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Heard a few guys in the pub this evening talking about their BTLs.

Both guys had tenants in rent arrears, one had been round to the property and said the place looked like a 'crack den' through the window and was talking with his solicitor about eviction.

Via MSE this evening I ended up at the forum below. Pages and pages of horror stories - non payment, evictions, damage, disappearing tenants etc.

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3

The schad is strong in the Kyoto residence tonight.

Think this has put me off BTL for good to be honest.

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Heard a few guys in the pub this evening talking about their BTLs.

Both guys had tenants in rent arrears, one had been round to the property and said the place looked like a 'crack den' through the window and was talking with his solicitor about eviction.

Via MSE this evening I ended up at the forum below. Pages and pages of horror stories - non payment, evictions, damage, disappearing tenants etc.

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3

The schad is strong in the Kyoto residence tonight.

Think this has put me off BTL for good to be honest.

Being a LL is a lot of work and stress. Frankly, you can make more money in the stockmarket - even now if you have investing balls of steel... but longer-term, once the markets are more stable, you probably could have many years of happy growth investments.

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Being a LL is a lot of work and stress.

It doesn't have to be with a good letting agent working for you and landlord insurance.

I suspect those the OP overheard had neither.

Edited by exiges

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Despite all the media attention to HPI, the stock market - if played with the samne capital as the housing market over the last few decades - will have yielded 3 times more money. I remember the 3x figure, but not the link sadly, but promise it is true. Also, you have much more freedom, probably similar levels but different kind of stress - and if like me you hate having to deal with

and listen to their excuses, their liberties :P , stocks make more sense.

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Despite all the media attention to HPI, the stock market - if played with the samne capital as the housing market over the last few decades - will have yielded 3 times more money. I remember the 3x figure, but not the link sadly, but promise it is true. Also, you have much more freedom, probably similar levels but different kind of stress - and if like me you hate having to deal with

and listen to their excuses, their liberties :P , stocks make more sense.

Isn't that if you're playing with your own money? The great thing about buy to let was you could get leverage.

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Girl I know has a BTL and lives in rented herself because she doesnt earn enough qualify for the residential mortgage. Has no equity in the BTL and would have to sell at a loss. If she gets as much as 2 weeks rent areas or void the receivers will step in. I told her to cut her loss and sell now because things are getting a lot worse soon. Of course she wont and will probably be crucified when the receivers sell at auction whenever the next arrears or void happens.

And spare your sympathy, shes basically a greedy little bitch who has a crap junior accounting job but has delusions of being an entrepreneur.

Edited by goldbug9999

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Why would she pay rent (on somewhere to live) on earnings that have been taxed and then pay tax on the rent generated by the BTL.? Does not make sense unless you don't pay tax on the BTL or unless the rent she pays is very small compared with the income generated by the BTL.

Just a guess but sounds like some tax fraud in here as well.

She can afford the mortgage (just) but the bank wont let her convert it from a BTL to a residential one because she would not qualify based on the required multiple of her income.

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She can afford the mortgage (just) but the bank wont let her convert it from a BTL to a residential one because she would not qualify based on the required multiple of her income.

Complete madness isnt it?

How can it possibly be sensible to lend people money for BTL when they would not be able to afford the place to live in? No wonder we are in a mess.

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Complete madness isnt it?

How can it possibly be sensible to lend people money for BTL when they would not be able to afford the place to live in? No wonder we are in a mess.

Presumably got the mortage in the times they handed them out like candy. Trying to convert it now though is impossible. She joins hundreds of thousands locked with their current mortgage and vendors unable to escape and get a better deal.

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Presumably got the mortage in the times they handed them out like candy. Trying to convert it now though is impossible. She joins hundreds of thousands locked with their current mortgage and vendors unable to escape and get a better deal.

I wonder just exactly how many people out there would be wiped out by just a small rise in the base rate?

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I wonder just exactly how many people out there would be wiped out by just a small rise in the base rate?

It's not even as predictable as wondering about base rates. We saw some of the big players arbitrarily increase their variable rates only a few weeks ago. Probably will do it again before years end too, if the grape vine is correct.

Grim stuff for the overleveraged and stranded. Tides gone out and they are left seeing the true foundation of their lovely assets.

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Isn't that if you're playing with your own money? The great thing about buy to let was you could get leverage.

I mean wealth, not the accumlation of debt built upon unfathomable debt. I'm sure those indebted are looking "leverage" in the eye right now :lol: I sure as hell am glad to not have any (Ok negligable - a man gotta use credit when buying online - £10 debt don't worry me though, £10m would :rolleyes: )

BTL was a dream - everyone wakes up from a dream. All I'm saying :P

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I wonder just exactly how many more people out there would be wiped bailed out by just a small rise in the base rate?

Corrected

Edited by exiges

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My god I could add to this horror story thread. I know landlords, 2 friends are them. I am firmly with us bears; the bulls of the past, from what I see (and I do not push the bear agenda on them, ever - I like them, but secretly disagree with their "gains"), are now turning as fearful as the FTB was fearful 3 years ago. As an anecdote then:

Friend had to move 3 years ago for work, kept old house as amateur BTL - there must be so many! Now payments dried up - agent can't get payments, LL can't push too hard, loses rent, losing a lot tbh. BTL is buy to lose in my part of the world. Property falls into disarray, the landlord has to rely on under the radar electricians to do work whilst "ignoring the major work that needs doing" to the swimming pool for example - illegal power hooked up bypassing the meter as it happens. It's getting grim out there - borderline stuff. Breaking point indeed for many already - and that's on 0.x% - when it becomes even 5.x% we'll see many blowing their tops. Can't be avoided, but equally - it's not like they've not been given the extra few years to ditch. That's the way I see it - the indebted have been kindly given a couple of years extra in which to unload thier leverage hell. If they failed to read the signs (the rich certainly wouldn't have, and that's all that matters to the powers) then tough cheese - here we go!! All the damned way down now.

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Heard a few guys in the pub this evening talking about their BTLs.

Both guys had tenants in rent arrears, one had been round to the property and said the place looked like a 'crack den' through the window and was talking with his solicitor about eviction.

Via MSE this evening I ended up at the forum below. Pages and pages of horror stories - non payment, evictions, damage, disappearing tenants etc.

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3

The schad is strong in the Kyoto residence tonight.

Think this has put me off BTL for good to be honest.

BTL works if you borrow money at the start of a housing boom.

It will also work if you can collect all the rent regularly. The courts dont help in that regard, all the power is with the tenant. Unless you are the sort of person who doesnt need the courts to collect, you shouldnt touch BTL.

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Exactly the downturn finished in March 09 and prices started rising again - relief as they survived the great house price crash of 2008 to 2009 ... and BTL was back on with record low interest rates and rising house prices. You would have had to be mad to sell.

It's been nothing more than a token to the rich. The message between the lines will have read - get out now, we've given you a year or two to sell, good luck. I don't see any long term promise in the actions of the government (think on inevitable rising base rates and their knock on effect which cannot be held off for much longer). And I do hope that those who are over leveraged have managed to finalise their exit strategies by now, I honestly do. Because it's going to be a case of a major blood letting now in terms of credit/ debt/ leverage/ the whole ugly mess.. In the end (and it always has been to be fair) it's every man for himself (herself).

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Reminds me of something my debt laden brother always says to me: When you owe the bank 10,000 pounds you worry; when you owe the bank a million pounds they worry! He seems to have been right for the last twenty years: I've never been in debt and the bank manager doesn't know I exist; my brother gets regular phone calls on his birthday and even christmas cards!

What a mad, mad country we have become.

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Unless you are the sort of person who doesnt need the courts to collect, you shouldnt touch BTL.

interesting words

many recent amateur accidental landlords wouldn't say boo to a goose, in fact many people working professionally in the lettings sector these past 5 years have been like that - soft due to HPI

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It doesn't have to be with a good letting agent working for you and landlord insurance.

I suspect those the OP overheard had neither.

Exactly. It's a business for those prepared to treat it as a business. I've never had any contact with my current landlord: the agent deals with both of us and things tick along. It's generally easier to talk to an agent who 'knows the ropes' when something needs doing, and of course if anything needs fixing, the agent is a big client to the tradesmen, so they're always anxious to please!

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Exactly. It's a business for those prepared to treat it as a business. I've never had any contact with my current landlord: the agent deals with both of us and things tick along. It's generally easier to talk to an agent who 'knows the ropes' when something needs doing, and of course if anything needs fixing, the agent is a big client to the tradesmen, so they're always anxious to please!

I do wonder if in the main this is an parallel for the american goldrush - the people who ended up making the most money and keeping it where the ones that sold the spades, not the gold diggers themselves

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Tenants aren't fools - they know when they are being exploited and they treat landlords as they believe is fitting.

Ten years ago rents were cheaper than mortgages and less scary - people took debt seriously and wouldn't take one on that they doubted they could honour. Moreover, in those days a landlord was a brave person, they could have tenants for life with regulated rents and this was reflected in their property values. Unfortunately the whole landlord model has been skewed by the modern BTL-er - sky high rents to cover bloated property prices with their bloated mortgages. How could anyone think that using the private rental sector to house people on benefits was a good idea? (I don't know off hand the percentage of benefit claimants mopped up by social housing but it can't be more than 25%).

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Tenants aren't fools - they know when they are being exploited and they treat landlords as they believe is fitting.

This is priceless.

The landlord doesn't force them to live there, the tenant chose that property, agreed that rent but once in they're suddenly being exploited ?

Beggars belief.

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This is priceless.

The landlord doesn't force them to live there, the tenant chose that property, agreed that rent but once in they're suddenly being exploited ?

Beggars belief.

The Beggars phrase you were looking for is can't be choosers.

The factory owner didn't force them to work there, the worker chose that workplace, agreed the pay and conditions, but once in they're suddenly being exploited.

(even when the employer/landlord is Mr Bounderby/Mr Hoogstraaten, and the alternative to working/living there is to starve/doss under the embankment).

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  • 142 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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