The Spaniard Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 (edited) http://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/2010/09/carswell-on-bank-reform.html And to think that some on this forum say that we money reformers are commies ... Edited September 13, 2010 by The Spaniard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 (edited) http://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/2010/09/carswell-on-bank-reform.html And to think that some on this forum say that we money reformers are commmies ... Anyone who doesn't let me create my own money with whom ever I choose is a ........ Edit: Okay I'll read the link now Edited September 13, 2010 by Alan B'Stard MP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinesin Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 (edited) Link to Carswell's blog: http://www.talkcarswell.com/default.aspx Interesting quote: UPDATE: To be clear, this Bill does not stop banks from treating your deposit as a loan. You just have to make clear that you give them permission to do so. There would, in effect, be two types of bank account; one where it was made clear that you owned the money (and probably paid for banking services in fees), and one where the bank was free to lend on your money like they owned it. And even may be put it into complex financial instruments not even they understood, for example. Edited September 13, 2010 by kinesin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spaniard Posted September 13, 2010 Author Share Posted September 13, 2010 Anyone who doesn't let me create my own money with whom ever I choose is a ........ Edit: Okay I'll read the link now Don't know for sure, but my hunch is that Douglas Carswell is in favour of free banking and competing currencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 That's actually a very clever reform indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Don't know for sure, but my hunch is that Douglas Carswell is in favour of free banking and competing currencies. Then that's a mile away from your own leanings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spaniard Posted September 13, 2010 Author Share Posted September 13, 2010 Then that's a mile away from your own leanings. In what way(s)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 In what way(s)? You want to tell everyone what to do at gunpoint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spaniard Posted September 13, 2010 Author Share Posted September 13, 2010 You want to tell everyone what to do at gunpoint? Does DC want to abolish completely the state? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Does DC want to abolish completely the state? You can have a state and not involve it in banking, you know! No need to make it a giant philsophical "state versus the individual" effort today, much as I enjoy them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spaniard Posted September 13, 2010 Author Share Posted September 13, 2010 You can have a state and not involve it in banking, you know! No need to make it a giant philsophical "state versus the individual" effort today, much as I enjoy them. Does DC want to abolish taxation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Does DC want to abolish taxation? I have no idea! You can have taxation without interfering in banking as well, you know! Muggers manage it, i'm sure this clown and his chums can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spaniard Posted September 13, 2010 Author Share Posted September 13, 2010 I have no idea! You can have taxation without interfering in banking as well, you know! Muggers manage it, i'm sure this clown and his chums can. So why did you suggest previously that DC would not force people 'at gunpoint' , by contrasting him with those who you state would? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 So why did you suggest previously that DC would not force people 'at gunpoint' , by contrasting him with those who you state would? I didn't. I stated that you want to force everyone at gunpoint. IF DC is in favour of market banking, then his view is in stark contrast with yours. I don't know about his views. I do know about yours. In any event, possibly you can relax. This is pure banksterism at work here. They want to carry on FRB, but blame the victims by enticing them to bad contract. It won't matter. the fraud is still perpertrated on those who borrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 In what way(s)? "free" No gunman turning up because I traded my debt certificate for something more liquid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 "free" No gunman turning up because I traded my debt certificate for something more liquid. Oh god, don't you start! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 (edited) Oh god, don't you start! I'm starting to realize you have to be blunt about these things - especially when faced with blind idealism. Edited September 13, 2010 by Alan B'Stard MP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 I'm starting to realize you have to be blunt about these things - especially when faced with blind idealism. Welcome to the Niemöller doctrine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spaniard Posted September 13, 2010 Author Share Posted September 13, 2010 I didn't. Alan stated that DC and I were miles apart. I asked in what ways. You responded that I wanted to force at gunpoint. That is suggesting that DC doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 (edited) Alan stated that DC and I were miles apart. I asked in what ways. You responded that I wanted to force at gunpoint. That is suggesting that DC doesn't. ..on the banking issue. You asked me about forcing people in general. Edit: Seriously though, why get tetchy? You are willing to stick a gun in my face, why so squeamish when it's pointed out? Edited September 13, 2010 by Injin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spaniard Posted September 13, 2010 Author Share Posted September 13, 2010 ..on the banking issue. You asked me about forcing people in general. So you suggested that, limited to the context of banking, DC would not force at gunpoint, whereas I would? Is that your position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B'Stard MP Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 (edited) Alan stated that DC and I were miles apart. I asked in what ways. You responded that I wanted to force at gunpoint. That is suggesting that DC doesn't. Competing currencies. If the competing currency issuer maintains the price of his currency with the national currency (I am assuming there is still a legal tender currency?) from his equity - how does this differ in essence from our current system? In regards to you own proposals. Will you still allow me to trade my debt certificate (money I have loaned) with an entity willing to trade that certificate (say a bank) who will sell that on to someone else - how exactly are you changing our monetary system? If you want to change our monetary system - you will have to outlaw this practice - and enforce it with gunmen. This is why you are an -ism. Communism is a good fit. Edited September 13, 2010 by Alan B'Stard MP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 So you suggested that, limited to the context of banking, DC would not force at gunpoint, whereas I would? Is that your position? If that's his position. Chill winston, theres nothing to be won here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spaniard Posted September 13, 2010 Author Share Posted September 13, 2010 Competing currencies. If the competing currency issuer maintains the price of his currency with the national currency (I am assuming there is still a legal tender currency?) from his equity - how does this difference in essence from our current system? In regards to you own proposals. Will you still allow me to trade my debt certificate (money I have loaned) with an entity willing to trade that certificate (say a bank) who will sell that on to someone else - how exactly are you changing our monetary system? If you want to change our monetary system - you will have to outlaw this practice - and enforce it with gunmen. This is why you are an -ism. Communism is a good fit. Thanks, Alan. A link to some of my thoughts on competing currencies: http://www.secretofoz.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=140:the-spaniard-on-competing-currencies On traded debt, we have discussed this before. Briefly, if such instruments impacted unduly on the vanilla currency then trade in them could be damped down with (e.g.) stamp duty. So no need to ban it or shoot anyone doing it. What I want to change is the institutionalisation of using commercially issued IOUs as the principal (national) means of exchange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Thanks, Alan. A link to some of my thoughts on competing currencies: http://www.secretofoz.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=140:the-spaniard-on-competing-currencies On traded debt, we have discussed this before. Briefly, if such instruments impacted unduly on the vanilla currency then trade in them could be damped down with (e.g.) stamp duty. So no need to ban it or shoot anyone doing it. What I want to change is the institutionalisation of using commercially issued IOUs as the principal (national) means of exchange. Stamp duty is shooting people. If they don't comply. What's the difference between the banks conning us into using their fake money and the government forcing us to use their fake money? Why is being fooled not as good as being forced? If I am fooled I can work it out and escape really easily. I'm not able to do that with the state, they just make up stuff and then shoot me if I don't comply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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