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Cost Of A Degree Thanks To Nu Labour


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Our sons go to Uni this year & next. Have worked the figures carefully and assuming no part time work income and no help from us and allowing for having a reasonable social life I can't get the o/s debt higher than £22k at graduation. Unis are Cardiff and Bham or Leicester.

As it happens they will get support from us, and grandparents, and they have in demand swimming teacher and lifeguard qualifications and savings of their own which should leave them with less than £10k net debt.

Or maybe £20k debt having had a brilliant time.

Or no debt having worked more than socialising which is very possible if they take after their miserable sod of a Dad.

Is this unusual?

Am I being unfair to suggest that there are some ranting about the cost of higher education who are basically annoyed that its no longer possible to spend 3 years at Uni, have a great time, not work part time, not dip into parents and grandparents pockets and emerge with zero debt?

Discuss.

Erm, just in case anyone is xref'ing threads - yes No.1 son is getting a bursary but I removed that from the calc to align it with the calculations in this thread.

Top universities do not recommend students working to fund their degrees.

If as a result you either fail - or get a poor degree - which is now virtually useless

It sort of defeats the object of going to university in the first place.

Also it is actually not that easy to get part time work these days for obvious reasons

My sons are doing Masters degress which adds an extra year of debt so 20k is the debt they will end up with even after getting grants and bursaries.

I think your calculation of the debts your own kids will incur is wildly optimistic - sorry

Unless you are going to give them 10-15k each.

In case you missed the relevant post - this is the link to the BBC article

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-10952303

:blink:

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The degree system is more like a jobs tax and spend system - get a degree, by whatever means possible - i.e. beg, borrow, steal, spend the money now on a moribund education system and prop up many a btl empire or be be damned to the level of job (very low level) that no longer has a degree as a minimum entry requirement (in most cases utterly unnecessary, nay even counter-productive to both the employee and employer in the long run).

Be damned anyway because the govt. is still hell bent on providing unequal open access to anybody who can get intra company "sponsorhip" for a job, or skip over the border to get it anyway on the cheap, at a price that is wholly inconsistent with the costs involved with permanent residency in this country.

...in many jobs a degree is not required or it is the wrong route to professional skilling ....but it makes it easier for recruitment departments to produce credentials which on paper shine and helps them to shine...a form of protectionism ....to play the game you need a degree in the cultural mindset of most retards recruiting ....from the graduates point of view it is a useful ticket on which to emigrate...... :rolleyes:

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With regards to students working

If you took a university town like Sheffield as an example, with 24,000 students and 16,000 people claiming JSA

the idea that all these students are going to fund their studies by working in Mac Donalds or doing bar work is pretty silly IMO

How many bars and burger joints are there in a town like Sheffield?

On the bright side though, if my daughter goes to Uni she could always pay for her studies by pole dancing.

:blink:

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Why is it considered unreasonable for the person getting the degree to pay for it?

They do get the most benefit out of being qualified after all.

The money is not being asked for up front, it is being loaned on very good terms, almost indefinitely, and the rate at which you pay it back is determined by your income i.e. your ability to pay.

Degrees don't cost any more now than they used to, people are just being asked to admit how much they cost and to pay for one if they want the benefits.

The previous system asked people without degrees to pay for others to get them, which seems very unfair to me.

I went to a Russell group Uni and there was plenty of time for working in the summer holidays, you could have got 3 months work in each year without any trouble at all.

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With regards to students working

If you took a university town like Sheffield as an example, with 24,000 students and 16,000 people claiming JSA

the idea that all these students are going to fund their studies by working in Mac Donalds or doing bar work is pretty silly IMO

How many bars and burger joints are there in a town like Sheffield?

On the bright side though, if my daughter goes to Uni she could always pay for her studies by pole dancing.

:blink:

...many on benefits can't afford to work at MacDonalds.... :rolleyes:

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...in many jobs a degree is not required or it is the wrong route to professional skilling ....but it makes it easier for recruitment departments to produce credentials which on paper shine and helps them to shine...a form of protectionism ....to play the game you need a degree in the cultural mindset of most retards recruiting ....from the graduates point of view it is a useful ticket on which to emigrate...... :rolleyes:

Like it or not in the next 5-10 years you are going to need a degree to get anything other than a minimum wage job IMO.

There will be so many people looking for work that anyone without a degree won't even get an interview.

The fact that most of these jobs would only have required 2 'O' levels 20 years ago says it all.

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Like it or not in the next 5-10 years you are going to need a degree to get anything other than a minimum wage job IMO.

There will be so many people looking for work that anyone without a degree won't even get an interview.

The fact that most of these jobs would only have required 2 'O' levels 20 years ago says it all.

Or no ' O' levels

1980 friend of mine blagged his way into a city bank at 17 saying he had 7 ' O ' levels , attitude was if they found out that he just had one and sacked him he had lost nothing as he was only working on a building site. A few years later when most of us were taking home £40 - £50 a week he was earning over £500 a month.

They did find out but as he had proved himself they kept him on and sent him to night school. Have not spoken to him for years but spotted him dressed in his suite in Canary Wharf a few years back so he must have stayed in banking .

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Like it or not in the next 5-10 years you are going to need a degree to get anything other than a minimum wage job IMO.

There will be so many people looking for work that anyone without a degree won't even get an interview.

The fact that most of these jobs would only have required 2 'O' levels 20 years ago says it all.

.......the only way forward soon without a degree will be self employment....although even with degrees that may well be the best bet soon..... :rolleyes:

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could you say which years?

Well that's the question isn't it.

In case anyone hadn't noticed we are currently in the midst of the worst depression since the 1930s

At Uni 2003-2007 so in much better economic circumstances admittedly.

I was most recently unemployed (not in a "proper" job) Dec 2008 - Sept 2009 when things were truly shite and even then there were jobs to be had, you just have to pound the pavement and keep looking. (swallowing your pride doesn't hurt either).

Things are better now than they were just a year ago and they will get better still over the next year or two.

At the end of the day £20k in debt (avg graduate wage) is not a huge deal when you consider a lifetime of work (until 70 most likely for people my age)

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At Uni 2003-2007 so in much better economic circumstances admittedly.

I was most recently unemployed (not in a "proper" job) Dec 2008 - Sept 2009 when things were truly shite and even then there were jobs to be had, you just have to pound the pavement and keep looking. (swallowing your pride doesn't hurt either).

Things are better now than they were just a year ago and they will get better still over the next year or two.

At the end of the day £20k in debt (avg graduate wage) is not a huge deal when you consider a lifetime of work (until 70 most likely for people my age)

A better bet than that was when they did not demand a degree for a job that does not need one. So at 21 , 22 the person could have had no debt and up to six years work experience under their belt.

Actually when i was 22 1985 i did have debt £34,500 of debt but that was a mortgage on a new flat in London. Most of my peer group did the same thing between then and 25 , oh and many were married by 25 and starting familys with the wife not having to work . We were also paying into pensions that told us we could retire well before 70.

Today many with degrees at 25 are still at home with parent's and job or no job will still be there in years to come.

Edited by miko
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At Uni 2003-2007 so in much better economic circumstances admittedly.

I was most recently unemployed (not in a "proper" job) Dec 2008 - Sept 2009 when things were truly shite and even then there were jobs to be had, you just have to pound the pavement and keep looking. (swallowing your pride doesn't hurt either).

Things are better now than they were just a year ago and they will get better still over the next year or two.

At the end of the day £20k in debt (avg graduate wage) is not a huge deal when you consider a lifetime of work (until 70 most likely for people my age)

I suppose I am 'old' working class and the idea of starting out in life with 20k of debt scares the Hell out of me, I have never been in any debt - apart from a mortgage in my life.

I have told my kids that they should look on it as an investment in their future rather than a debt

And that in terms of a mortgage it is a relatively modest amount of money.

I really hope that the 'optimists' posting on this thread are right and that my kids will graduate with a significant amount of money left in the bank to offset their loans

but to be honest in the current economic climate I think that the BBC's figure, which is similar to my own estimate is going to be the reality.

:blink:

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Well I never thought of that!

So that's part time jobs for about 20

Wonder what the other 24,000 are going to do?

.... MacDonalds was merely an example ....the type of jobs you mentioned especially in catering and bar work are filled either by students / foreign 'students' / immigrants/ EU nationals at entry level ....as stated ....our unemployed can't afford these jobs...and students work tax free .....nice incentive.... :rolleyes:

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Top universities do not recommend students working to fund their degrees.

Unless you are going to give them 10-15k each.

Top universities are up their own arses - of course you won't fail working sensible part time hours. But you probably won't get a 1st either because that generally involves about another 15hours additional study per week, and not getting a 1st if you are capable of it appears to be considered a crime at Oxbridge et al.

We, and the grandparents, are going to give them about £10-15k - a middle way between no help and total bankrolling thats pretty common these days I imagine.

Seems to annoy a lot of folk that they can't prise that money out of general taxation and keep their own pockets buttoned down though.

As for those who genuinely can't afford to help their kids - the brilliant ones will get help, the others, well, they can't afford to go because Labour loonies sent thousands of kids that shouldn't have gone at all and wasted billions on other stupid socialist experiments.

Edited by xux42
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.... MacDonalds was merely an example ....the type of jobs you mentioned especially in catering and bar work are filled either by students / foreign 'students' / immigrants/ EU nationals at entry level ....as stated ....our unemployed can't afford these jobs...and students work tax free .....nice incentive.... :rolleyes:

Yes but after immigrants/ EU nationals have had their share of the jobs

How many part time jobs would be left for 24,000 students in Sheffield as an example?

Not many would be my guess.

So suggesting that students can all avoid massive debts by working seems extremely naive to me

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Decided to start this topic after someone on another thread explained how my son should only have 2K of debt not the 20K plus I had said when he graduates.

This is a link to a BBC article which backs up my figures.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-10952303

Once again I post the reality of a situation and it is rubbished by people who don't have a clue what they are talking about.

:blink:

Why didn't you save any money for your son's education?

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Yes but after immigrants/ EU nationals have had their share of the jobs

How many part time jobs would be left for 24,000 students in Sheffield as an example?

Not many would be my guess.

So suggesting that students can all avoid massive debts by working seems extremely naive to me

...they have equal opportunity to compete....that is something they don't learn at school under Labour ....but will need when they leave Uni if they wish to survive...a degree is no guarantee of survival ....better to get part time work and people skills to combine with the academic side of life... :rolleyes:

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Why didn't you save any money for your son's education?

Good question.

The problem is I was stupid enough to have 3 kids

So if I give them 20k each that would cost me 60k.

Actually I do have the money and would like to give it to them

But Mrs Gameover does not fancy freezing to death in front of a one bar electric fire when we are older

Selfish cow

:blink:

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...omitted the ps...

...they have equal opportunity to compete....that is something they don't learn at school under Labour ....but will need when they leave Uni if they wish to survive...a degree is no guarantee of survival ....better to get part time work and people skills to combine with the academic side of life... :rolleyes:

ps ...nobody claimed there would be work for 24,000 students most of whom would not want it anyway...

Edited by South Lorne
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...they have equal opportunity to compete....that is something they don't learn at school under Labour ....but will need when they leave Uni if they wish to survive...a degree is no guarantee of survival ....better to get part time work and people skills to combine with the academic side of life... :rolleyes:

I really think it depends what degree you are doing.

If someone is doing media studies for example, I would agree

although if you are doing a degree like this it would probably have been better not to go to university in the first place.

What annoys me, is that we were told that social mobility and inequality had been transrormed in the past 13 years wheras in reality these things have actually got much worse IMO.

:blink:

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I really think it depends what degree you are doing.

If someone is doing media studies for example, I would agree

although if you are doing a degree like this it would probably have been better not to go to university in the first place.

What annoys me, is that we were told that social mobility and inequality had been transrormed in the past 13 years wheras in reality these things have actually got much worse IMO.

:blink:

...social mobility in some ways has gone into reverse...many toffs are regionalising their accents to conform and regional diehards are retaining theirs and not aspiring / or degrading themselves to adopt an 'old' BBC style ...that is the positive side ....re work ...most casual work improves people / communication and team skills ....all important to employers to match with a degree.... :rolleyes:

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With regards to students working

If you took a university town like Sheffield as an example, with 24,000 students and 16,000 people claiming JSA

the idea that all these students are going to fund their studies by working in Mac Donalds or doing bar work is pretty silly IMO

How many bars and burger joints are there in a town like Sheffield?

On the bright side though, if my daughter goes to Uni she could always pay for her studies by pole dancing.

:blink:

50000 students there, only a few of lap dancing clubs, but plenty of regulated brothels and hidden ones too, plenty of foreigners mind you. Only 1/5 of the population is on the housing list, it is known as a city of Sanctuary, inviting refugees from around the world.

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