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Uk's Top Tax Official Says He Is Now 'deeply Sorry'

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So basically he is now sorry because it got people angry (or from a phone call from Dave?).

Probably to do with the "wall to wall" campaign by the BBC throughout the day.

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How many people have been sacked over this blunder?

What blunder?

There wasn't one, unless you mean the public who owed tax and didn't bother to read the coding notices and booklet we all receive?

Not sure you can sack them, public aren't employed by HMRC.

Not sure what he is appologising for, and neither is he.

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So basically he is now sorry because it got people angry (or from a phone call from Dave?).

Have you heard an uncut interview prior to him giving his answer about not being sorry?

We all know how the media can play things the way they want - and even if I heard an unedited version I wouldn't give a crap what he said.

He's not there anyway to be apologetic to people - it's just tough sh*t if you underpaid tax cos of nulabour's tax computer.

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What blunder?

There wasn't one, unless you mean the public who owed tax and didn't bother to read the coding notices and booklet we all receive?

Not sure you can sack them, public aren't employed by HMRC.

Not sure what he is appologising for, and neither is he.

Yeah. The 'error' is not quite as severe as made out in the popular press.

It appears to affect those people whose circumstances changed substantially (e.g. took a second job, or increased their salary dramatically) who didn't tell HMRC about it. What would have happened previously is that there was a backup system, where HMRC would act on the information from the employers (if they got a notifcation of a new employee from an employer, etc.) - but that backup appeared to have broken down - so that where people didn't inform HMRC of a change in circumstances, some didn't get their tax code changed automatically - and therefore paid the wrong tax.

EDIT - Hmm. Looked into this a bit further. It looks like the normal backup process *did* take effect, and it found several million incorrect tax records. In which case, this is not a blunder it's how the tax system is supposed to work. If you have a big change in circumstance, you can ask for your tax to be recalculated immediately - otherwise, it gets recalculated at the end of the year. (which is what has just happened).

Presumably, an unusually large number of people have been affected as in 2008-09, there were an unusually large number of job changes, due to redundancies, salary changes and rabid hiring by the public sector.

Edited by ChumpusRex

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The BBC have been running a campaign all day to persecute Mr Hartnett because he refused to follow their orders and apologise on the Money Box programme.

A total abuse of licence payer's money.

Edited by Bootsox

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What blunder?

There wasn't one, unless you mean the public who owed tax and didn't bother to read the coding notices and booklet we all receive?

Not sure you can sack them, public aren't employed by HMRC.

Not sure what he is appologising for, and neither is he.

+ 1

Providing the assessment is an accurate refelection of peoples tax liabilities based on their income I am not sure what they are complaining about. Most have already had the benefit of an interest free loan which has essentially had to be covered by other taxpayers or out of higher government borrowing. If they think the assessment is wrong they have a right to appeal. If they believe there case has been maladministered they can take the matter to the independent Revenue Adjudicators Office or the Ombudsman. Most of the small underpayments look as though they are going to be written off ( a sensible measure which should be widened to all tax payers since chaising such small sums is often not cost effective) and the rest look as though they will be offered extended time to pay. I am not really sure what is supposed to be unfair about this exercise or do people just want to pay higher tax themselves so other people can walk away from their liabilites

The main 'blunder' by HMRC was persisting with an out of date PAYE computer system that allowed the arrears and overpayments to accumulate. However, I dont remember many people moaning to the press in the past about the Revenues failure to assess them on all their earnings. I suspect most kept quiet and simply pocketed the cash. There are many reasons to slag off the tax system for its ludicrous complexities particularly with regard to things such as tax credits where the basis of assessment is completely different from that used for all other areas of the system, This supposed PAYE scandal is not one of them

Edited by realcrookswearsuits

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How many people have been sacked over this blunder?

Two weeks ago I met a woman who'd been sacked from HMRC for what she called "a stupid mistake" - after 20y service. She wouldn't explain. Became self righteous by the end of the conversation.

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Two weeks ago I met a woman who'd been sacked from HMRC for what she called "a stupid mistake" - after 20y service. She wouldn't explain. Became self righteous by the end of the conversation.

....can you imagine this style of accountability among MPs and Cabinet Ministers....?...the majority of the former Nuliebour Cabinet Members would be banned from running in the Head of Party election ...Diane Abbot would be in with a chance if adopted .... :rolleyes:

Edited by South Lorne

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....can you imagine this style of accountability among MPs and Cabinet Ministers....?...the majority of the former Nuliebour Cabinet Members would be banned from running in the Head of Party election ...Diane Abbot would be in with a chance if adopted .... :rolleyes:

However, this "I don't do apologies" attitude came from New Labour! From the very start of the NuLab era none of those Nulab ministers ever apologised or resigned when they fooked up! Problem with that is that the same attitude flows down to the civil service! The other problem is that Nu Labour amplified the Tory approach of employing 'businessmen" to head big government departments! All fine and dandy until there is a major f*ck up! In a ltd or PLC it takes quite a bit of effort to eject someone on the board and those on the board NEVER say "sorry, I got it wrong" as that kind of shit affects share prices etc! Well these pillocks carry that into govt when they get appointed to such positions! They do not realise that saying "sorry" is the easy way out and that they and their screw will be forgotten in days! But no...they take the arrogant New Labour hard ass approach and just take the pish on national radio...idiots!

The guy should have apologised and that would have been that! Instead, I read somewhere that Osborne called him and told him to apologise...

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Two weeks ago I met a woman who'd been sacked from HMRC for what she called "a stupid mistake" - after 20y service. She wouldn't explain. Became self righteous by the end of the conversation.

That'd have to be gross misconduct. Gross misconduct is misconduct so serious that the employer is entitled to dismiss for a first offence.

For instance, fighting, stealing, arson and deliberate falsification of time-sheets will mostly be in that category. (Though even in these extreme cases there is a need for some commonsense. If it is standard practice in a particular workplace that you always claim an hour’s overtime if you have stayed past your finishing time at your supervisor’s request, then a time-sheet that is on its face inaccurate may not in fact be dishonest.)

So I think the fact she wouldn't explain what a silly mistake was implies it wasn't.

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What blunder?

There wasn't one, unless you mean the public who owed tax and didn't bother to read the coding notices and booklet we all receive?

Not sure you can sack them, public aren't employed by HMRC.

Crikey! Do you work for the Inland Revenue or something?

Most of us don't check every single penny our employers deduct in tax. Naively perhaps, we expect our employer, and HMRC, to do their job properly; the UK tax system's so bloody complicated that many accountants stuggle with it.

HMRC have made a blunder on a colossal scale, and their subsequent comments about not-apologising and then apologising show that their PR-skills are left to be desired.

The amount the HMRC owes the taxpayer is not much less than the amount the taxpayer owes the HMRC, and when you take into account the expense of sending letters and chasing the tax (and defending the inevitable legal challenges) there probably isn't much of a difference at all. So why not just write it off? But - hey ho! - that would be too much like common sense, wouldn't it?

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You have to laugh at some of the stupid & more ridiculous comments on here, from people who obviously don't really have a clue whats going on, & therefore are just spouting some of the garbage they've just read/seen in the media.

The so-called blunder of under/overpayments actually happens every financial year, its the way the PAYE system works, just as in self-assessment, some people are underpaid & some are overpaid. Its alright stating tax is complex, but we're talking about very simple stuff here, not complex tax legislation

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You have to laugh at some of the stupid & more ridiculous comments on here, from people who obviously don't really have a clue whats going on, & therefore are just spouting some of the garbage they've just read/seen in the media.

The so-called blunder of under/overpayments actually happens every financial year, its the way the PAYE system works, just as in self-assessment, some people are underpaid & some are overpaid. Its alright stating tax is complex, but we're talking about very simple stuff here, not complex tax legislation

Super. But I think I'll just have the flat tax instead.

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That'd have to be gross misconduct. Gross misconduct is misconduct so serious that the employer is entitled to dismiss for a first offence.

For instance, fighting, stealing, arson and deliberate falsification of time-sheets will mostly be in that category. (Though even in these extreme cases there is a need for some commonsense. If it is standard practice in a particular workplace that you always claim an hour’s overtime if you have stayed past your finishing time at your supervisor’s request, then a time-sheet that is on its face inaccurate may not in fact be dishonest.)

So I think the fact she wouldn't explain what a silly mistake was implies it wasn't.

is arson viewed as gross misconduct now, the nanny state mentality seems to creep into everything, in my day it was just a jolly good jape

Edited by Tamara De Lempicka

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....Most of us don't check every single penny our employers deduct in tax. Naively perhaps, we expect our employer, and HMRC, to do their job properly; the UK tax system's so bloody complicated that many accountants stuggle with it.....

I'm not aware that PAYE was particularly complicated, or were you referring to something else?

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is arson viewed as gross misconduct now, the nanny state mentality seems to creep into everything, in my day it was just a jolly good jape

You are against the nanny state?! I thought you are/were Labour! No?!

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What blunder?

There wasn't one, unless you mean the public who owed tax and didn't bother to read the coding notices and booklet we all receive?

Not sure you can sack them, public aren't employed by HMRC.

Not sure what he is appologising for, and neither is he.

The stupid way that the announcement was made to the press, making it seem that it was HMRC's fault when it isn't.

tim

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You have to laugh at some of the stupid & more ridiculous comments on here, from people who obviously don't really have a clue whats going on, & therefore are just spouting some of the garbage they've just read/seen in the media.

The so-called blunder of under/overpayments actually happens every financial year, its the way the PAYE system works, just as in self-assessment, some people are underpaid & some are overpaid. Its alright stating tax is complex, but we're talking about very simple stuff here, not complex tax legislation

I didn't see any evidence of reconciliation when working during University vacations. PAYE was deducted as though I earned the amount for the whole year, even if little or no tax was liable. Come April, I had to harrass the Inland Revenue to get a refund cheque, which usually took several weeks.

This year I needed a tax relief cheque, and sent the requiste certificates and covering letter early in April, only to be told it wouldn't be opened until the end of June. In mid July I was told the cheque had just been processed. It then didn't arrive. I rang them, quoting my address etc... as usual for DPA.

I became a little suspicious when I was then asked for my previous address (from 12 months ago). This was about the 4th call on the matter. For "security reasons" the call handler couldn't confirm what address the cheque had been sent to but agreed to cancel it and reissue it to the correct one and update my account with the correct address! After a further 2 months of more calls and broken promises that the cancellation and reissue processes have now been done - no money!

Then look at the likes of C & W and Vodaphone let off the hook for £bns that even they had set aside in their own accounts, either because the top brass are smoothing their next career move, or our tax system is so opaque they daren't let it be scrutinised by a court.

Harnett shouldn't be apologising, he should dragged by his ankles across stony ground to the stocks and given due punishment in the court of public opinion, followed by a charge of close to £5bn for the deal they did with Vodaphone, which would see him nicely out on the streets.

Grrr...

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  • 145 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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