An Hpc Manifesto!

[Kyoto]

I had an idea that I've been meaning to act on for a while, but haven't gotten around to. So I'm going to pitch it here....

I propose that we write a high level 'manifesto' document that summarizes the core arguments on this site in relation to house prices - namely how high prices damage our society, reduce the competitiveness of our economy, reduce our quality of life etc.

I see this as maybe a 1 or 2 page document of digestible bullet points that is not too TFH - so no ranting about the NWO, collapse of fiat etc - just a short document that explains the common sense arguments that might give people a new perspective on the madness.

If people think this is a good idea, and would be willing to collaboratively work on it via this site, I would then take responsibility for printing and physically mailing this 'manifesto' to every MP in the country, and a selection of other people such as newspaper editor, columnists, bloggers, personal finance reporters etc. I would also post any replies from these people back to the site.

It isn't going to change the world, but even if it makes 1 or 2 people of influence realise then it would be worth it.

Let me know your thoughts and ideas. I'd probably want to see some enthusiasm from the site to get off my ass and do this

[Lennon]

Consider me very enthusiastic about anyone else doing anything, and very apathetic about actually doing anything myself...

[Johnny Storm]

Im too busy earning lots of money towards buying a house.

[DeepLurker]

It would probably fit very well into the HPC wiki (if the site admins ever get round to making the wiki display correctly in Firefox, hint, hint...)

[Game_Over]

I had an idea that I've been meaning to act on for a while, but haven't gotten around to. So I'm going to pitch it here....

I propose that we write a high level 'manifesto' document that summarizes the core arguments on this site in relation to house prices - namely how high prices damage our society, reduce the competitiveness of our economy, reduce our quality of life etc.

I see this as maybe a 1 or 2 page document of digestible bullet points that is not too TFH - so no ranting about the NWO, collapse of fiat etc - just a short document that explains the common sense arguments that might give people a new perspective on the madness.

If people think this is a good idea, and would be willing to collaboratively work on it via this site, I would then take responsibility for printing and physically mailing this 'manifesto' to every MP in the country, and a selection of other people such as newspaper editor, columnists, bloggers, personal finance reporters etc. I would also post any replies from these people back to the site.

It isn't going to change the world, but even if it makes 1 or 2 people of influence realise then it would be worth it.

Let me know your thoughts and ideas. I'd probably want to see some enthusiasm from the site to get off my ass and do this

I once started an apathy society and it was a tremendous success

No one bothered to turn up

[Kyoto]

Im too busy earning lots of money towards buying a house.

3,604 posts says otherwise

The point is, spending a few hours actually putting something together for the outside world instead of preaching to the converted on here might be worth thinking about.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Kyoto

[Game_Over]

3,604 posts says otherwise

The point is, spending a few hours actually putting something together for the outside world instead of preaching to the converted on here might be worth thinking about.

The problem is half the people here aren't 'converted' even after the mass expulsion.

[Lennon]

The point is, spending a few hours actually putting something together for the outside world instead of preaching to the converted on here might be worth thinking about.

It is a genuinely good and worth while idea - the only thing is that in order to best get noticed, you really want to phrase it in a campaign style "We are campaigning for..." and ideally a campaign that asks someone (usually the gubbermint) to do something (or stop doing something) - I'm not sure what you would list as a campaign. Obviously we want lower house prices, and we have a whole bunch of reasons why that would be good for society and not just self-interest; but you can't ask the government to lower house prices, they are a fair market (they will say) which dictates its own levels. If you go for a 'campaign against government interference' they you are starting off down a bit of a side-alley rather than hitting the thing straight on.

[John The Pessimist]

Dibs I get to contribute the points containing hearsay, inaccuracies, speculative opinion and rumours.

I'm also happy to offer blind prejudice and bloody minded stupidity.

Edit- Typo

Edited September 16, 2010 by John The Pessimist

[Authoritarian]

If politicians are so dense they need the economic benefits of affordable housing spoon fed to them the battle has already been lost.

Can we start a riot instead?

[Authoritarian]

If you go for a 'campaign against government interference' they you are starting off down a bit of a side-alley rather than hitting the thing straight on.

QE, ZIRP (zero interest rate policy), bailouts, asset swaps and government sponsored mergers were all measures aimed at keeping house prices high at the taxpayers expense. If they hadn't have taken these measures housing would be a lot more affordable right now and this manifesto wouldn't be needed. I'd say that was tackling the thing head on.

[Kyoto]

QE, ZIRP (zero interest rate policy), bailouts, asset swaps and government sponsored mergers were all measures aimed at keeping house prices high at the taxpayers expense. If they hadn't have taken these measures housing would be a lot more affordable right now and this manifesto wouldn't be needed. I'd say that was tackling the thing head on.

This is a key part of it for me. With socialised losses, there's no downside for banks in keeping up aggressive lending.

[Laughing Gnome]

3,604 posts says otherwise

Quite. Pseuds corner.

[Keep Walking]

I had an idea that I've been meaning to act on for a while, but haven't gotten around to. So I'm going to pitch it here....

I propose that we write a high level 'manifesto' document that summarizes the core arguments on this site in relation to house prices - namely how high prices damage our society, reduce the competitiveness of our economy, reduce our quality of life etc.

I see this as maybe a 1 or 2 page document of digestible bullet points that is not too TFH - so no ranting about the NWO, collapse of fiat etc - just a short document that explains the common sense arguments that might give people a new perspective on the madness.

If people think this is a good idea, and would be willing to collaboratively work on it via this site, I would then take responsibility for printing and physically mailing this 'manifesto' to every MP in the country, and a selection of other people such as newspaper editor, columnists, bloggers, personal finance reporters etc. I would also post any replies from these people back to the site.

It isn't going to change the world, but even if it makes 1 or 2 people of influence realise then it would be worth it.

Let me know your thoughts and ideas. I'd probably want to see some enthusiasm from the site to get off my ass and do this

Asset devaluation is a necessary evil, such as when the assets in question were simply over-valued. This boom & bust social manipulation is undemocratic, unsustainable & socially inefficient, but here we are again.

Can we suggest a better alternative manifesto?

[shell]

Please go ahead and I will sign / forward / comment in support.

[Johnny Storm]

3,604 posts says otherwise

If you check any of my posts this year, they are all weekends and out of office hours.

Far too busy to look at hpc during the working day.

[skewed value]

It's something that I was thinking about last night.

Trying to explain the whole thing from Genesis forwards, to my parents over dinner last weekend was hard work!

It would enable me to recruit people around to HPC without sounding like a selfish FTB.

[NEO72]

Happy to help out-like you say, changing a few minds is a more productive use of time than whinging on here about how unfair life is all day.

Maybe have a look at pricedout - they seem pretty organised. There's also the homebuyers strike facebook page (link below) and I think i've heard of an hpc FB page too? Worth mentioning all these if you go to the media (it all adds weight to the story).

Good luck and ignore the apathetic responses - I think some bears here actually don't want prices to fall (they'd have nothing to moan about in their sowing circles see..)

[benzlife]

How about a campaign for 'fairer housing' rather than a document dedicated specifically to lower house prices. This could then take in all sorts of 'fair' policies related to both buyers and renters.

Ideally the policies should be more about putting in place measures to keep future house prices in line with salaries and avoiding future bubbles. I think it should also promote a shift towards the renter with regards to letting as well as policies which allow more house building to happen in this country.

The key, IMO, is to only argue for things that it would be unreasonable to argue against!

[harumph]

one thing worth digging out is income to median property values. I know that by keeping property low it has enabled germany to keep wages in check and thus have an incredibly competetive manufacturing and export industry. I'm not sure how to use that information but it's a good solid reason to want to ALLOW house prices to fall back.

It's a great idea and something that would be worth doing a good job on, the media is starting to come around to it - so it might get some attention, and the more complicated versions can go out to MPs.

Could it be worth creating a website with a gimick on? If you've seen the post lately with the government site that allows you to find a house around london you can afford to buy. How about a "if house prices slide by XX% - what could you afford to trade UP to - or how could your lifestyle change?"

hmmm, just ideas. LOVE the manifesto idea!

[Kazuya]

HPC Mascot:

[harumph]

one more thing! When dealing with deep rooted beliefs (like house prices always go up) you have a hard time breaking the ice on the idea

Read the book by Richard Dawkins called the God Delusion. He is trying to convert people away from their religion and he does a fantastic job at it. The way he opens up the topic and gets the prejudices out of the way first and almost dares people to read the book - especially if they automatically challenge his concept.

Using some of his opening techniques to open the manifesto document could make it more powerful, although you'll have to be a better wordsmith than I to change the concept from "God is a load of boll#cks" to "high house prices are a load of boll#cks".

you can find the book as a PDF on the web

[Milton]

How about a Tax Revolt, organised by the taxpayers alliance?

Or everyone in the UK who is priced out of housing, collectively taking the same day off work, with media coverage?

Wishful thinking I know, but I would love to see something hardcore like that happen.

Good Idea on the manifesto though. [i think the other site pricedout.org have done some of that type of stuff already. Some of it is on the web]

Edited September 16, 2010 by Dan1

[Self Employed Youth]

If politicians are so dense they need the economic benefits of affordable housing spoon fed to them the battle has already been lost.

Can we start a riot instead?

Some of us are prime candidates (users like me self), whilst we could be easily exploited I don't think it would further HPCer's cause. Just keep reporting facts, stay away from the idealogy of the sheeple. The facts need speak only for themselves. End of!

[Snow Birds]

Whilst the dumb-ass replies you have received so far are not encouraging your idea sounds pretty good and it sure can't hurt. So count me in for feed-back and I'll contribute what I can. I would suggest trying to make lower house prices sound like a fashionable and good thing to do for children and possibly small furry animals and all of mankind or even the planet or the galaxy if you can swing it. I'm sure you get my drift. Facts and figures and common sense are not particularly sexy enough for the average person to understand or care about. You probably have to treat the whole subject is a similar way to selling curly light bulbs.

Notwithstanding the above I would help out, even if you reject my ideas, since it is your baby. Whaddya want first?