September 17, 2010 by winkie

[Game_Over]

I didn't feel like that was happening, and really even looking back I don't see it was that way. Sure, on one level I was taught stuff off a syllabus and marked pass or fail, but I also recall so many of my teachers who tried to teach me the value of thinking around a subject, our English teacher started a debating society (we were only a Liverpool Comp recently converted from Secondary Modern) and we tried scary stuff like "This House supports the right of women to choose abortion"; I got bollocked by my Maths teacher not for not doing my homework (again) but for not having the balls to admit it (rather than excuse no. 87, my Auntie ate it or something), etc. As I mentioned earlier we were encouraged to take tougher boards if we could handle it as that was more stretching.

I dunno, it didn't feel like all they wanted to do was turn out exam passes, there was some kind of interest in whether we had minds. Is that still there? I really don't know, but some peoples experiences sound so f*cking dire I can't relate to it.

I do think league tables is the worst idea ever; I know there are cr@p teachers, as there are cr@p everythings, but in any enterprise be very careful about the targets you set because you might just get them.

The purpose of the education system, after 13 years of Socialism is to entrench privilege

That's all anyone needs to know.

:angry:

[Game_Over]

Do your sons know what company they want to work for?...do a bit of job experience, get to know the name of who makes the decisions, find out more about the company...get your face and name known....persistence pays.....easily said I know but where there is a will there is a way....may the best man win.

In 21st Century Britain the best man doesn't win - the man whose parents have the most money and best connections wins

EVERY TIME

Gone are the days when a bright, hard working, white working class kid could work their way to the top.

[bogbrush]

Pretty much anything that people do for a living.

I knew you'd say that!

[bogbrush]

In 21st Century Britain the best man doesn't win - the man whose parents have the most money and best connections wins

EVERY TIME

Gone are the days when a bright, hard working, white working class kid could work their way to the top.

No, I can't accept that. It may be hard but giving up accountability is the ultimate defeat; with that you're finished.

[concerned_money]

Pretty much anything that people do for a living.

how does this benefit the crafters of the system ?

[winkie]

In 21st Century Britain the best man doesn't win - the man whose parents have the most money and best connections wins

EVERY TIME

Gone are the days when a bright, hard working, white working class kid could work their way to the top.

That is not the right attitude to have......makes it look like you have failed before you have even started.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Flip-How-Get-Best-Everything/dp/0273727516/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1284746849&sr=1-1

[swissy_fit]

How about instead of 'dumbing down' exams actually improving the quality of state education?

Er, yes, that was my point :-

Stop the dumbing-down which is the natural result of the current system.

Have the standards set free from influence in Switzerland(or anywhere where they can't be "got at"), starting with a 1960s 'O' level and 'A' levels as the benchmark, expose the truth of what has happened in the last 30 years, then raise the quality to meet the new standards.

[nixy]

how does this benefit the crafters of the system ?

Well the crafters are the controllers. And the controllers seldom 'work' for free.

and we certainly all need to be controlled hey?

injin?

[bogbrush]

Er, yes, that was my point :-

Stop the dumbing-down which is the natural result of the current system.

Have the standards set free from influence in Switzerland(or anywhere where they can't be "got at"), starting with a 1960s 'O' level and 'A' levels as the benchmark, expose the truth of what has happened in the last 30 years, then raise the quality to meet the new standards.

You just "got at" them. See how easy it is?

Education of the willing by the called seems the only effective way.

[mentholist]

That is not the right attitude to have......makes it look like you have failed before you have even started.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Flip-How-Get-Best-Everything/dp/0273727516/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1284746849&sr=1-1

Can I just make it clear the contempt I hold this kind of thing in?

It's one more of the facile positive thinking delusions that are part of the problem and not the solution as advertised. I have to say in order to be fair that I'm not familiar with this particular example but I've been subjected to hours of this ordure through various credulous managers.

There has been a wholesale departure from analysis and realism for the realms of fantasy and delusion. The new charlatans sell their snakeoil to the gullible who lap it up. Their insecurities massaged they walk away assuming that as long as they think the right thoughts it'll all go their way.... These ******wits then assume that anyone that doesn't join in with their mass delusion is actually the reason for any failure they experience.

I hate them so very very much.

[david m]

In 21st Century Britain the best man doesn't win - the man whose parents have the most money and best connections wins

EVERY TIME

Gone are the days when a bright, hard working, white working class kid could work their way to the top.

That's a gross generalization. I see bright, hard working, white working class kids accessing top graduate jobs. Not as many as I would like but a good proportion. I agree that in the last 10 years social mobility has seemed to drop vs the 80s/90s. But its hardly impossible and wheher social mobility is worse than in the 50s-70s I'm not so sure.

In the organizations I've worked they took a small numbers of grads (actually more postgrads now) from the "top" universities in US/Europe/UK each year. The UK candidates have firsts, straight A's at A level, spotless academic records. The majority do stem from private schools but some from state schools. The proportions, however, don't seem any different from when I entered the workplace in a similar organization 13 years ago.

A levels have clearly been dumbed down even since when I did them in late 80s/early90s, not in terms of breadth but in terms of depth. I think that really a shame for the brightest/best since they often have no way of differentiatiing themselves. Nonetheless I don't feel that has disadvantaged Uk graduates over other countries. A grad 1st from Oxbridge in Maths can easily compete with a comparable from MIT/Harvard/Princeton or Heidelberg/Bocconi. I get a distinct feeling that the tendency toward increasing breadth at the expense of depth is a global phenomena in education. US, German and Italian colleagues complain about the same thing. Perhaps we're all just biased toward thinking the past was better.

[winkie]

Can I just make it clear the contempt I hold this kind of thing in?

It's one more of the facile positive thinking delusions that are part of the problem and not the solution as advertised. I have to say in order to be fair that I'm not familiar with this particular example but I've been subjected to hours of this ordure through various credulous managers.

There has been a wholesale departure from analysis and realism for the realms of fantasy and delusion. The new charlatans sell their snakeoil to the gullible who lap it up. Their insecurities massaged they walk away assuming that as long as they think the right thoughts it'll all go their way.... These ******wits then assume that anyone that doesn't join in with their mass delusion is actually the reason for any failure they experience.

I hate them so very very much.

I hear your emotion loudly......there is of course no one answer, there is no one solution, no square peg will ever fit into a round hole without immense pain heartache and regret....the only path to where you want to travel to ( once you have established where you want to go, the hardest part) has to be the positive path...negativity takes you nowhere.