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Cost Of A Degree Thanks To Nu Labour


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What an excellent post.

" Labour has given the jobs away " +1

But they have given everything away along with it.

I have been working in a lettings agency in East London recently. ( sorry but that's the kind of work I can get )

Two of the most common customers I get

1. Wealthy overseas student's , who have come from across the world to study here. As they are students they have to pay the rent for the whole tennancy agreement in advance . Cira £13,000 for the year , on top of that they have their other bills to pay, living cost's and any fees for study . When I quote the rent to them they do not blink.

2. Young 20's something professional couples or sharer's working in the city moving form central or west London. When I ask them why they are moving form west to east the answer is always the same " Priced out " by wealthy foreigner's. I feel as if London has been taken over by the wealthy from across the globe. It also has answered my question Why has an over supply of new build falts in East London not bought the prices down ? Answer there is not an over supply the flats are being moped up by the over spill form west to east London. Sales are not happening but rent's are rising

I know that all this foreign money is good for London's cash flow , However the down side which seems to be getting worse by the day is that the indigenous population is being pushed out . The low pay service sector jobs would not pay for a room in London town anymore and these jobs have a ready supply of overseas poor willing to live in over crowded conditions to be able to afford to live in London and take these jobs.

There is often lots of debate on here about people living on benefits for life ect. however if you have two kids and need to put a roof over your head bought or rented in London and the surrounds ,you have to have a very well paid job or be on benefits. There is no other way of surving in this over expensive International city.

For what I hear, this is becoming a known, and volatile, issue.

I have a couple of old friends, London born and bred, that each run their own small companies. Over the last few years, they have expressed severe reservations and now anger about the impact of the international super rich on the capital.

They feel that the super rich are creating a ripple-effect that is pushing native Londoners further and further out. Not only that, but the effect is turning swathes of London into weird zones where London's native culture has basically been eradicated; indeed, not only the native culture but any kind of atmosphere or culture at all. They call them "dead zones", and are very unhappy about the way certain clubs and establishments have been allowed to open in residential areas -- one of them said, last time I went down, that the super rich are "running riot" through London, disregarding laws, decent behaviour etc.

And I have to say, last time I was down, I was shocked at what has happened to London; I think it has had its soul ripped out. I used to live in Bermondsey/Borough in the late 90s and walking through there now is very sad. All the old London culture has gone, replaced by windswept "designer" plazas and it feels very threatening in a way that it never did in the 90s. Even down the East End, there is a sense that the life has been sucked out of the place, and people look worn down and poor and trodden-on in a way they never did before.

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A postgrad course is a slightly strange concept. Once you're at postgrad level, you should be more research- than course-oriented, and at least in part self-driven. A lot of courses are more about training for a job/career than education, and so have a clear commercial value.

If you'd enquired about signing up to do a PhD, whether on a thesis of your own choosing or as a researcher's lackey (an RA on a funded project), I expect you'd've got a different response.

The "car brochure" for PGT is basically because that is what universities are competing with -- a car. To do a PGT, you are looking at at least £3.5K of fees and then if you do it full time, you will have to find living costs. Before you know it, the damn thing can end up costing the same as a new small car.

I am biased here though, because I think postgraduate taught Masters are brilliant for arts, humanities, business, law and social sciences. It is very, very hard to jump from undergraduate work to PhD work in these areas; many students just don't have the breadth they need in their field to understand exactly what a PhD is, how to do one and what to research.

PGTs combine the "hand holding" of UG work with the "research" work of a PhD, which is one of the reasons why the research councils offer so many 1+3s. Very few PhDs these days will have not done a PGT, and a PGT does embed you in the culture of your university which helps a lot for PhD work and discovering what you actually want to research.

I'd do PGTs until the cows came home if I could afford it, but then I'm a research nerd who likes excuses to spend hours researching women's clothing of Ancient Rome just because it is interesting. :lol:

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So, to summarise the whole thread and address the initial assertion:

Degrees are the same price they have always been it's just that those who decide to take them pay directly rather than the cost being socialised across the whole tax base.

Whether it's worth taking a degree or not is another question entirely, that being the individuals choice.

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The "car brochure" for PGT is basically because that is what universities are competing with -- a car. To do a PGT, you are looking at at least £3.5K of fees and then if you do it full time, you will have to find living costs. Before you know it, the damn thing can end up costing the same as a new small car.

I am biased here though, because I think postgraduate taught Masters are brilliant for arts, humanities, business, law and social sciences. It is very, very hard to jump from undergraduate work to PhD work in these areas; many students just don't have the breadth they need in their field to understand exactly what a PhD is, how to do one and what to research.

PGTs combine the "hand holding" of UG work with the "research" work of a PhD, which is one of the reasons why the research councils offer so many 1+3s. Very few PhDs these days will have not done a PGT, and a PGT does embed you in the culture of your university which helps a lot for PhD work and discovering what you actually want to research.

I'd do PGTs until the cows came home if I could afford it, but then I'm a research nerd who likes excuses to spend hours researching women's clothing of Ancient Rome just because it is interesting. :lol:

Interesting perspective, and I think what it really highlights is the poverty of first degrees. You should be making that transition, at least in part, before you graduate.

I did a PGT myself (this one). It was indeed as you say a taster of postgrad life, and what I learned from it is that I wasn't ready for that at the time (I did return a few years later, at a different university, and in a different subject). I have mixed feelings about it in retrospect: it was fun, but it'd probably have been better for me to be thrust out into the real world a year earlier, despite the deep recession.

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