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Exam System Is "diseased And Corrupt"

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<br />This guy will be rounded on and torn to pieces by the VIs; Ministers, Teachers and Exam boards.<br /><br /><a href='http://www.bbc.co.uk...cation-11342847</a><br />

Bilderberg Balls spent years as Labour skool minister - screwing up the system!

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This guy will be rounded on and torn to pieces by the VIs; Ministers, Teachers and Exam boards.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11342847

The article already has him with his head torn off!

The plain fact is that WE ALL KNOW the exams of today are easier than those from the past - certainly after the 70's. I accept there would have to be some modernisation of content in many cases, but large numbers of pupils are being awarded GCSE's at a level of education which is two years below that which existed post war to the 70's. The grades being awarded are rediculous. There has been a new A* added simply because people can get marks over 90%. That was just about impossible in the past. People of 13-14 are capable of passing GCSE's with grade C or above.

The rot began in the 70's with CSE'S being invented for people who could not pass an O'Level. Then there was multiple choice appearing which allows the some to demonstrate little understanding but still gain a high mark. Then course work came creeping in. A teacher I spoke to recently, told me that if course work was not of the grade the pupil wanted they just have them improve it and resubmit it.

It is laughable and a self deception to say standards have improved when in fact the truth is standards have actually reversed. Looking at my own and siblings old exam papers, the standard of O'Levels was deficitely higher than GCSE's. Did you all see the test done by a Newspaper (times or telegraph?) a few years ago when a class of todays pupils were given a maths O'level exam from the late 50's? The result was that hardly any of them could do it. Even allowing for some changes in presentation etc it was a wake up call we have yet to wake up to.

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The plain fact is that WE ALL KNOW the exams of today are easier than those from the past

The problem is more that exam boards are INCENTIVISED to make them easier, or they will lose business to competitors :(

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The article already has him with his head torn off!

The plain fact is that WE ALL KNOW the exams of today are easier than those from the past - certainly after the 70's. I accept there would have to be some modernisation of content in many cases, but large numbers of pupils are being awarded GCSE's at a level of education which is two years below that which existed post war to the 70's. The grades being awarded are rediculous. There has been a new A* added simply because people can get marks over 90%. That was just about impossible in the past. People of 13-14 are capable of passing GCSE's with grade C or above.

The rot began in the 70's with CSE'S being invented for people who could not pass an O'Level. Then there was multiple choice appearing which allows the some to demonstrate little understanding but still gain a high mark. Then course work came creeping in. A teacher I spoke to recently, told me that if course work was not of the grade the pupil wanted they just have them improve it and resubmit it.

It is laughable and a self deception to say standards have improved when in fact the truth is standards have actually reversed. Looking at my own and siblings old exam papers, the standard of O'Levels was deficitely higher than GCSE's. Did you all see the test done by a Newspaper (times or telegraph?) a few years ago when a class of todays pupils were given a maths O'level exam from the late 50's? The result was that hardly any of them could do it. Even allowing for some changes in presentation etc it was a wake up call we have yet to wake up to.

IMO the only way is to let the exams and details of each subjects curriculum be set by an independent international agency.

It would be very embarrassing at first to have UK education exposed as being poor, but in the long term improvements would come.

For age 18 this already exists, the International Baccalaureate. Start by imposing this on all sixth form schools, then move on to replacing the GCSEs with an international equivalent. Inside 10 years, job done.

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I do sometimes wonder if the government and media failure to address these issues is a strange subconsious response on their part to undermine the idea of meritocracy.

I am an ex-secondary school teacher that now works in HE, and what bothers me these days is the sheer gap of knowledge between what a young person attains at 16, even with A*s in ten GCSEs, and the amount of knowledge and understanding a young person now needs to be a fully operational adult with options and choices in our modern environment. Young people come to university thinking they are high achievers, but do not realise the size of knowledge deficit they still have before they can make fully-informed decisions for themselves -- and this is young people from largely independent and grammar backgrounds. State school pupils have a mountain to climb in this respect.

I know people say we should return to traditional methods, and I understand why they say that, but, in all honesty, Britain's major problem with education is that is too bogged down with historical and political baggage from two very contrived sides of a debate that doesn't nail the real problem anyway. The debate isn't about exams getting easier or harder, but rather "what are we measuring here and why?" Likewise, the real issue isn't over what methods we use to teach, but "what are we teaching, and why are we teaching it? Who is the end user here? Why do they need to know this? What good will it do them in their adult life?"

But no-one will ask these questions because, if they did, it would reveal just how much of the education syllabus is actually politicised content, and how much of the state education set-up is for political reasons, and, believe me, it is. I would even go one further and say that a lot of the content is almost designed to bore the pants off young people and have no relevance to their lives as they are lived at that point in time, and a lot of the set-up makes failure far easier than success.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that if you go to an average state comprehensive in Britain today, you have little chance of achieveing your full potential in your adult life, unless you engage in a process of autodidactism and have a backbone of steel to keep you ploughing forward.

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I do sometimes wonder if the government and media failure to address these issues is a strange subconsious response on their part to undermine the idea of meritocracy.

I am an ex-secondary school teacher that now works in HE, and what bothers me these days is the sheer gap of knowledge between what a young person attains at 16, even with A*s in ten GCSEs, and the amount of knowledge and understanding a young person now needs to be a fully operational adult with options and choices in our modern environment. Young people come to university thinking they are high achievers, but do not realise the size of knowledge deficit they still have before they can make fully-informed decisions for themselves -- and this is young people from largely independent and grammar backgrounds. State school pupils have a mountain to climb in this respect.

I know people say we should return to traditional methods, and I understand why they say that, but, in all honesty, Britain's major problem with education is that is too bogged down with historical and political baggage from two very contrived sides of a debate that doesn't nail the real problem anyway. The debate isn't about exams getting easier or harder, but rather "what are we measuring here and why?" Likewise, the real issue isn't over what methods we use to teach, but "what are we teaching, and why are we teaching it? Who is the end user here? Why do they need to know this? What good will it do them in their adult life?"

But no-one will ask these questions because, if they did, it would reveal just how much of the education syllabus is actually politicised content, and how much of the state education set-up is for political reasons, and, believe me, it is. I would even go one further and say that a lot of the content is almost designed to bore the pants off young people and have no relevance to their lives as they are lived at that point in time, and a lot of the set-up makes failure far easier than success.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that if you go to an average state comprehensive in Britain today, you have little chance of achieveing your full potential in your adult life, unless you engage in a process of autodidactism and have a backbone of steel to keep you ploughing forward.

The system is designed to fail huge numbers of pupils

I have seen with my own eyes lives destroyed by the state education system.

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I do sometimes wonder if the government and media failure to address these issues is a strange subconsious response on their part to undermine the idea of meritocracy.

I am an ex-secondary school teacher that now works in HE, and what bothers me these days is the sheer gap of knowledge between what a young person attains at 16, even with A*s in ten GCSEs, and the amount of knowledge and understanding a young person now needs to be a fully operational adult with options and choices in our modern environment. Young people come to university thinking they are high achievers, but do not realise the size of knowledge deficit they still have before they can make fully-informed decisions for themselves -- and this is young people from largely independent and grammar backgrounds. State school pupils have a mountain to climb in this respect.

I know people say we should return to traditional methods, and I understand why they say that, but, in all honesty, Britain's major problem with education is that is too bogged down with historical and political baggage from two very contrived sides of a debate that doesn't nail the real problem anyway. The debate isn't about exams getting easier or harder, but rather "what are we measuring here and why?" Likewise, the real issue isn't over what methods we use to teach, but "what are we teaching, and why are we teaching it? Who is the end user here? Why do they need to know this? What good will it do them in their adult life?"

But no-one will ask these questions because, if they did, it would reveal just how much of the education syllabus is actually politicised content, and how much of the state education set-up is for political reasons, and, believe me, it is. I would even go one further and say that a lot of the content is almost designed to bore the pants off young people and have no relevance to their lives as they are lived at that point in time, and a lot of the set-up makes failure far easier than success.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that if you go to an average state comprehensive in Britain today, you have little chance of achieveing your full potential in your adult life, unless you engage in a process of autodidactism and have a backbone of steel to keep you ploughing forward.

I've had a word and you can start as Sec of State for Education on Monday if you're free.

It's tragic that the system has fallen so far. Just two observations that underline my view;

1. When I did "A" levels, because I was doing well at my Maths, it was decided I would be entered for the JMB certificate as that was considered more challenging and a more worthwhile pursuit. This is the polar opposite of the picture you paint.

2. A friend of mine involved in education tells me that schools have now become superb at training people to pass exams.

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This guy will be rounded on and torn to pieces by the VIs; Ministers, Teachers and Exam boards.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11342847

Why would teachers round on him? What he said is a statement of fact and it irks many teachers. For example, exam boards 'endorse' books and online resources for their public exam courses, however many of these resources are of an inadequate quality. Many teachers are irritated that the boards dictate the materials they should use, yet produce substandard ones. The whole resit-culture is designed to put money into the pockets of the boards too - I don't think many teachers would refute that. The man is simply stating facts.

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IMO the only way is to let the exams and details of each subjects curriculum be set by an independent international agency.

It would be very embarrassing at first to have UK education exposed as being poor, but in the long term improvements would come.

For age 18 this already exists, the International Baccalaureate. Start by imposing this on all sixth form schools, then move on to replacing the GCSEs with an international equivalent. Inside 10 years, job done.

The IB is not a panacea as many think, indeed whilst it is good in a broad-brush way, it lacks depth - for example in maths, classical languages and computing students cannot study to as in-depth a level as they can through A Levels. This is a significant difficulty since there is no one system that provides academic rigour across the board.

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Oh dear- mr market is not perfect after all it seems. :lol:

No, Mr Market gives you exactly what you pay for, as always. The trouble is that if f*ckwits ask for higher pass rates then that's what Mr Market gives them.

You're blaming the highly effective tool for the idiotic policy.

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No, Mr Market gives you exactly what you pay for, as always. The trouble is that if f*ckwits ask for higher pass rates then that's what Mr Market gives them.

You're blaming the highly effective tool for the idiotic policy.

Comma after rates you stupid boy. Take fifty lines.

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There's nothing wrong with the exams system, if you're not very bright you will not pass it's as simple as that. Those that are achieving higher grades are the ones that deserve them, I don't know why the adults in this country are obsessed with belittling the achievements of teenagers currently working their way through the system.

There's a general belief that if you can write your name you'll achieve an A*, which is total nonsense. I had a look at a GCSE maths paper the other day (Higher, AQA) and had my ass kicked by some of the questions. I was ok at school, got a B and was in the top set for maths, but without doing a fair bit of study I doubt I'd be able to get this grade or better now.

If you're academically gifted (unlike me) I'm sure it's possible to wing a lot of this stuff, but if you're not and you're unprepared you'll be caught out no problem. If you don't believe me then put yourself in for a couple of A level exams in subjects you're unfamiliar with and see how you fare.

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It's bent to the core.

I have a friedn whose son just got an 'A' grade in Chemistry. That was impressive in mine and his Dad's day. (Of course it was an 'O' level then).

His Dad openly admits that his son doesn't know half of what we did (I got a 'B') and that some of the questions in the exam are bordering on comical.

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I took "O" levels in 1967. I was one of the first puplis to take them at our school (secondary modern) as I failed the 11 plus (shock horror to my parents) but there you go. I finished with three grade 1's in Maths Physics and History and two 3's in Eng Lang/Lit. I remember they were so bloody hard and the papers were delivered by what seemed a vast security operation that would have rivalled MI6. No course work and all that sh!te-you either worked your stones off, swatted like mad (no footie for the last few months) or you sank and five years up the Swannie. Thing was that they meant something to an employer if only to show you could buckle down and you had a modicum of brains.

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I do sometimes wonder if the government and media failure to address these issues is a strange subconsious response on their part to undermine the idea of meritocracy.

I am an ex-secondary school teacher that now works in HE, and what bothers me these days is the sheer gap of knowledge between what a young person attains at 16, even with A*s in ten GCSEs, and the amount of knowledge and understanding a young person now needs to be a fully operational adult with options and choices in our modern environment. Young people come to university thinking they are high achievers, but do not realise the size of knowledge deficit they still have before they can make fully-informed decisions for themselves -- and this is young people from largely independent and grammar backgrounds. State school pupils have a mountain to climb in this respect.

I know people say we should return to traditional methods, and I understand why they say that, but, in all honesty, Britain's major problem with education is that is too bogged down with historical and political baggage from two very contrived sides of a debate that doesn't nail the real problem anyway. The debate isn't about exams getting easier or harder, but rather "what are we measuring here and why?" Likewise, the real issue isn't over what methods we use to teach, but "what are we teaching, and why are we teaching it? Who is the end user here? Why do they need to know this? What good will it do them in their adult life?"

But no-one will ask these questions because, if they did, it would reveal just how much of the education syllabus is actually politicised content, and how much of the state education set-up is for political reasons, and, believe me, it is. I would even go one further and say that a lot of the content is almost designed to bore the pants off young people and have no relevance to their lives as they are lived at that point in time, and a lot of the set-up makes failure far easier than success.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that if you go to an average state comprehensive in Britain today, you have little chance of achieveing your full potential in your adult life, unless you engage in a process of autodidactism and have a backbone of steel to keep you ploughing forward.

Very good and balanced post IMO

I have 3 teenage kids who all went through the state education system - so far 2 just managed to get into Russell Group universities.

I could write pages and pages about this subject with stories that most of you just would not believe but I have been broken by the system just trying to ensure that my kids were not.

The bottom line is - the exams have probably been made easier to compensate for huge problems in the state education system but this has just resulted in the gap between state and private sector widening.

The biggest thing that could be done to close the gap would be to abolish coursework because most state schools just cannot cope with coursework wheras private schools spoon feed pupils a guaranteed A grade

This means that a pupil at B grade in the state sctor will be dragged down to a C and a B grade pupil in the private sector will have their grade raised to an A - and the exam boards know this - but do NOTHING about it.

As dissident junk says at most state A level colleges you have to be really exceptional to get 3 A's wheras at a private school you only have to be avergae to achieve these grades.

The whole system stinks IMO and over the last 13 years has just entrenched privelege and widened the gap between those who can afford a private education and those who cannot.

:angry:

Edited by Game_Over

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The UK education system is full of CHEATING and dumbing down! I've seen it with my own eyes. Students openly cheat at college and university. The staff encourage it! I can't go into details for legal reasons, but I'll say this: College tutors HELP their entire class during assignments, to the point of actually doing the work for the students! Conferring during assignments is normal ... the ultimate piss take! College courses are farcical .... there is so much cheating .. and the staff don't give a shit/participate in the cheating! During one assignment at a different college, the staff were hands-on with students, and gave everyone cheat sheets etc etc .....

When I was a student at uni, half of my class were caught cheating. They had copied and pasted the computer code from another student .... what are the chances of fifteen students writing identical code???!!! The head of faculty read out their names at the beginning of a lecture .. it was like a roll-call! None of them were punished ..... it would have made a great newspaper story!

Cheating is rife in education ..... I have lost faith in it :(

Edited by Home_To_Roost

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Cheating is rife in education ..... I have lost faith in it :(

If that is true anyone who cheats will soon be sussed out......they will not pass their probationary period. ;)

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As an example my sons exam grades for physics A level would have given him an A grade

BUT

They had a last practical to do which came back UNGRADED for most of the kids who took it, my son included

This cost my son an A grade overall but as he still got 2 A's and a B in physics he met his offer grades for Uni.

A teacher who is retiring told us that this practical cost others their University place - the teacher responsible has gone off sick.

When I tried to find out what had gone wrong my calls were ignored and in the end because my son didn't lose out, we just had to accept that he had a narrow escape and gave up.

The thing is this is not the only thing like this that happened - as I said I could fill pages with this stuff.

So before everyone starts saying how easy exams have become - just bear in mind that any kid who went to a bog standard state A level college and got 3 A's either bust their balls for 2 years or is an absolute bloody genius.

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I've had a word and you can start as Sec of State for Education on Monday if you're free.

It's tragic that the system has fallen so far. Just two observations that underline my view;

1. When I did "A" levels, because I was doing well at my Maths, it was decided I would be entered for the JMB certificate as that was considered more challenging and a more worthwhile pursuit. This is the polar opposite of the picture you paint.

2. A friend of mine involved in education tells me that schools have now become superb at training people to pass exams.

Precisely. There is a world of difference between coaching and teaching.

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As an example my sons exam grades for physics A level would have given him an A grade

BUT

They had a last practical to do which came back UNGRADED for most of the kids who took it, my son included

This cost my son an A grade overall but as he still got 2 A's and a B in physics he met his offer grades for Uni.

A teacher who is retiring told us that this practical cost others their University place - the teacher responsible has gone off sick.

When I tried to find out what had gone wrong my calls were ignored and in the end because my son didn't lose out, we just had to accept that he had a narrow escape and gave up.

The thing is this is not the only thing like this that happened - as I said I could fill pages with this stuff.

So before everyone starts saying how easy exams have become - just bear in mind that any kid who went to a bog standard state A level college and got 3 A's either bust their balls for 2 years or is an absolute bloody genius.

What is this obsession with grades, qualifications, universities.......at the end of the day a person will do what they want to do and no amount of ticks will guarantee a healthy wealthy life....if someone wants something bad enough they will get it whatever. ;)

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If that is true anyone who cheats will soon be sussed out......they will not pass their probationary period. ;)

Exam boards know that private shools coursework will all come back as A grades even if pupils are scoring B's in exams.

They also know that many state pupils scoring A's in exams will end up with coursework graded C because in my experience state schools just cannot cope with 'coursework'

As an example my son wasted weeks trying to get his biology experiment to work

turns out the enzyme he was given was 2 years out of date !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This also impacted his other subjects because instead of revising over the 2 week holiday before his exams he was redoing his biology experiment at home using new enzyme and equipment we bought over the internet which took me a month to track down and cost 100 quid.

In the end he just managed to scrape an A overall which meant he just met his offer grades after the college managed to screw up his physics practical as explained in the previous post.

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