The Coalition Is Actually Increasing Spending

[leicestersq]

The dictator guy always arrives post collapse.

They don't come early and save everyone, the political capital of the current regime has to be fully expended first. Then after he's killed zillions with his arrogant uselessness it's back to a republic style of thing for a few generations until everyone forgets why the state/banking system is to be kept firmly in it's box and it's off we go again.

"They don't come early and save everyone"

Sometimes they do, but no one notices when something doesnt happen.

[Injin]

Interesting. Expand?

Only people who feel worthless need to improve and/or demonstrate their self worth. Someone who genuinely felt they had value in and of themselves would have zero reason to do anything as ridiculous as prove it.

Generally a lack of self worth is due to humilation at the hands of others (though it can be at the hands of fate: accident victims and so on.)

Therefore, "because we're worth it" comes about from a profound feeling of not being worth it, which the culture is designed to cover over. The elaboration of a bad liar, a cry for help.

[bogbrush]

Only people who feel worthless need to improve and/or demonstrate their self worth. Someone who genuinely felt they had value in and of themselves would have zero reason to do anything as ridiculous as prove it.

Generally a lack of self worth is due to humilation at the hands of others (though it can be at the hands of fate: accident victims and so on.)

Therefore, "because we're worth it" comes about from a profound feeling of not being worth it, which the culture is designed to cover over. The elaboration of a bad liar, a cry for help.

In the context of the L'Oreal advert, or conspicuous consumption, I agree.

There is another context though where for example people might expect someone else to look after their aged parent because to do so themselves would simply interfere with the life they want. In that case it's less about humiliation and more about ungrateful selfish *******. In turn that thinking may have been imprinted onto people by the development of a norm, perhaps by watching the examples of high profile people or simply by subliminal messages, for example the cry that "there's nobody to look after the aged", which contains within it the presumption that of course their children are excluded even from consideration for the task.

My personal view is that when it comes to my parents, I owe them and you don't, and I wouldn't dream of asking you to care for them, nor of my neglecting them.

Edited September 17, 2010 by bogbrush

[Injin]

In the context of the L'Oreal advert, or conspicuous consumption, I agree.

There is another context though where for example people might expect someone else to look after their aged parent because to do so themselves would simply interfere with the life they want. In that case it's less about humiliation and more about ungrateful selfish *******. In turn that thinking may have been imprinted onto people by the development of a "norm", perhaps by watching the examples of high profile peole or simply by the subliminal message, forexample "there's nobody to look after aged parents", which contains within it the presumption that of course their children are excluded even from consideration for the task.

My personal view is that when it comes to my parents, I owe them and you don't, and I wouldn't dream of asking you to care for them, nor of neglecting them.

My personal view is that you don't owe them and neither does anyone else.

If you love them and like them and that's why you are taking care of them, that's great. Doing it out of some misguided sense of duty is humilating, especially if you don't really like them at all. (Not saying this is the case, just outlining the idea.)

Someone who was only looking after their parents, or indeed doing any other task, due to some social stigma or poor moral argument while actually hating every second of it and wanting to do something else would indeed be humiliated. And isn't this why most folks are going to work at the moment?

Keeping up with the jones's and what will "they" say make the modern world go round. Very bad juju.

[bogbrush]

My personal view is that you don't owe them and neither does anyone else.

If you love them and like them and that's why you are taking care of them, that's great. Doing it out of some misguided sense of duty is humilating, especially if you don't really like them at all. (Not saying this is the case, just outlining the idea.)

Someone who was only looking after their parents, or indeed doing any other task, due to some social stigma or poor moral argument while actually hating every second of it and wanting to do something else would indeed be humiliated. And isn't this why most folks are going to work at the moment?

No, you're right there. I'd do it because I love them. I used "owe" loosely.

Keeping up with the jones's and what will "they" say make the modern world go round. Very bad juju.

Insane really. What state must a mind be in to need the approval of these people?

[ken_ichikawa]

Only people who feel worthless need to improve and/or demonstrate their self worth. Someone who genuinely felt they had value in and of themselves would have zero reason to do anything as ridiculous as prove it.

Generally a lack of self worth is due to humilation at the hands of others (though it can be at the hands of fate: accident victims and so on.)

Therefore, "because we're worth it" comes about from a profound feeling of not being worth it, which the culture is designed to cover over. The elaboration of a bad liar, a cry for help.

You should try being Chinese..... this society has been orchestrated to look down at you at all times. People will actively look for ways to humiliate and undermine you all of the time...

My dad therefore sees a constant need to show off to others as do many other Chinese people.... my dad finds it very strange as to why I don't give a damn about what people think about me. I.e. he finds it strange as to why I ride a 12 year old bike and won't load up on debt to buy a newer bike. My dad is currently resorting to an insane 80K plan to extend his house to show off to his peers.

All of my family absolutely hate me because of my pretty much nilhlistic tendancies. They get very confused when they say something like, "aren't you afraid somebody is looking?"

But all through my teens being looked down on and having to 'do good' so as to prove to them I was worth something really messed me up psychologically. For instance my dad on the phone 3 days ago was pleased I got a FT job and said, you've got to do your job and stay in it to prove the doubters wrong... I thought WTF? Although there is risk my future boss will read this I'm only doing this job to secure funding for another motorbike adventure. Nothing more..

A mental break down in my mid 20s made me realise I should measure things on my own yarsticks and simply no longer care anymore....

[ken_ichikawa]

Insane really. What state must a mind be in to need the approval of these people?

It is a human social evolutionary path which has become obsolete. 5000 years ago upto as recent as 50 years ago many farming communities were tight. You had to look good in the eyes of others, if you didn't they'd give you the boot into the nasty outside world and you would die.

Since agriculture has dominated human society for nearly 10000 years this is intrenched in much human psychology and takes time to be deprogrammed out of society.... But we don't live in farming communes anymore...

EDIT

Though the problem is if we go all Mad max Injinworld then such a social programmed mentality will be useful as villages will group together for cooperative society as mutual defence and usefulness and hterefore face will make a comeback.

Edited September 17, 2010 by ken_ichikawa

[Timm]

(...)

Keeping up with the jones's and what will "they" say make the modern world go round. Very bad juju.

So you don't think social approbation or disapprobation have any place in society?

[bogbrush]

It is a human social evolutionary path which has become obsolete. 5000 years ago upto as recent as 50 years ago many farming communities were tight. You had to look good in the eyes of others, if you didn't they'd give you the boot into the nasty outside world and you would die.

Since agriculture has dominated human society for nearly 10000 years this is intrenched in much human psychology and takes time to be deprogrammed out of society.... But we don't live in farming communes anymore...

EDIT

Though the problem is if we go all Mad max Injinworld then such a social programmed mentality will be useful as villages will group together for cooperative society as mutual defence and usefulness and hterefore face will make a comeback.

Those are interesting points; "keeping up" as an expression of an otherwise useful evolution, bit like getting fat is?

I still think it's a distortion, a mutation. I don't see why looking into someones eyes means you have to revolve around them.

[scottbeard]

The dictator guy always arrives post collapse.

They don't come early and save everyone, the political capital of the current regime has to be fully expended first. Then after he's killed zillions with his arrogant uselessness it's back to a republic style of thing for a few generations until everyone forgets why the state/banking system is to be kept firmly in it's box and it's off we go again.

You make it sound so normal - but in Britain there hasn't been a dictator for 400 years. In light of that, must your pattern always be so?

Someone who was only looking after their parents, or indeed doing any other task, due to some social stigma or poor moral argument while actually hating every second of it and wanting to do something else would indeed be humiliated. And isn't this why most folks are going to work at the moment?

Ah but who is the judge of what is a poor argument and what a sound one? Not all would agree with you.

[Injin]

So you don't think social approbation or disapprobation have any place in society?

I certainly do, but the actual stuff. Not crazy fantasies about "what other people think" that vanish as soon as you ask them.

[Injin]

Those are interesting points; "keeping up" as an expression of an otherwise useful evolution, bit like getting fat is?

I still think it's a distortion, a mutation. I don't see why looking into someones eyes means you have to revolve around them.

It is indeed something we are prone to, exactly like our prediliction for sugars and fats and yes it can be watched for in the same way.

Tapeworms relase chemicals that cause a craving for sugar.

Some human parasites work the same way for emotional needs.